Wet Skimmate Water Changes?

[Mercer]

Originally posted by JMBoehling
...What I do now is whenever my skimmate reaches 1 gallon, I empty the bucket (Skimmate) and add 1 cup of Salt to my reef (Along with Calcium and Magnesium). I am using a small fish net with the ultra fine brine mesh to hold the salt. I made a little holder that holds the fish net and salt in the overflow of my reef and SLOWLY mixes the new salt into my reef over a two hour time frame...

Jim,

Perhaps just an oversight on my part but one cup of salt per one gallon of water seems to be a bit much. Seems to me it takes about 1/2 cup of salt per one US gallon, give or take depending on what specific gravity you're trying to achieve.

Originally posted by KafudaFish
Just curious but does this method of continous changes alter the size of a skimmer on a tank? Could you put a skimmer rated at 200 galllons on a 500 gallon tank? The skimmer would still be a higher quality skimmer just smaller.

You could get away with a smaller skimmer right from the get-go without utilizing this wet skimming system. It's all about export. You will need to test your water parameters like you normally would to make sure they are in check. On a larger tank the only downside would potentially be wasting a little bit more water than you may have needed to. That's definitely not going to harm anything.

Originally posted by JMBoehling
I still keep the Venturi intake tube in my 5 gallon skimmate bucket so the Maximum skimmate I can remove via my skimmer is 2 gallon (Just in case my bristle worm or snails decide the breed and cause the skimmer to go nuts )

[IMG]http://i27.*******.com/16az2ac.jpg[/IMG]

Just for kicks I've attached a photo of my skimmer collection jar lid. It's a bit rough — you've been warned — when the jar fills it will trip the float switch, which in turn shuts off the skimmer & ozone. It's a bit more fancy than that (SMS notification!) but you get the idea, and can take it as far as you want. Yes, there is only one float switch. A possible nightmare. I do plan to add another one eventually, but so far it's pretty fool-proof. I like your idea of putting the supply line for your venturi into the collection cup, all but the idea of putting that garbage back into the tank. Yuck.

Awesome thread by the way. Great replies. Even better topic. :-)

[danreefman]

I love this thread gave me a lot of ideas, I like the disolving of the salt through the fish net. I'll deffenantly give this method a try. thanks everybody.

[MikeFisher1972]

Try a filter sock i dont knowwhat mircon but it will keep the water cleaner some salts leave a crust when i mix them for water changes but when i use a filter sock the rubber made contaner doesnt get dirty.

[gcwilt1]

is there any danger of removing too many beneficial trace elements by doing a water change in this fashion?

[EleganceMan]

i have heard from several people that wet skimming can be bad because it removes good and bad at the same time. What good does it remove and isn't that made up with coral and fish food feedings?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

is there any danger of removing too many beneficial trace elements by doing a water change in this fashion?



i have heard from several people that wet skimming can be bad because it removes good and bad at the same time. What good does it remove and isn't that made up with coral and fish food feedings?

I suppose it depends on what you consider good and what you consider bad (which varies a lot from reefer to reefer), but I don't see any substantial differences being likely, and there is certainly no demonstrated difference in what sort of trace ions are removed in wet and dry skimmate. Anyone who says otherwise is likely speculating wildly.

[Elliott]

Originally Posted by Randy Holmes-Farley

is there any danger of removing too many beneficial trace elements by doing a water change in this fashion?



i have heard from several people that wet skimming can be bad because it removes good and bad at the same time. What good does it remove and isn't that made up with coral and fish food feedings?

I suppose it depends on what you consider good and what you consider bad (which varies a lot from reefer to reefer), but I don't see any substantial differences being likely, and there is certainly no demonstrated difference in what sort of trace ions are removed in wet and dry skimmate. Anyone who says otherwise is likely speculating wildly.

good to hear from you again Randy, I was hoping you would see this as I'm doing wet skimmate water changes, it has had a positive impact on my water quality

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks. I'm glad to hear it is working well for you.

[JMBoehling]

Been a while since my last update. I'm continuing to remove 1 gallon of wet skimmate a day and everything seems happy in my reef as well. I did recently change to Reef Crystals from Instant Ocean so i don't have to add Calcium and mag to my scoop of salt I add when I dumpo my skimmate bucket.

As far as trace elements are concerned, I'm confident the 1/2 cup of new salt I add every day handles that.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I did recently change to Reef Crystals from Instant Ocean so i don't have to add Calcium and mag to my scoop of salt I add when I dumpo my skimmate bucket.

IO has higher levels of magnesium now, so that may not be as necessary:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1714505

from it:
.....................................Calcium ......Alkalinity...... Magnesium
Instant Ocean (new)..........400..............11.................1350

[jglackin]

Originally Posted by Randy Holmes-Farley

I did recently change to Reef Crystals from Instant Ocean so i don't have to add Calcium and mag to my scoop of salt I add when I dumpo my skimmate bucket.

IO has higher levels of magnesium now, so that may not be as necessary:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1714505

from it:
.....................................Calcium ......Alkalinity...... Magnesium
Instant Ocean (new)..........400..............11.................1350

It's about time.

Have you ever been able to hook up with Allen LaPointe?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

After I saw your initial email, no, we've not connected.

[Elliott]

Randy, this is a question unrelated to this thread but I don't know how to reach you otherwise, so I apologize to our readers...

can LaCl be safely combined with MgCl/MgS04? I'm dosing each and considering combining them, also, can acetic acid (vinegar) be combined with either of them as well?

many thanks!

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yes, all of those can likely be mixed OK. Lanthanum sulfate will precipitate if you make it too concentrated.

[Elliott]

Originally Posted by Randy Holmes-Farley

Yes, all of those can likely be mixed OK. Lanthanum sulfate will precipitate if you make it too concentrated.

thanks! could they also be mixed with a Kalk solution?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

No, aside from vinegar, none can be mixed with limewater.

[JMBoehling]

Update and a slight modification

Well I recently added a Reefkeeper Light to my setup. Main reason is I wanted a way to control my PH, as it would dip a little lower than I liked at times.. Well here is what I have done and it seems to keep things nicely in check, and compliments my wet skimmate water changes.

First the setup:

(01) Aqualifter

(01) Ph Controller (Reefpkeeper Lite for me )

Here's how it works. If my PH goes below 8.19, the PH controller turns on my Aqualifter. It removes saltwater from my sump. As it removes saltwater from my sump into my 5 gallon wet skimmate bucket, my kent float valve opens, and allows Kalk to drip very slowly at the same rate my Aqualifter is set via a Micro Air Adjuster.

Here are some picture of the results (6 hour results of my PH today)







I use a aqualifter prefilter so the diaphram doesn't get clogged



Here's the collection bucket. If anything goes crazy the venturi from my skimmer will suck water back into the fuge and stop kalk from dripping . I realize this is not optimal, and there are other ways to skin this cat, but this seems to work fine for me.



Another shot of the setup..



I empty about 1 gallon of water a day and simply add makeup salt via a net hanging in my sump...

Just hoping to give some of you battling eradic PH spikes with a solution that doesn't cost an arm and a leg..

Later,

Jim

[jonnybravo22]

question! i tend to agree with the logic behind wet skimmate being dirtier water than a normal water change.

by this logic, curious to know why some people choose to do very dry skimmate? i know it looks cool, but isnt it less effective just given the longer time horizon that it takes to pull stuff out / less volume it removes? just wondering.

[Elliott]

Originally Posted by jonnybravo22

question! i tend to agree with the logic behind wet skimmate being dirtier water than a normal water change.

by this logic, curious to know why some people choose to do very dry skimmate? i know it looks cool, but isnt it less effective just given the longer time horizon that it takes to pull stuff out / less volume it removes? just wondering.

wet and dry skimmate have different components of detrius which is why some people run two skimmers, one wet and one dry, however regarding the use of skimmate to perform water changes it is more effective to run your skimmer wet since it is being replaced with fresh seawater based on it's volume and not it's density

[fishoutawater]

I tried this weekend before last. Worked great. Changed 5 gallons in just about 12 hours. I could have gone wetter and done it faster but I wasn't in any hurry. For the next week I only skimmed out a quart of skimmate. When the weekend arrived I got setup to do another 5 gallons but,... no matter how wet I set my skimmer, I could only get about 1 gallon for the entire weekend. I checked airdraw on the skimmer and water output, everything seemed normal. I have a 40gal. breeder with about 60lbs live rock, about 50 gal total system volume, and 5 fish all under 4 inches. Could there just be nothing left to skim?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

however regarding the use of skimmate to perform water changes it is more effective to run your skimmer wet since it is being replaced with fresh seawater based on it's volume and not it's density

Sorry, I can't understand the logic. What does that mean?

by this logic, curious to know why some people choose to do very dry skimmate? i know it looks cool, but isnt it less effective just given the longer time horizon that it takes to pull stuff out / less volume it removes? just wondering.

If you are not set up to do it, then replacing the salt water frequently can be a pain, and dry skimmate is more efficient in terms of organics removed per unit of salt and/or salt water.

[Elliott]

I meant that if you are using skimmate to do for example a 10% water change, it would be more effective to run your skimmer wet to achieve the volume necessary as opposed to running it dry which would take forever

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Agreed. I just did not understand the mention of density.

[Gregster]

Just a question from a newbie here.
Is it possible that at any given time there is only so much skimmable organic matter in a system at a given time and in doing this concentrated waste/water change, what your seeing is just the same amount of skimmable organic waste as normal skimming produces with the exception that it is diluted by the extra water passing thru the protein skimmer due to it being dialed up?
ie; one spoon of instant tea can taint a lot of water.
I love the concept and have considered implementing it in a future system, but I can't seem to get past my thoughts on this being a possible illusion.
Maybe re-skimming the concentrated waste water again to remove the waste under normal duty thru the same skimmer might shed some insight as to what amount is really being removed compared to an average amount (same time duration) of standard duty skimming?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Is it possible that at any given time there is only so much skimmable organic matter in a system at a given time and in doing this concentrated waste/water change, what your seeing is just the same amount of skimmable organic waste as normal skimming produces with the exception that it is diluted by the extra water passing thru the protein skimmer due to it being dialed up?

That is certainly possible, yes. I can't see a downside, but there is little demonstrated proof (at least that I have seen) of how much more effective is wet skimming.