NEW plumbing method for an ULTRA QUIET REEF TANK!!!! LONG !!!!

[Hal]

I'll tell you how I did it, but not sure if it's the "right" answer. Put your emergency drain as high as you can. This will minimize the number of times that it is used.

The Herbie/gated normal drain can be any height lower than that. Personally, I'd put it as low as possible and then use my gate valve to regulate the height of water in the overflow. The closer in height that the normal drain is to the emergency one then you stand a greater chance of normal water level fluctuations rising to the level of the emergency drain. Frankly, I don't see why you need a stand-pipe on the normal drain at all unless you want to add a DSB in your overflow; in that case, the standpipe is used to get the drain above the level of the sand.

Having said that, I wonder if a Herbie drain with a taller standpipe is more/less/same stable in maintaining the water level in the overflow. My initial thought is that a low standpipe is more stable. This gives you more height in water column to self-regulate (taller water columns will great siphones that flow faster). I can't see any reason to have a tall water column.

So why do we have a standpipe in our Herbies? Why not just use the valve to regulate the water height?

[Snausy]

Well for me the reason is pretty simple. I have a 300g tank and my two overflows probably hold about 10 gallons of water each?(guessing).

When I hit standby on my RK it shuts down those pumps so the water in overflows immediatey drains into my sump. If the main drain is tall, then only a couple inches of water actually drain down into the sump. If I just had drain holes I would immediately get 20 gallons of water in my sump. I have a 100g sump now but when I was using a 40b it would overflow all over the floor.

I have my emergency drains right at the level of the teeth to my overflows and the main drains about seven inches lower. I keep my waterlevel right up at the emergency drain level with a slight trickle so I don't have to ever adjust the gate-valves and the water entering the overflow doesn't have anywhere to drop. Water level in overflows is 1/2 lower than in the main tank.

My tank is 31" tall...if I had my main drains as holes in the bottom it would sound like niagra falls when the pumps kicked back in. Sure, while it's running there is no difference. But when you feed twice a day or whatever the hieght of the drain makes a big difference in water to the sump and noise of falling water in the overflow.

[Snausy]

Originally Posted by cherubfish pair

What are people using for vortex breakers?

Depth. For me it's about seven inches. I have an adjustable, sliding top to my main drain that can rise and lower about four inches to get it just right. In the end for me it was just lettinng the water level creep up to the emergency drains then setting it there just BARELY positive flow so it doesn't creep back down.

[Snausy]

Originally Posted by cherubfish pair

Does anyone have these standpipes in their overflow with the Aqueon MegaFlow overflow system?

I think the pipe with the screen can be raised or lowered by sliding up and down. This can be used to fine tune the level in the overflow especially to find the sweet spot as to where the cascading sounds start from the overflow water fall. I would want the pipe at the bottom of this range to minimize noise but high enough to capitalize on the least amount of water to fill the sump when power is off.
http://www.aqueonproducts.com/assets...3794_400wh.jpg

I have a PVC fitting I got at Lowes that is basically the same thing. It has a sliding slightly tapered female piece that you can move up or down the male part about 3-4 inches while maintaining a seal. Makes it totally adjustable and I initially got it so that I could lower my main drain JUST enough to break the vortex. 31" of falling water is no joke when you are sleeping!

I can take a couple pics if you need.

[Snausy]

Originally Posted by Jamesus

This is exactly what I planned to do. I have a 180 duel cornerflow. I have a barracuda pump that I will be running up that back. I'll do two herbies and two emergencies that are dursos.

I have two questions. First, How far below the durso should the top of the herbie drain be?

2nd, can I plumb the two emergency drains together, and do I need any kind of valve on the emergency drain lines?

Ok first of all I'm confused. Why are you keeping the durso again? Get rid of it. Herbie is just straight lines with no fixtures. PVC straight up with a hole on the top. That's it. No valves except the gates at the bottom of the main drains.

Tying the emergency drains together would work in operation, but don't do it because the T is your weak point and a place where things can get clogged. Then both of your emergencies are out of commission instead of just the one that is clogged. Keep your emergency drains seperated so they can save your butt independantly of one-another.

My emergency drains are straight lines of 1" PVS open hole at the top, open hole at the bottom. Anything that get's sucked into the top will most likely come out of the bottom without getting stuck that way.

[Snausy]

Originally Posted by Hal

Can anyone point me to a solution to avoid having to constantly adjust my gate valve on the main drain? Every 2-3 days it seems like the water level in the tank is too high, or the water level in the overflow is too low. I'll turn the gate valve 3 degrees or so (i.e., a really small adjustment) to compensate and it fixes itself for awhile until I need to make the next adjustment.

The drain already has a T on it before it enters my sump. One leg of the T is an air vent (breaks the siphon?) and the other leg is submerged in the sump. For this reason I don't think it has anything to do with the water level in my sump.

I love my Herbie, but this is starting to drive me crazy!

Why in the heck would you have an air-vent? The idea behind the herbie is FULL SIPHON with zero air. An airvent would just screw everything up and make it loud? I can't help but wonder how you have your drain OUTFLOW plumbed...do you take it to the bottom of the tank? Are there airbubbles?

A proper Herbie has ZERO air...not just in the drains but in the sump as well. Totally submerged drains and totally submerged drain output. The sump looks like still water even though it's going at 2000gph

As for your balance issue, I just chose to let the waterlevel creep up to my emergency drains and have a very slight trickle down them. I'd say 99% of the water is going down the mains and 1% down the emergencies...but I never have to adjust anything.

[Hal]

I'll tell you how I did it, but not sure if it's the "right" answer. Put your emergency drain as high as you can. This will minimize the number of times that it is used.

The Herbie/gated normal drain can be any height lower than that. Personally, I'd put it as low as possible and then use my gate valve to regulate the height of water in the overflow. The closer in height that the normal drain is to the emergency one then you stand a greater chance of normal water level fluctuations rising to the level of the emergency drain. Frankly, I don't see why you need a stand-pipe on the normal drain at all unless you want to add a DSB in your overflow; in that case, the standpipe is used to get the drain above the level of the sand.

Having said that, I wonder if a Herbie drain with a taller standpipe is more/less/same stable in maintaining the water level in the overflow. My initial thought is that a low standpipe is more stable. This gives you more height in water column to self-regulate (taller water columns will great siphones that flow faster). I can't see any reason to have a tall water column.

So why do we have a standpipe in our Herbies? Why not just use the valve to regulate the water height?

[Snausy]

You posted the exact same post at 10:54 this morning and 2:52 this afternoon? The detective inside me wonders how that happened.

[Hal]

When I hit "submit" the first time my browser got hung up and then seemed to time out. I worked on some other stuff and came back to the page, hit resubmit.

I guess I just boosted my post count.

[Hal]

Originally Posted by Snausy

Why in the heck would you have an air-vent? The idea behind the herbie is FULL SIPHON with zero air. An airvent would just screw everything up and make it loud? I can't help but wonder how you have your drain OUTFLOW plumbed...do you take it to the bottom of the tank? Are there airbubbles?

A proper Herbie has ZERO air...not just in the drains but in the sump as well. Totally submerged drains and totally submerged drain output. The sump looks like still water even though it's going at 2000gph

As for your balance issue, I just chose to let the waterlevel creep up to my emergency drains and have a very slight trickle down them. I'd say 99% of the water is going down the mains and 1% down the emergencies...but I never have to adjust anything.

The herbie is a siphon until it hits the air break. The air break prevents the need for a baffle in the sump to counteract changing water levels and thereby changing backpressures on the siphon. I'm too lazy to install a baffle in my sump.

I don't like having a trickle down my emergency drain because that means that if my main drain had a full plug, the emergency drain might not be able to handle the flull flow (it would be a function of the main drain's flowrate which is a function of the siphon and the cross section flow of the valve.) Given how much I have the main drain restricted with the valve, maybe I shouldn't be worried.

[dg3147]

Ok, going with the herbie! My tank is 75g with my return being overpowered at about 900gph (this will be gated as needed). My Main overflow bulkhead drain will be 3/4" (with 1"pipe) and emergency bulkhead will 1".

I plan on sinking my main drain 1" into the sump water and the emergency drain will be above the sump water level (this will allow me to hear and see a clog earlier).

Question: if the emergency line is not submerged, than it becomes a gravity drain (vs high flow siphon). Will it be able to accommodate the flow?

[scottwhitson]

Has anyone ever had a flood with a Herbie style overflow? I am setting up a tank and only ran three pipes from the display to the sump room and I can't add anymore as they are buried under the slab of our house. I was going to use one as a full siphon one as an emergency and the other as the return. I just don't want a flood to happen.

[MattFrancis]

Originally Posted by scottwhitson

Has anyone ever had a flood with a Herbie style overflow? I am setting up a tank and only ran three pipes from the display to the sump room and I can't add anymore as they are buried under the slab of our house. I was going to use one as a full siphon one as an emergency and the other as the return. I just don't want a flood to happen.

If you have an emergency drain the only thing I'd be worried about is your sump overflowing. Make sure it can handle the water when the power is off.

[Jamesus]

Originally Posted by Snausy

Ok first of all I'm confused. Why are you keeping the durso again? Get rid of it. Herbie is just straight lines with no fixtures. PVC straight up with a hole on the top. That's it. No valves except the gates at the bottom of the main drains.

Tying the emergency drains together would work in operation, but don't do it because the T is your weak point and a place where things can get clogged. Then both of your emergencies are out of commission instead of just the one that is clogged. Keep your emergency drains seperated so they can save your butt independantly of one-another.

My emergency drains are straight lines of 1" PVS open hole at the top, open hole at the bottom. Anything that get's sucked into the top will most likely come out of the bottom without getting stuck that way.

Only my emergencies are durso. I tried having my emergency open but that doesnt work because the water coming over my overflow splashes into it. So it has to be covered somehow.

[Brycntif]

How do you prevent the emergency drain from becoming a full syphon when/ if the main drain gets clogged and overflowing the sump? Have it high enough so that a full syphon can not form, have it be a durso or 90 elbow with a air vent? I am planning on having a 3/4" pipe as the main drain and a 1" as emergency but have concerns that if the emergency drain was ever to be used the full syphon created would drain so much that my sump would flood. The only thing I can think to prevent that is to have the emergency standpipe very high in the overflow / have a air vent on it or should I switch to the 3/4" as emergency and 1" as main? I will have about 600gph after head loss on my return.

[DogueDeBordeaux]

Brycntif, that is good to have the emerengcy drain bigger than the full siphon drain. If the 3/4" full siphon drain gets clogged, the 1" emerengcy drain will handle it.
The 1" drain can not drain more water than the pump pushing the water back into the tank. So, it can not over flow the sump. It will just make the toilet flushing noise until you get the 3/4" drain flowing again.

[cdrewferd]

So how would you run this in a dual overflow tank? My tank is a 4' 120 with dual overflows that each have a 1" and 3/4" hole.

[DogueDeBordeaux]

Originally Posted by cdrewferd

So how would you run this in a dual overflow tank? My tank is a 4' 120 with dual overflows that each have a 1" and 3/4" hole.

I would use the 3/4" as drains. I would plumb them seperate with 3/4" gate valves, the Tee into 1 1/4" to the sump.
I would use both 1" as emergency (open) drains. I would plumb each seperate to the sump.

Using two 3/4" gate valves is a lot easier tuning the drains.

On the return I would just use something like a seaswirl.

[Brycntif]

Originally Posted by DogueDeBordeaux

Brycntif, that is good to have the emerengcy drain bigger than the full siphon drain. If the 3/4" full siphon drain gets clogged, the 1" emerengcy drain will handle it.
The 1" drain can not drain more water than the pump pushing the water back into the tank. So, it can not over flow the sump. It will just make the toilet flushing noise until you get the 3/4" drain flowing again.

Well I finally got my tank set up for a water test with the Herbie and it worked perfect with the 3/4" full siphon and 1" emergency. I tested the the emergency by placing my finger in the 3/4" drain and plugging it and the 1" was easily able to handle the 500-600gph my return was pushing and as DogueDeBordeaux said you will know if your main drain is ever clogged by the sound from the emergency in full use. Thanks!

[citodickson]

It has been awhile since I have been on here and I am currently beginning the setup of a 150 reef. After going thttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cbh14k2oMd8&feature=relatedhrough 20 plus pages of this thread still did not get a clear image of the bernie setup. Is this you tube video it in a nutshell with an extra non syphonned drain line? Also would I need my drainlines to be 1.5"

[citodickson]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cbh14...eature=related

sorry copied the link in the wrong place

[Patrick Cox]

Hello, is there any reason for me to use "Durso style" pipes in my overflow box. I am setting up a Herbie drain and was thinking about just using two open pipes but if there is a benefit to adding a T and 90 on top, will do so. I don't think I can glue these though because I would not be able to unthread my stand pipe from the bulkhead. There is not enough room in the box.

Thanks!

[Patrick Cox]

Sorry, double post.

[TheFishMan65]

You must have an open channel (dry). The other will be gated to create the siphon. The dry is the emergency incase the siphon ever get blocked.

[Patrick Cox]

Originally Posted by TheFishMan65

You must have an open channel (dry). The other will be gated to create the siphon. The dry is the emergency incase the siphon ever get blocked.

Thanks, yes I understand. I have not yet placed my stand pipes in the overflow. I know that my main will be gated and fully submerged in overflow water and the emergency will be slightly higher for protection. My question is - does it matter if they are both just straight pvc pipe with no elbow (just an open top) or is there an advantage to making them look like dursos?

THanks