Start up cost - Page 6

FindingEmily · 04/16/2016, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exsequor

Holy cow. I'm from california, but even where I'm from I can't imagine it being that high. Must be a San Francisco thing lol. I mean, afterall, for what you can get a studio for, I can get a mansion.

So there's bound to be a price difference for reef gear especially livestock.

I have $500 maaaaybe invested in my LED/PC 29g BioCube with 60 pound+ live rock. That is also including all gear and live stock including a 55w Orbit LED with remote control.

Heck, I've got a fully stocked 36.25x24x13 tank with around 80-100 pounds of live rock and 40+ pounds of live sand (probably more). I've got over 40 types of coral in the tank and 9 fish. 35 or so hermits, 12 turbos, 5 misc purchased snails, 6 nar snails, 4 emerald crabs, CBB shrimp, christmas tree worm, 3 large F.D., and I've got maybe $3,000 into it. Probably closer to $2,000. I'll have to tally all my receipts for it.

The tank is 6 months old, so I didn't just buy small frags, either.

Here's a quick pic:

I'm sure some of it has to be because of where I live.

leviburns89 · 04/16/2016, 07:17 PM

It's all relative. If you can wait long enough, a deal will show up. If you haven't already, join your local reef club. They can help you immensely.

But realistically, if you plan for $2 k, you should be very very well off. That price should also cover a nice round of corals and fish.

If you shop online, you can take advantage of the free shipping option most vendors have if you spend X amount of dollars, usually $150. With that, you could get a dozen corals, or half dozen corals and a few fish.

But if you go with the recommended 120, you will still have exceptional room for growth. Your biggest hurdle would be an rodi unit, and rock.

Live rock is preferred, but dry rock would be by far your best option. It all becomes live after the first month anyway. Craigslist is a great resource for this.

Next would be if you want a sump. This could take some planning.

I personally run sumpless and no skimmer. Yes, I have to do 5% water change twice a week, but for me, that's far cheaper than shelling out an extra $1k for skimmer+sump.

Remember, most of the products in this hobby have been invented within the last 10 years, yet this hobby has been successful for over 40. So most of it is merely for convenience, for the trade of cost.

Most people want something to look at with as little maintenence as possible. I don't mind spending an hour a week cleaning glass and changing water. So in turn, I save a couple thousand, which I spend on corals and designer fish. And in the end, we all have the same amazing tank.

If you're not lazy, you can go cheap. If you are lazy, you can't go cheap.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

Bent · 04/16/2016, 08:54 PM

I've kept track of my costs, and I just ticked over the 4K mark. And I'm cheap, real cheap. I'm also pretty handy with tools, and I DIY a LOT of stuff.

If you are really worried about costs I would go nano and be satisfied and save your money.

dbigfoot111 · 04/17/2016, 12:05 AM

i tried not to keep track how much i've spent total....i dont want to face it lol

Bent · 04/17/2016, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbigfoot111

i tried not to keep track how much i've spent total....i dont want to face it lol

I'm way too anal for that. I have to know every penny of outgoing expenses, no matter how much it makes me....clench it.

Salty168 · 04/18/2016, 01:21 PM

How much more would a sump setup cost. I was thinking just a hang on skimmer, but i don't know if one would work on my system. Would it work with my bio load?

leviburns89 · 04/18/2016, 01:58 PM

Kind of a loaded question. What do you want the sump to do exactly? And there are some hang on skimmers that work really really well. Reef octopus 1000 is a great option.

But a sumps main purpose is to increase water volume, and hide equipment.

A refugium is a completely different subject, and most times when people incorporate a refugium in their sump, they are simply wasting space as you need a substantial amount of macro algae to remove any phosphates. And if you split a 40b into 3rds, one mechanical filtration, one refugium, one for a skimmer and other equipment. This leaves you with only 13.3 gallons of volume for macro algae, in potentially a 160 gallon total system. So pointless in otherwords.

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davehead86 · 04/18/2016, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leviburns89

Kind of a loaded question. What do you want the sump to do exactly? And there are some hang on skimmers that work really really well. Reef octopus 1000 is a great option.

But a sumps main purpose is to increase water volume, and hide equipment.

A refugium is a completely different subject, and most times when people incorporate a refugium in their sump, they are simply wasting space as you need a substantial amount of macro algae to remove any phosphates. And if you split a 40b into 3rds, one mechanical filtration, one refugium, one for a skimmer and other equipment. This leaves you with only 13.3 gallons of volume for macro algae, in potentially a 160 gallon total system. So pointless in otherwords.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

Unless you are using the fuge to produce pods in a safe environment for fish to eat when the pods are finally sent up the plumbing to the DT.

leviburns89 · 04/19/2016, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davehead86

Unless you are using the fuge to produce pods in a safe environment for fish to eat when the pods are finally sent up the plumbing to the DT.

Correct, but that's not what most people expect from their fuge. Most people run a small fuge in hopes that the macro algae will out compete tank algae. Which, unless you have an entire sump dedicated to macro algae, won't happen.

But the as for keeping a healthy level of copepods and amphipods, they can be great, especially if you have a fish that eats microfauna exclusively, like mandarins and a lot of goby species.

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Salty168 · 04/19/2016, 08:29 AM

I was mostly wanting it to hide some equipment. So heaters and a skimmer. But I might just use a hang on skimmer.

leviburns89 · 04/19/2016, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Salty168

I was mostly wanting it to hide some equipment. So heaters and a skimmer. But I might just use a hang on skimmer.

If you do decide to have a sump, I would recommend an in sump skimmer. They work much more efficiently, and you never have to worry about livestock getting caught in the pump.

Personally I would run a sump, and use it strictly for housing all of my filtration. Run several filter socks, heaters, skimmer and a carbon reactor.

Since phosphate is such a huge deal that most overlook, it wouldn't be a bad idea to have 2 reactors, 1 set up with just carbon, and another to tumble gfo, or even better, a phosban reactor. These can all be found 2nd hand for fractions of the cost. Ebay can be a good source. Just keep in mind most equipment uses external pumps to power it, so you may find a super beefy skimmer, but will likely want to get a new pump to power it. But it could still save you several hundred dollars by buying 2nd hand.

You should also have a large portion dedicated to biofiltration. Such as a chamber full to the brim with rubble, or better yet, the square bio blocks which are essentially a perfect shaped peice of rock with super porosity.

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ComforablyNumb · 04/19/2016, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leviburns89

I would recommend an in sump skimmer. They work much more efficiently

Do you have evidence or a link for that? HOB skimmers work on the exact same principle as in-sump ones I thought....

davehead86 · 04/19/2016, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComforablyNumb

Do you have evidence or a link for that? HOB skimmers work on the exact same principle as in-sump ones I thought....

They do but HOB are smaller and have smaller pumps. This translates into less bubbles and less skimming being able to happen.

crabbydan · 04/19/2016, 01:09 PM

If you promise not to show this to my wife I will add up what I have spent.

Salty168 · 04/19/2016, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crabbydan

If you promise not to show this to my wife I will add up what I have spent.

Don't worry, It's safe with me. lol

leviburns89 · 04/19/2016, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davehead86

They do but HOB are smaller and have smaller pumps. This translates into less bubbles and less skimming being able to happen.

This is what I meant. The large sump ones move much much more water, and usually have much larger collection cups.

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ComforablyNumb · 04/19/2016, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davehead86

They do but HOB are smaller and have smaller pumps. This translates into less bubbles and less skimming being able to happen.

A HOB skimmer and an in-sump skimmer that are rated for the same size tank are equally efficient. One is not more efficient than the other.

jstack · 04/19/2016, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leviburns89

This is what I meant. The large sump ones move much much more water, and usually have much larger collection cups.

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disregard these comments on hob vs insump

jstack · 04/19/2016, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davehead86

Unless you are using the fuge to produce pods in a safe environment for fish to eat when the pods are finally sent up the plumbing to the DT.

still sounds like a waste of space to grow pods that I can purchase at any LFS for a couple of bucks

Salty168 · 04/19/2016, 04:24 PM

If hang on and in sump skimmers proform the same, then i will go hang on.

Mw1981 · 04/19/2016, 04:29 PM

Dunno if it helps but just bought all the equipment for a 40 breeder w 20 gallon sump. I have so far put about 1200 into it before filling the tank. that includes 40lbs of dry rock from a friend. I am still going to grab about 10# from tampabay saltwater for the live rock.

heathlindner25 · 04/19/2016, 04:35 PM

If you get absorbed into this hobby like so many of us do, it will eat up a decent amount of your available income.hth
My future plans are, buy a larger house with a basement , so I can do the sky's the limit sump,..see where I'm going with this. This bug can bite hard.

lpsouth1978 · 04/19/2016, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jstack

still sounds like a waste of space to grow pods that I can purchase at any LFS for a couple of bucks

A couple of bucks from time to time, or FREE constantly. I think I chose the initial investment in a sump (that most of us already invest in). I will not own another tank that does not have a sump, it is just SOOOOOOOOO much more convenient and much better aesthetically.

leviburns89 · 04/19/2016, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jstack

disregard these comments on hob vs insump

Do not disregard. What we've stated is true.

Here is why
http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/f6...ck-210440.html

http://www.3reef.com/threads/hang-on...in-sump.52600/

You should also consider this. Say you have to work late, or want to go out for a night or weekend. A HOB skimmer will overflow onto the floor, vs an in sump skimmer which will just dump into the sump.

Could save your flooring, drywall, and potentially a lot of money.

ComforablyNumb · 04/19/2016, 07:53 PM

After reading those two threads, I stand by my comment that a HOB rated for 100gal is as efficient as an in-sump one rated for 100gal.

You should also consider this: a sump is as likely to leak as a quality HOB skimmer is. Also, if you happen to get a skimmer overflow, the in-sump skimmer will overflow into your sump and all that gunk that was in your collection cup is then pumped into your tank. Not good! There are pro's and cons for each design. I had a major leak with my sump a couple of yrs ago so I just got rid of it... and haven't looked back. Running a sump was almost like taking care of another tank...who needed the extra work? Not me

This is one I have:

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/reef-o...skimmer-1.html

Great skimmer and well built.

*edit* pic of my 55gal ..you can see the skimmer intake and output in the upper right:

Cheers, Tim

04/16/2016, 08:54 PM	#128
Bent I got nothin' Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The anals Posts: 6,420	I've kept track of my costs, and I just ticked over the 4K mark. And I'm cheap, real cheap. I'm also pretty handy with tools, and I DIY a LOT of stuff. If you are really worried about costs I would go nano and be satisfied and save your money. __________________ Quitters never lose. [QUOTE=CStrickland]Who gets mad at a starfish?[/QUOTE] Current Tank Info: 75g DT, 30G refugium, 10g chaeto tank, 50g stock tank basement sump

04/19/2016, 07:53 PM	#150
ComforablyNumb Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: New Brunswick Canada Posts: 627	After reading those two threads, I stand by my comment that a HOB rated for 100gal is as efficient as an in-sump one rated for 100gal. You should also consider this: a sump is as likely to leak as a quality HOB skimmer is. Also, if you happen to get a skimmer overflow, the in-sump skimmer will overflow into your sump and all that gunk that was in your collection cup is then pumped into your tank. Not good! There are pro's and cons for each design. I had a major leak with my sump a couple of yrs ago so I just got rid of it... and haven't looked back. Running a sump was almost like taking care of another tank...who needed the extra work? Not me This is one I have: http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/reef-o...skimmer-1.html Great skimmer and well built. edit pic of my 55gal ..you can see the skimmer intake and output in the upper right: Cheers, Tim Last edited by ComforablyNumb; 04/19/2016 at 08:52 PM.

04/16/2016, 07:17 PM	#127
leviburns89 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 652	It's all relative. If you can wait long enough, a deal will show up. If you haven't already, join your local reef club. They can help you immensely. But realistically, if you plan for $2 k, you should be very very well off. That price should also cover a nice round of corals and fish. If you shop online, you can take advantage of the free shipping option most vendors have if you spend X amount of dollars, usually $150. With that, you could get a dozen corals, or half dozen corals and a few fish. But if you go with the recommended 120, you will still have exceptional room for growth. Your biggest hurdle would be an rodi unit, and rock. Live rock is preferred, but dry rock would be by far your best option. It all becomes live after the first month anyway. Craigslist is a great resource for this. Next would be if you want a sump. This could take some planning. I personally run sumpless and no skimmer. Yes, I have to do 5% water change twice a week, but for me, that's far cheaper than shelling out an extra $1k for skimmer+sump. Remember, most of the products in this hobby have been invented within the last 10 years, yet this hobby has been successful for over 40. So most of it is merely for convenience, for the trade of cost. Most people want something to look at with as little maintenence as possible. I don't mind spending an hour a week cleaning glass and changing water. So in turn, I save a couple thousand, which I spend on corals and designer fish. And in the end, we all have the same amazing tank. If you're not lazy, you can go cheap. If you are lazy, you can't go cheap. Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

04/17/2016, 12:05 AM	#129
dbigfoot111 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 52	i tried not to keep track how much i've spent total....i dont want to face it lol

04/18/2016, 01:21 PM	#131
Salty168 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 110	How much more would a sump setup cost. I was thinking just a hang on skimmer, but i don't know if one would work on my system. Would it work with my bio load?

04/18/2016, 01:58 PM	#132
leviburns89 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 652	Kind of a loaded question. What do you want the sump to do exactly? And there are some hang on skimmers that work really really well. Reef octopus 1000 is a great option. But a sumps main purpose is to increase water volume, and hide equipment. A refugium is a completely different subject, and most times when people incorporate a refugium in their sump, they are simply wasting space as you need a substantial amount of macro algae to remove any phosphates. And if you split a 40b into 3rds, one mechanical filtration, one refugium, one for a skimmer and other equipment. This leaves you with only 13.3 gallons of volume for macro algae, in potentially a 160 gallon total system. So pointless in otherwords. Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

04/19/2016, 08:29 AM	#135
Salty168 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 110	I was mostly wanting it to hide some equipment. So heaters and a skimmer. But I might just use a hang on skimmer.

04/19/2016, 01:09 PM	#139
crabbydan Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 267	If you promise not to show this to my wife I will add up what I have spent.

04/19/2016, 04:24 PM	#145
Salty168 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 110	If hang on and in sump skimmers proform the same, then i will go hang on.

04/19/2016, 04:29 PM	#146
Mw1981 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Dunedin, Florida Posts: 99	Dunno if it helps but just bought all the equipment for a 40 breeder w 20 gallon sump. I have so far put about 1200 into it before filling the tank. that includes 40lbs of dry rock from a friend. I am still going to grab about 10# from tampabay saltwater for the live rock.

04/19/2016, 04:35 PM	#147
heathlindner25 Moved On Join Date: May 2012 Location: flowery branch georgia Posts: 3,644	If you get absorbed into this hobby like so many of us do, it will eat up a decent amount of your available income.hth My future plans are, buy a larger house with a basement , so I can do the sky's the limit sump,..see where I'm going with this. This bug can bite hard.