Why do you use a skimmer?

[xdannyxrocksx]

and i control the yellowing, the stink or anything else that can happen by cleaning my scrubber every week. If not maintained properly its will cause a stink and yellowing/greening of the water. Just if we leave our skimmers go and not dump the collection cup negative things occur.

[teesquare]

Well...let's be careful about "absolute" statements...

EX: Triple distillation, and some high end R.O systems *do* remove everything from the water.

And - I am not picking on you, or trying to take you out of context. Merely pointing out that in order to have a civil, and positive discussion, it will help us all to think - and write in terms of: In my experience...or - in my opinion...or according to this author....

It just will make for a better exchange of ideas, without being percieved as adversial to other persons.

Make sense to anyone else?

T

[xdannyxrocksx]

I agree did not look at it that way. makes perfect sense

[teesquare]

Just trying to help keep our playground a safe and fun place - so the police don't have to come and shut it down!

T

[RVANANO]

Wow!!! This is one of the most beautiful tanks I have ever seen!!!

Originally Posted by serpentman

Just to put my money where my mouth is, A Gratuitous FTS

[scubasteve06]

Originally Posted by xdannyxrocksx

and i agree with both of you guys, its about time people with sense reply. I agree its not a win for me yet. Like my first couple of posts stated, this is a new tank its only an experiment. It has been doing fine i have been seeing good results. All i posted was information and results by no means did i down skimmers, did i say they were crap. If u have a good balance skimmers are very succesful.

@serpentman: amazing tank, may i ask what is your filtration set up?

@uncle_salty: I agree with you, in other words when it comes down to it its personal opinion, not one is better than the other, one does what the other doesnt.

So I have no sense because I didn't type in "skimmers and why they are better than an ATS" and copy and paste everything I found. Yea that's sense all right....IBTL


Added: I want to see this awesome ATS you have and the tank it scrubs.

And of course if everyone let their collection cup overflow a skimmer wouldn't be worth anything, but thats the easiest thing about a skimmer. All you have to do twist and dump. No water change for over a month, set the cruise control and have a tank like serpentman all the while you are scrubbing the crap out of your algae sheet and performing multiple water changes. I think I'll stick with my skimmer, but then again I have no sense so what good is my comment.....

[frankpayne32]

Originally Posted by 121

LOL guys!

I was hella drunk when I made this thread (the room was spinning). I was thinking 'out of the box' (literally) and out loud, pondering what the skimmer is actually removing.

Reefs organisms get their nutrients from upwelling and predation. P04 and N03 gets utilized fast in this process. Corals like SPS rely on their polyps to capture zooplankton in order to get the limited nutrients available.

This is not the case in a closed system as the zooplankton is skimmed out, leaving excess nutrients that overdrive zooxanthellae and mess with the coral's natural balance.

IIRC, Steve Tyree has a skimmerless system, with a cryptic zone for export?

Their are a few fallacious statements here. First, SPS corals do not feed primarily on zooplankton (too big). I don't think they do at all actually. Phytoplankton, bacteria, and detritus are on the menu. I believe that even the phytoplankton is probably too big in many cases (correct me if I'm wrong please). Second, zooplankton are too large to be removed by a skimmer. You could perhaps make the argument that the skimmer's impeller destroys the plankton as they pass but I would doubt this has a large effect either. Third, it has been shown that cryptic zones do not export nutrients at all. In fact, cryptic zones likely remove far more beneficial substances than a protein skimmer.

[zygote2k]

I find this debate interesting enough to post about it.

I've used skimmers and ATS for approximately 20 years and have had great success with both. I have found that skimmers are the preferred method of waste removal with the least amount of work involved. This makes them great for lazy reefers and for maintenance guys like myself.
The ATS systems require a little more patience and expertise to get them to work as flawlessly as a protein skimmer. When they are 'dialed in' they work just as well as the skimmed systems.

FWIW, I can grow delicate SPS just as fast in either system. I'm adding the basic 3 part chemicals and using carbon in both. No more, no less.

On my current home system, I use a biopellet reactor, RDP fuge, and a DSB. Aside from some cyano outbreaks, this system is working as well as the other 2.

[Pallobi]

i would like to see some pics to back arguements as well... if you show me a pretty well stocked tank that looks great, ie algae on sand, glass, rocks, water clarity... then one will have a bit more of an arguement... again, i have NO algae scrubber experience and enjoy learning about stuff i dont know of... but unless backed with proof, it really has no grounding to stand on... jmho

[frankpayne32]

Originally Posted by xdannyxrocksx

. Skimmers do indeed remove alot of the nutrients that coral like to feed on.

Where are you getting this data? I would like to see some references to back it up instead of just conjecture.

[frankpayne32]

Originally Posted by xdannyxrocksx

you are welcome, im not putting down skimmers just found something easier that keeps my corals happy

I'm sorry but much of the information you stated is simply scientifically inaccurate. You are the one that does not understand what a skimmer does and does not do and you are the one that does not understand what an algae skimmer does and does not do. Algae scrubbers do provide some benefits, you just don't have a firm grasp on what they are.

And, for the record, I am in no way connected to the aquarium industry in ANY way and my protein skimmer was bought used for $20.

[Pallobi]

and also to add, my tunze skimmer which i paid 100 dollars for used, does almost jus as good as a job as my $500 dollar bought new reef octopus 300, and its (tunze) about 20% the size of my dual pump reef octopus... so its not a matter of my $1000 dollar sump... its a matter of finding a deal that works for you like frank jus mentioned with his $20 skimmer...

[frankpayne32]

Originally Posted by xdannyxrocksx

scrubbers have been bettered since the last time you checked into them problably cus my tank is neither yellow or grows my sps slow..this is the reaons why u clean the screen every 7 days. and the reason your local guys scrubber stinks is because he did not build it properly. not enough flow, doesnt clean the screen.

Please post up to date pictures of your tank to back up your claim.

[Pallobi]

for some reason i dont think we are gonna get these pics lol

[scubasteve06]

Where did the ATS guy go. He's like ricky bobby's friend in talledaga nights he's "The Magic Man", "Now you see him, Now you dont"!

[Pallobi]

maybe he is taking pics of his tank lol...

but seriously, i would love to see it, pics are "proof in the pudding"

how do we know what the tanks actually look like and the results you got without some sort of progess pics with equipment or some build or journal thread of some sorts...

[scubasteve06]

And to believe that it is actually his tank we would need him to write his screen name on a piece of paper and tape it to the glass on the front of the tank. This would keep him honest to some extent...

[Pallobi]

at this point, i agree... and the whole comparing water in a 5 gallon bucket, is really kinda silly... anyone can (and i am not saying he would) but anyone can put some fresh water in a bucket and snap a pic and say it came from where ever he wants to...

again, skimmers, unless you have a ton of knowledge, experience and you are ACTUALLY an advanced aquarist, skimmers are absolutly a must for water quality and stability imo...

unless you have like a smaller tank, and literally change half or more of the water weekly or more... this is jmo

[phenom5]

Well, over the years I've seen too many tanks that I thought were setup completely "wrong" to be successful that were beautiful, and I've seen too many tanks that were setup "right" that failed miserably to say one way is right or wrong. Lots of different ways to skin a cat...or run a reef as it were.

I think Eric Borneman said it best in his Aquarium Corals book, "There is no "right" or "wrong" way to manage corals in an aquarium, except in fully admitting that Mother Natural does it right...and we often do it wrong."

I use a skimmer because it's proven successful for me, and when I clean out the collection cup, I can't imagine leaving that stuff in the water. Stinky nog may not be scientific proof that it works, but it's convincing enough for me. Skimmers aren't the end all either. I still do regular water changes, I still dose carbon, and I still run a reactor. A skimmer is just one weapon in my arsenal in the import/ export war.

[Pallobi]

i am simply saying that a scrubber will not do nearly the job my reef ocotpus does... jus doesnt seem possible from what i have read about them in the last 24 hours due to my interest in this thread...

[noobtothereef]

Originally Posted by xdannyxrocksx

the reason alot of people dont admit they run scrubbers is because theres people like alot of people here that just talk crap because they are not running top dollar equipment. All of the info i gave came from a thread here i wasnt stealing anything its information given out to the public

Serously? I think the most favored threads on this site are the ones that spend as little money as possible having diy contraptions and ease of use, my favorite thread to date is the $2 skimmer thread

[frankpayne32]

Originally Posted by Pallobi

for some reason i dont think we are gonna get these pics lol

I think you are right... Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with experimenting. It's how we improve with time. It's just that much of the information being presented by Danny is inaccurate.

[frankpayne32]

Originally Posted by phenom5

Well, over the years I've seen too many tanks that I thought were setup completely "wrong" to be successful that were beautiful, and I've seen too many tanks that were setup "right" that failed miserably to say one way is right or wrong. Lots of different ways to skin a cat...or run a reef as it were.

I think Eric Borneman said it best in his Aquarium Corals book, "There is no "right" or "wrong" way to manage corals in an aquarium, except in fully admitting that Mother Natural does it right...and we often do it wrong."

I use a skimmer because it's proven successful for me, and when I clean out the collection cup, I can't imagine leaving that stuff in the water. Stinky nog may not be scientific proof that it works, but it's convincing enough for me. Skimmers aren't the end all either. I still do regular water changes, I still dose carbon, and I still run a reactor. A skimmer is just one weapon in my arsenal in the import/ export war.

Very well said.

[noobtothereef]

Originally Posted by RVANANO

Wow!!! This is one of the most beautiful tanks I have ever seen!!!

Seriously? Im a noob in it for 7 months and my tank looks better than that lol, obvioulsy you havent seen any of the other tanks on this site...

[bobbychullo]

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/2/aafeature

just reposting this link from serpentman from page 2 of this thread....

it seems as tho no one even read it in this thread. all this talk about what a skimmer removes from the water is answered quite clearly and scientifically in that article.

posting Q and A from some algae website without proper credit or footnotes is just poor debating/researching skills....