AquaIllumination PAR Measurements

[CalmSeasQuest]

ACANs upcoming release appears to be their A109 which is a re branded eco-lamps.

"This model, like the A102, will feature bulbs that are similar to Cree XP-G, and have a unique 75 degree angle lens to increase the spread of the light. This powerful LED fixture will have enough output to meet the lighting needs of the most demanding SPS corals. In addition, a redesigned controller will allow the user to customize the intensity level of both the white and blue LEDs in all light stages. Pricing for the A103AC is $625 per foot. Further details will be announced on our site shortly!"

Not sure if they're revolutionary, but wider optics do provide more options for those that can't elevate the lights above the tank.

I raised my AIs to 16" ABW - I really prefer the clean look and obviously there is more than enough PAR

[CalmSeasQuest]

AquaIllumination has reposted their AI Vs 250W MH PAR comparison data.

[cvd55]

Wonder how long b4 plasma's will come out I know AI is working on it

[jcolletteiii]

I've been wondering if there is a way to estimate the PAR output under a single AI module for any given depth and at any combined output percentage of blue and white LEDs. I asked AI if there was a means of calculating this, and they responded that there was, as long as the 100% PAR value is known for the depth you are interested in calculating. The formula they use is quite simple: (PAR @ 100% * 0.65) * blue Percent (in decimal form) + (PAR @ 100% * 0.35) * W Percent (in decimal form) = scaled PAR (+/- 10%). They say that in their testing, this formula is fairly good at predicting PAR. So, for this formula to work, you must have a reference set of PAR measurements taken at all depths of interest. I just took teh measurements given on the first page for 6, 12, 16, 19, and 24" and extrapolated them by taking the difference and dividing by the number of bins between measurements. This gives the following estimated PAR measurements for every inch increment from 6" to 24" depth.

Par depth (in.)

1650 6
1603 7
1556 8
1510 9
1463 10
1416 11
1370 12
1256 13
1143 14
1029 15
915 16
840 17
765 18
690 19
664 20
638 21
612 22
586 23
560 24

So, if you want an estimate of the PAR at a given depth for a given percentage of white and blue, you just take the 100% par value for this depth, and multiply according to the given formula. So, for example, I want to know what the PAR is at 12" below one unit running at 20% white and 55% blue. So, I would use the 100% value for 12" depth, which is 1370, and plug the following into the formula:

estimated PAR at 12" = ((1370*0.65)*0.55)+((1370*0.35)*0.20) = 541

Of course, AI gives a +/- 10% margin of error, so the estimated PAR value should range from 486 to 595 at 12" depth with the settings mentioned. It would be great if someone with a PAR meter could confirm this estimate is valid. If so, this formula has the potential to help out quite a few people.

[meinestrasse]

Excellent post! Just what I have been waiting for. Now that we can figure out PAR values for a single pendant at various depths, could someone elaborate or direct us on ideal PAR values for optimal growth of hard/soft corals -- generally speaking? Like, at what point do PAR values begin to scorch and at what level are they not enough -- for hard vs. soft corals. This would help me to determine percentage of blue/white to maintain in my 39G CAD Pro using the AI pendant.

[jcolletteiii]

I would be careful about using this method until someone with a PAR meter can verify the method produces somewhat reliable estimates. Also, don't forget that the PAR numbers that I gave for 100% at incremental depths are ESTIMATED only, and are extrapolated between the 6 measurements given on page 1 of this thread.

[complete706]

im looking for maxspect g-2-400-160 or key led light k7236 where is the best location to purchase these items the best price with shipping

[reefsurfing]

I have a 90gallon AGA and with these AI's being par monsters I just dont see the benefit of putting 4 modules over my tank atm. I was thinking of EXPERIMENTING with just 2 modules turned long ways. There is a center brace so the openeings on my tank are 21"x15.5"! With 40 degree optics I figuresd about 16 inches woulld be an appropriate height with the light but wouldnt provide me with any over lap until about 6-8inches under the surface. Can I get any input from current AI users as to a possible outcome to this scenario?!

P.s. 95% of my corals run along the middle of the tank length wise; the lights would be directly over my corals.

[CalmSeasQuest]

Originally Posted by reefsurfing

I have a 90gallon AGA and with these AI's being par monsters I just dont see the benefit of putting 4 modules over my tank atm. I was thinking of EXPERIMENTING with just 2 modules turned long ways. There is a center brace so the openeings on my tank are 21"x15.5"! With 40 degree optics I figuresd about 16 inches woulld be an appropriate height with the light but wouldnt provide me with any over lap until about 6-8inches under the surface. Can I get any input from current AI users as to a possible outcome to this scenario?!

P.s. 95% of my corals run along the middle of the tank length wise; the lights would be directly over my corals.

I discussed the possibility of turning the IA sideways earlier in this thread. I believe it might be a viable solution as each unit puts so much PAR.

You'd have to work out a method of hanging them, and the cord connections would be visible on the ends, but I think it might work well. For comparison, I currently have my 2 AIs hung 16" above the water surface providing total coverage over a 24" tank. I ramp the whites to 45% and the blues at 100% which yields 400-450 PAR for my SPS (about 24" below the lights.)

If needed, you could move the lights much higher, I've had mine as high as 30" and still had more than enough PAR.

[reefsurfing]

Originally Posted by CalmSeasQuest

I discussed the possibility of turning the IA sideways earlier in this thread. I believe it might be a viable solution as each unit puts so much PAR.

Tom,

Thanks for taking the time to respond to my question about this "experiment". I was thinking more about my set up today and realized that if I asked you to raise your unit and power one module off it be a great base of determining if this is at all possible. Since the module is about half as wide as it is long I could just double the distance and that would be a decent indicator if this could work. Thanks in advance from all those curious minds out there, including myself.

happy reefing.

[NeonFish]

Originally Posted by ksc

You forgot, "Time to grow 1" sps frag to 4" mini colony"
Maxspect 8 years
AI 4.5 years
250 MH 1 year

Saving money is great but the idea of a reef tank is to grow things.....

My Acropora Valida is growing much faster that that rate.

[CalmSeasQuest]

Originally Posted by ksc
You forgot, "Time to grow 1" sps frag to 4" mini colony"
Maxspect 8 years
AI 4.5 years
250 MH 1 year

Saving money is great but the idea of a reef tank is to grow things.....

Originally Posted by NeonFish

My Acropora Valida is growing much faster that that rate.

I think all of us running AIs (and likely most other LEDS users) have completely debunked any lack of growth concerns. I have phenomenal growth under my AIs, far more than I had under MH/T5s. I do struggle with obtaining the best coloration on some items, but I'm hoping that will be resolved with the addition of some of the tri-color pucks when available.

[datagr1ff1n]

Im posting a link for the new AI Sol Blue fixtures

Love them....

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1893407

[jonnybravo22]

i'm having trouble with colors also. my "red planet" is growing but it's a pink planet at best these days. it had very dep color when i first go t it. plum crazy and joe the coral also lack vibrant colors they had at the store.

what PAR do you run fight on the corals that you have good color with?

what's your color combo these days? light cycle? thanks.

(it's got my considering a mh option, hoping i can just tweak it to get good color)

[wesley6610]

jonnybravo22, on the DIY side I have had the same issue with my orange monti cap turning pinkish under the LEDs, just not enough color, its growing good, just color is pale. So I'm adding some different LEDs (Neutral white and Red) to possibly excite some pigment change in the corals, because the cool white/royal blue alone aren't giving a wide enough spectrum it would seem, but the PAR is not the issue; it would seem that PAR at the right spectrum is key!

[Anemonebuff]

Spectrums are the answer. You have the same issue with MH bulbs of different Kelvins. My corals under 10K, 20K, and 14/15K all look different under each bulb. Different corals looked better under the 20K and others under the 14Ks.

[drtrash]

Might be too much light. My red planet was more pink and switching to a few lower par bulbs and raised the light red color is coming back. I am going to borrow a meter and get some PAR #'s for ATI T-5 for reference.

[jonnybravo22]

Maybe. But my light cycle is around 10 hours with max white at 40% at height of the cycle and 100% blue.

I'll try taking the white even lower...


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[wesley6610]

10 hours total or just for your whites?

[jonnybravo22]

Good point. Sort of like 10 hours of "real" lights on above 20% but also have had a phase in and out so tack on a few hrs either end at very low intensity like 5%. I've cut that out now.


Btw, I'm getting a PAR meter. Is the Apogee MQ 200 (with separate sensor) a good one to get?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CalmSeasQuest]

Originally Posted by jonnybravo22

i'm having trouble with colors also. my "red planet" is growing but it's a pink planet at best these days. it had very dep color when i first go t it. plum crazy and joe the coral also lack vibrant colors they had at the store.

what PAR do you run fight on the corals that you have good color with?

what's your color combo these days? light cycle? thanks.

(it's got my considering a mh option, hoping i can just tweak it to get good color)

Red Planet is my challenge piece as well. Some of my problems were a result of initially using way too much PAR (before purchasing a PAR meter.) I'm getting great growth, and colors are getting better, but I'm still not able to gain coloration's as good as when I was running MH/T5s. Based on conversations with many LED owners, I believe this to be a universal problem.

I was able to continue my conversations with Sanjay at MACNA regarding the missing LED piece. The current "best guess" is we're missing some red spectrum. There are numerous DIY test builds experimenting with different wavelength LEDs. I'm planning on experimenting with my Maxspect G2-160 as they are releasing a plethora of LED options that are plug-n-play. As for PAR, I'm using the beta firmware, ramping to 100% Blue and 47% Whites for about 10 hours at higher intensity. My SPS are 450~500.

Originally Posted by wesley6610

jonnybravo22, on the DIY side I have had the same issue with my orange monti cap turning pinkish under the LEDs, just not enough color, its growing good, just color is pale. So I'm adding some different LEDs (Neutral white and Red) to possibly excite some pigment change in the corals, because the cool white/royal blue alone aren't giving a wide enough spectrum it would seem, but the PAR is not the issue; it would seem that PAR at the right spectrum is key!

+1 We've got all the PAR we need, we're just missing a "spike" somewhere in the spectrum.

Originally Posted by jonnybravo22

Btw, I'm getting a PAR meter. Is the Apogee MQ 200 (with separate sensor) a good one to get?

I use a MQ-200 and like it BUT... I had long suspected the readings were under-estimating the actual PAR output, especially at bluer settings. Sanjay confirmed this. He estimates all PAR meters (not just the Apogee) are underestimating PAR by 10%~15% with the error rate increasing the bluer the light.

I've got a standing order (hopefully shipping this week) for 8 of the new SOL Blue pucks to mix with my existing White/White/Blues, hoping the Royal blues will provide a bit of an improvement. Wile talking with Chris at MACNA, I learned the new SOL Blue units ship with 70 degree optics around the perimeter (something to keep in mind for those that choose to upgrade.) I was relieved to see that the Cree Royal Blues are not as purple in appearance as the Semi-LEDs used in the Maxspect. The only downside is that to the eye, (visually only, they still pack TONS of PAR) the SOL Blues lack some off the brightness of the W/W/B pucks. It might also be partly due to the use of the 70 degree optic pucks.


I was also able to chat with Curt from Neptune and grab a couple screen shots of the new Apex VDM module that interfaces with the AI's including clouds and lightening. After reviewing all the LED options on display at MACNA (and there were lots) I remain convinced the AI's offer the best combination of power, quality, controllability and support.

[drtrash]

Tom,
Not that it surprises me but there is no metion to the 70 deg optics on their web, I have seen 40 deg not sure if it's liturature or the AI web. Very positive. I placed an order for 2 blue sol units. Might need a PAR meter to dial in. I would asume AI should have other color pucks in the works as well.

[jonnybravo22]

have you seen gasman059's setup? he has the AIs with a kind of DIY T5 supplement setup. has me considering giving that a try.

and what good is a PAR meter if it is inaccurate on what you're testing (BLUE LED LIGHT)!!!??

geez, is there no reliable measure?

by the way, my LFS happened to have a PAR meter and i had them check the output at the red planets they had there, deep red color and deep green base , same frag tank i got mine from. the par at the frag was only 115 (Tek T5 setup, mostly aquablue +)

so i thought that was interesting.

[jonnybravo22]

btw do you keep the lights on at night for moonlights?

i have started turning the lights completely off at night b/c i was worried that I've been bombarding the corals 24/7 nonstop w/ light, even though i had the lights down to 1 or 2% as moonlights.

i started to think (and maybe read somewhere) that total darkness is helpful for corals to recovery from a day of being bombarded with PAR.

[Revenant42]

Would it be possible to light a 95g mixed reef (with SPS 18" down and above) with two of these maybe turned sideways?