Caribbean Biotope Seagrass Tank

[Michael Hoaster]

Right, nawilson89!

So, between Uronema and Darwinian Selection, maybe I don't want these fish. But I was really wanting to do a school of schooling fish, 'cause, s'cool.

So, what are my other choices? There's a few other caribbean chromises available, but they all get big, mean and ugly-compared to their juvenile selves. I considered getting Silversides. They're kind of plain, but a large school would look super natural! I wish there was a caribbean shrimp fish available. Those would be amazing in the grasses! But, those are more of a seahorse/pipefish, slow fish tank kind of fish, and probably wouldn't keep up at feeding time. The masked goby looks like a good schooler, but kinda small. I'd get a school of butterfly fish if I could, but I can't, with an anemone. I was going to add a school of chalk bass, but I think the grammas would fuss with them, from what I've read.

Oh well, I'm open to suggestions!

[sam.basye]

What about cardinalfish? No, not the two types that everyone has.. (PJ and bangaii)

Like twospots, barred, flame/red, and mimic cardinalfish? I really like the mimic, which is for sure Caribbean, and I really like the yellow/orange lined cardinalfish, but not sure if they are found in the Caribbean.

They only get up to 2.5" and pretty sure they school. Not to mention the bright colors.

[Michael Hoaster]

I considered the flames, but they get a little too big. I'm not familiar with the mimic-I'll check it out. What do they mimic?

[sam.basye]

Looks like they mimic the black-lined blenny. Unlike most cardinalfish that hover in place under a ledge, the mimic's are more active swimmers.

Being that cardinalfish are somewhat a nocturnal fish, I feel like they would prefer to hang around the root on the darker side of the tank which would be pretty cool.

[Chibils]

My mistake Michael! I did not realize you were referring to Chromis cyanea, since 90% of the time "blue chromis" just means C. viridis to people. You're probably much safer with the blue chromis, at least I would think you are.

Then again, having groups of chromis/damsels seems to be an issue for just about everyone. I think the idea of a school of butterflies is something we've all drooled over - shame about the 'nems though.

And the cardinals... They seem to have the same issue as the chromis from what I've seen. I've actually started a thread in the reef fishes board about this very issue earlier today, to see if there are any successful cases of people keeping groups of Apogon cards long-term.

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[nawilson89]

Michael, what about getting the Angel harem (Cherub I think) that you wanted?

[Michael Hoaster]

OK, Sam, so the mimic cardinal fish is more of a singular or pair bound fish, so not so much of a schooler. A small school of juveniles could work for awhile, but not long term. I'm really looking for something that will stay peaceful and stay in school. I might try a pair of these. They are pretty cool looking fish!

[Michael Hoaster]

Chibils, I'm glad you brought Uronema to my attention, regardless. So the blue chromis is still an option, but I don't want to see six die to end up with one.

[Michael Hoaster]

Nawilson89, I still plan to do a harem of around four cherub angels, but they'll be the last fish I add, so that's a ways off. Right now, I just want to find something I can get 7-10 of, that will peacefully coexist in a school, both as juveniles and as they mature.

Maybe my tank's not big enough. I was thinking that, with all the caves in the wall available, a school of blue chromis might not kill each other off, because anyone getting picked on could escape to safety. It's working with the grammas! I wonder if plenty of feedings would help as well. I would imagine some of the reported aggression could stem from competition for food, in lightly-fed reef tanks. I feed 3 times a day. I have no concerns about overfeeding, so that could help. Maybe my tank situation is different enough, that I could succeed, where others have failed? It doesn't seem likely, but there are a few success stories out there!

[nawilson89]

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

Nawilson89, I still plan to do a harem of around four cherub angels, but they'll be the last fish I add, so that's a ways off. Right now, I just want to find something I can get 7-10 of, that will peacefully coexist in a school, both as juveniles and as they mature.

Maybe my tank's not big enough. I was thinking that, with all the caves in the wall available, a school of blue chromis might not kill each other off, because anyone getting picked on could escape to safety. It's working with the grammas! I wonder if plenty of feedings would help as well. I would imagine some of the reported aggression could stem from competition for food, in lightly-fed reef tanks. I feed 3 times a day. I have no concerns about overfeeding, so that could help. Maybe my tank situation is different enough, that I could succeed, where others have failed? It doesn't seem likely, but there are a few success stories out there!

I would have thought your tank would have been large enough even for groups of fish at a max of 3 inches. If you were to do chromis would you want to do for more than 10? I don't have a source, but I remember someone telling me long ago that most chromis will kill each other off in small groups, but live better in larger groups.

[Chibils]

Probably prohibitively expensive, but Holanthias martinicensis is a Caribbean deepwater anthias that gets to a good size (~8in in the wild, probably 5-6 in aquarium) and is very comfortable.

Planktivores, so no worries about nems or sponges or corals. But since it's not regularly collected... Might cost a fortune apiece.


There's also Odontanthias hensleyi coming off the coast of Puerto Rico and possibly Curaçao. Same size, probably same rarity and cost. Also deepwater. 😕
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[nawilson89]

Originally Posted by Chibils

Probably prohibitively expensive, but Holanthias martinicensis is a Caribbean deepwater anthias that gets to a good size (~8in in the wild, probably 5-6 in aquarium) and is very comfortable.

Planktivores, so no worries about nems or sponges or corals. But since it's not regularly collected... Might cost a fortune apiece.

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I never even though about Anthias!

[Chibils]

Originally Posted by nawilson89

I never even though about Anthias!

After some more research, it looks like Pseudoanthias pictilis is a Caribbean fish! They're available from LiveAquaria and most LFS can probably get them in. Might be seasonal since they're not as popular as lyretails.

... These might be better since you've got a shallow seagrass lagoon instead of a deepwater NPS coral tank.

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[Michael Hoaster]

Interesting options, Chibils, thanks!

They're probably too big, and too expensive. Plus they are more deep water species. I'm really looking for common, cheap, bullet-proof kind of fish. I'm all about EASY.

Nawilson89, I was thinking a school of 7-10 fish.

[Chibils]

Good point about the easy, you've already covered that... 😁

The pictilis anthias are similar to any other Pseudanthias regularly available in the hobby. QT properly, prazi them, and make sure they get lots of food and they do pretty well. Some are harder than others but I don't think pictilis are one of them. And they're not deepwater like the others.

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[taricha]

The conventional wisdom is that a school of your chromis would whittle down to one over time.
There is a minority opinion that if fed in large enough consistently enough, the behavior changes and they do well together.
I saw this happen with firefish in my tank. One grew fat and was out all the time, the other hid in a corner and wasted away. Then I had to massively over feed my tank for weeks for another issue. Now they are both out equally and equally fat, and each have their own side of the tank.
Depending on your plans for your tank, you might be interested in seeing if this works with groups of chromis.

[nawilson89]

Taricha just reminded me. How about a school of carribean dartfish

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[Michael Hoaster]

Chibils, the Pseudoanthias pictilis available from LiveAquaria is not a Caribbean fish. No matter. They're bigger and pricier than what I want. Thanks for your help.

Taricha, that's encouraging to hear. It seems possible, that if there is plenty of food and shelter, they could be kind to each other.

Nawilson89, I checked out the dart fish at KP Aquatics. It looks like they are more of a mated pair kind of fish. Interesting that they associate with yellow head jawfish, even using burrows. That could be a cool pairing for someone into that sort of thing.

[Chibils]

Right you are Michael. I googled "Caribbean anthias" to see if there were any and got a hit on P. pictilis from http://www.freshmarine.com/pictilis-anthias-female.html where they list the range as western Atlantic and the Caribbean. More research on my end shows that what they listed is incorrect.

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[Michael Hoaster]

I watched a video of some masked gobies in a reef tank. They weren't schooling. They were scattered about, perching. Not too much excitement there.

I thought of another schooling fish possibility - the Sweeper. They're similar in shape to hatchet fish, but salt water and brackish.

"Characteristically shallow water, schooling fish (especially as juveniles), sweepers are nocturnal and seek shelter under ledges or in the caves. At night, sweepers forage for zooplankton, their primary food."

I'll have to read a little more.

[Michael Hoaster]

[nawilson89]

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

Oh! Did you always have codium or is that new?

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[Michael Hoaster]

The Codium's new! I got the fragments of one, glued them about.

[nawilson89]

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

The Codium's new! I got the fragments of one, glued them about.

Good luck with them. I'm hoping the piece I have does well too.

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[Michael Hoaster]