Ich POLL!

[Gogandantess]

Originally Posted by djze

i have had ich in my system for over 2 years and have added over a dozen species of fish 4 being tangs and not one getting ich i also have added an infested copperband butterfly to the system and it recovered and is thriving it's been 14 months since i added it i believe if you keep up good water quality & supplement with good food and vitamins the system will keep it under control and i might ad i have never ever seen any of my fish ever scratch or flicker against any rock

That's quite some luck you're having there. Hope it stays that way.

[reefmusic]

Originally Posted by Gogandantess

That's quite some luck you're having there. Hope it stays that way.

Alternatively, that info supports the older theory that ich is ALWAYS present. Those that think they don't, are simply in the same situation as this poster.

[djze]

3 years ago i did as most have done by removing all my fish from the display and letting it fallow for 10 weeks it worked out fine for a little while but all it takes is one slip up and bang your back to square one so now i just learn to live with it since it hasn't affected any of my fish i'm going to keep doing what i've doing by just letting it be but regardless of having ich or not certain species i still quarantine just to monitor and give them time to settle and acclimate properly

[RBU1]

Originally Posted by djze

i have had ich in my system for over 2 years and have added over a dozen species of fish 4 being tangs and not one getting ich i also have added an infested copperband butterfly to the system and it recovered and is thriving it's been 14 months since i added it i believe if you keep up good water quality & supplement with good food and vitamins the system will keep it under control and i might ad i have never ever seen any of my fish ever scratch or flicker against any rock

I hope my expieriece is just like yours.....

I added my Scribbled to the main tank this morning....My fingers are crossed.

[THEDLO]

Originally Posted by RBU1

I hope my expieriece is just like yours.....

I added my Scribbled to the main tank this morning....My fingers are crossed.

keep us posted!

[RBU1]

Originally Posted by THEDLO

keep us posted!

Yes sir, sure will....

I think I might break down my QT and leave things for a while before adding anything else to the tank.

[MrTuskfish]

Originally Posted by djze

i have had ich in my system for over 2 years and have added over a dozen species of fish 4 being tangs and not one getting ich i also have added an infested copperband butterfly to the system and it recovered and is thriving it's been 14 months since i added it i believe if you keep up good water quality & supplement with good food and vitamins the system will keep it under control and i might ad i have never ever seen any of my fish ever scratch or flicker against any rock

I think there is a good chance the CB didn't have ich, I'm convinced its often misdiagnosed. If it did, why would you add it to a healthy tank?

[nl146]

I voted no because I've never seen any evidence of ich

[TRIGGERMAN NYC]

I agree that ich does not kill fish immediately and they can survive with it for long periods of time. However I disagree that ich is in every tank. I have never had the presence of ich in a marine tank and I am thankful for that because it is apparently so much harder to get rid of than fresh water ich. I only got ich a few times in my cichlid tanks but super ich cure this blue stuff worked pretty well and it was only a few bucks at wal mart.

[THEDLO]

Originally Posted by MrTuskfish

I think there is a good chance the CB didn't have ich, I'm convinced its often misdiagnosed. If it did, why would you add it to a healthy tank?

what other parasites manifest similarly to cyrpt? you've said this several times can we get a comparison pic showing the difference. thanks

[MrTuskfish]

Originally Posted by THEDLO

what other parasites manifest similarly to cyrpt? you've said this several times can we get a comparison pic showing the difference. thanks

It just seems, to many hobbyists, like every white speck is ich. Other, (non-lethal) parasites, small wounds, infections, even tiny bits of substrate, have been mistaken for ich. I really don't know what the answer is; but IMO & IME, there are just way too many posts of very unusual ich appearances on this forum recently. The recent post, involving a supposedly ich infested Copperband into a tank containing tangs (If i read it properly) with no consequences is just hard to imagine. Although I don't keep a scorecard, it seems most of the ich being diagnosed is just based on a few short-lived white spots. The usual flashing, scratching, etc., just isn't mentioned. In short, again IME & IMO, I just don't think the stories of ich magically coming and going is possible. I do believe that many of the hobbyists making the ich assumptions either lack the experience or have not done the research to support these claims. However, I think their claims are sincere, just usually wrong. Again: the published and other scientific evidence just doesn't support these wild claims. The people like Fenner & Goemans have just studied this parasite too long and too thoroughly to be considered wrong; especially lacking credible studies proving them wrong---and there aren't any. However, this is far from 100% proof; I imagine there are a few cases of ich just going away (perhaps a pool of the parasites with a gene deficiency---an admitted shot in the dark, but it works as an example of the "possible"); but not in the number and the manner described by the folks on this thread. It's odd, that nobody has reported a tank wipe-out from ich. I know that is much more common than a sudden, unexplained, recovery.

[THEDLO]

Ah ok. Yea i was just curious if they were other similar looking parasites. what I've gone through was and is ich. I'm a little disappointed in my self that I didn't take any pics when my fish were infested. :/

I do agree that recently everyone has been calling any mark/bump ich. Scratching/rubbing is the second conformation I used when I suspect ich. I have noticed that fish that generally sleep in the same spot get it the worst. e.g. hippos, when mine would get it bad i would cover up its sleeping niche and after a couple days the second wave of parasites would not be as big/or as many spots. just my observation.

[MrTuskfish]

Originally Posted by THEDLO

Ah ok. Yea i was just curious if they were other similar looking parasites. what I've gone through was and is ich. I'm a little disappointed in my self that I didn't take any pics when my fish were infested. :/

I do agree that recently everyone has been calling any mark/bump ich. Scratching/rubbing is the second conformation I used when I suspect ich. I have noticed that fish that generally sleep in the same spot get it the worst. e.g. hippos, when mine would get it bad i would cover up its sleeping niche and after a couple days the second wave of parasites would not be as big/or as many spots. just my observation.

Another thing I can't figure out: why so many ich cases now and so little mention of Velvet? For most of my years in the hobby, Velvet was a much bigger concern than ich. I think its tougher to see & cure and kills faster, IMO & IME. You never hear of it on this forum though. I was at the best LFS within 150 miles a few weeks ago and fish in 3 tanks had velvet. They weren't on a central system and an employee got right on it. I know the owner and he said they have seen a lot of it lately, its always been a problem for them, but worse than usual now.

[djze]

i'm pretty confident i know what ich looks like i've been dealing with it for over 5 years the reason i added my copperband straight to main system was because i already knew ich was present in there and plus copperbands don't do very well in quarantine especially if there in bad shape and like i mentioned before if the system is healthy and matured it will over come the ich and i'm a firm believer of garlic & selcon use it religiously everyday

[djze]

one thing i have acknowledged is if your introducing a fish with ich and there's stress among the fish that are already in the present system they will most likely contract it to but if there's no stress among them then they don't contract the ich and that's why i've been so successful at keeping it at bay my fish are all peaceful with one another

[ocellaris123]

Originally Posted by MrTuskfish

Another thing I can't figure out: why so many ich cases now and so little mention of Velvet? For most of my years in the hobby, Velvet was a much bigger concern than ich. I think its tougher to see & cure and kills faster, IMO & IME. You never hear of it on this forum though. I was at the best LFS within 150 miles a few weeks ago and fish in 3 tanks had velvet. They weren't on a central system and an employee got right on it. I know the owner and he said they have seen a lot of it lately, its always been a problem for them, but worse than usual now.

I also thought of the same thing. People always say that ich as wiped out their entire system in a few days, but I have never had that happen when I dealt with ich. The only time I experienced a total fish stock loss was with velvet, and the velvet exterminated all fish life within 48 hours. Velvet kills fast ime, while ich does not.

[steelhead77]

In the past 6 months, I think many well intentioned, but misguided fish owners have killed more fish trying to cure ich than the ich itself has. This is what's so maddeningly frustrating for those of us who have managed to battle this with no treatment and have never lost a fish to disease. If you doubt that my fish had ich, go to the first page of this thread and have a look. If any fish should have died from ich, it was him, yet he's still here over 2-1/2 years later. I agree with Mr.T that many times it is mis-diagnosed and I believe that people end up stressing the poor things to the point that they end up dying more from stress than anything.

[reefmusic]

Originally Posted by ocellaris123

I also thought of the same thing. People always say that ich as wiped out their entire system in a few days, but I have never had that happen when I dealt with ich. The only time I experienced a total fish stock loss was with velvet, and the velvet exterminated all fish life within 48 hours. Velvet kills fast ime, while ich does not.

Except (according to http://americanaquariumproducts.com/Oodinium.html) marine oodinium doesn't

the marine variety (Amyloodinium Ocellatum) does not have chloroplasts to produce nutrients (via chlorophyll and light), thus Marine Oodinium does not take on the appearance of Velvet

So if we call it velvet, people are not going to come up with THAT diagnoses, and they'll call it ich.

[MrTuskfish]

Originally Posted by djze

i'm pretty confident i know what ich looks like i've been dealing with it for over 5 years the reason i added my copperband straight to main system was because i already knew ich was present in there and plus copperbands don't do very well in quarantine especially if there in bad shape and like i mentioned before if the system is healthy and matured it will over come the ich and i'm a firm believer of garlic & selcon use it religiously everyday

Selcon is a great vitamin supplement, garlic may help appetite. Neither will cure or prevent ich.

[syrinx]

Misdiagnosis is to be expected- but it many cases it makes little diffrence in treatment. Where it makes a major diffrence is when people decide its just a little ich and don`t treat. Big thing is-velvet and whatnot is usually seen during the qt period, when people should be prepared to medicate fish if needed. I have seldom seen a case of ooidum crop up in a tank years after the last fish was introduced- yet its common with crypt.

[Gogandantess]

Originally Posted by steelhead77

In the past 6 months, I think many well intentioned, but misguided fish owners have killed more fish trying to cure ich than the ich itself has. This is what's so maddeningly frustrating for those of us who have managed to battle this with no treatment and have never lost a fish to disease. If you doubt that my fish had ich, go to the first page of this thread and have a look. If any fish should have died from ich, it was him, yet he's still here over 2-1/2 years later. I agree with Mr.T that many times it is mis-diagnosed and I believe that people end up stressing the poor things to the point that they end up dying more from stress than anything.

Being lucky doesn't mean it's the best way to do things.

[MammothReefer]

I stopped stressing about ich years ago. If your water parameters are good, your tank is stable it's just a passing thing. I'll see a spec now and then, and when I first introduced my fish into this tank I had a huge out break.. I kept on like normal and it all passed.

Every fish in my tank had ich at one point (except my clowns) and I haven't lost a single one to it. The last fish I lost and blamed ich for was probably the first fish I had I'm I did 500 other things wrong at the time which was the true cause. There is no way I'm pulling apart a tank and setting up a QT for ICH. NO WAY. When you have a Reef tank you need to think of the health of the whole tank. I'm not going to disturb all my corals risk STN/RTN'n my sps, and stressing all my other fish for something that can be treated as simply as making sure your fish eat, and your water is clean.

[steelhead77]

Originally Posted by Gogandantess

Being lucky doesn't mean it's the best way to do things.

Whatever man. You don't know my tank or how I keep my fish. I seriously doubt luck had anything to do with it and I seriously doubt my situation is unique. But maybe I should buy a lottery ticket.

[steelhead77]

Originally Posted by MammothReefer

I stopped stressing about ich years ago. If your water parameters are good, your tank is stable it's just a passing thing. I'll see a spec now and then, and when I first introduced my fish into this tank I had a huge out break.. I kept on like normal and it all passed.

Every fish in my tank had ich at one point (except my clowns) and I haven't lost a single one to it. The last fish I lost and blamed ich for was probably the first fish I had I'm I did 500 other things wrong at the time which was the true cause. There is no way I'm pulling apart a tank and setting up a QT for ICH. NO WAY. When you have a Reef tank you need to think of the health of the whole tank. I'm not going to disturb all my corals risk STN/RTN'n my sps, and stressing all my other fish for something that can be treated as simply as making sure your fish eat, and your water is clean.

Amen, brother! My feelings exactly. Well said! Some people make WAY too much out of this.

[geaux xman]

man if you've never loss a fish to a disease, you have got to be one of the luckiest person in the world...

Steel, have you ever had any large angels?