New EcoTech Marine Vectra Return Pump

[sbarkey]

Also, around the 21:30 he mentions they are already discussing connectivity with other controllers manufacturers but are looking at ESL right now.

[acesq]

Can anyone roughly calculate how long one of these pumps will run at say 100w on the battery backup? That question was not answered in the Q&A. Instead we got "it depends". That's true, but a range would be nice. Is it 5-20 minutes or 1-5 hours?

[ksed]

Agreed!
This pump is a game changer IMO.
The ability to send you a notification and being able to detect a Voltage drop in the power supply is IMO crucial as a return pump. That feature alone sells me on that pump.
Hats off to the Ecotech team.

Originally Posted by gcarroll

Add a pH probe and ORP probe and its a controller! That's why they should be worried. It already controls your lights, flow pumps and return pumps. Folks this is Apple 2.0. At some point it will just be easier to buy into the whole Ecotech Marine ecosystem.

And with that I bet Tim Marks has a big grin on his face!!!

[sbarkey]

Originally Posted by acesq

Can anyone roughly calculate how long one of these pumps will run at say 100w on the battery backup? That question was not answered in the Q&A. Instead we got "it depends". That's true, but a range would be nice. Is it 5-20 minutes or 1-5 hours?

I can't give you an estimation if I wanted to, because I simply don't have thee knowledge on how to calculate that. What I can say however is a slower GPH flow rate would mean a longer battery life.

Again, I'm sure you could calculate what it would be with the 100w figure, but I'll leave that to someone who knows what the hell they are talking about!

I prolong my UPS battery life by cycling the return pump every few minutes, so perhaps scheduled hi and low GPH ratings would prove beneficial?

[gcarroll]

Originally Posted by sbarkey

What about non ETM pump compatibility, Salinity monitoring, dosing pumps, and so much more that today's controllers can do?

I'm not for a second saying the feature set of ESL is not impressive, I'm simply stating that I would not consider the other companies doomed at this point.

Not saying the other companies are doomed! I'm saying Ecotech Marine has the potential to be a major player! And guess where that market share will come from? Look at it like this:

Apple gave us the iPod:
Some said it was a glorified mp3 player. The people flocked to buy. The PC manufactures were not worried.

Then they gave us an iPod in a phone and called it an iPhone:
The people flocked to buy. The PC manufactures were not worried.

Then they gave us an iPad:
It just worked with the whole ecosystem. Shared apps with the iPhone. The PC manufactures were still not worried.

Then guess what, people had all these apple products so when they went to replace their PC, guess what they are buying Macs. Not to mention how many businesses have converted to Mac. A little late for the PC manufacturers to be worried.

[sbarkey]

Originally Posted by gcarroll

Not saying the other companies are doomed! I'm saying Ecotech Marine has the potential to be a major player! And guess where that market share will come from? Look at it like this:



Apple gave us the iPod:

Some said it was a glorified mp3 player. The people flocked to buy. The PC manufactures were not worried.



Then they gave us an iPod in a phone and called it an iPhone:

The people flocked to buy. The PC manufactures were not worried.



Then they gave us an iPad:

It just worked with the whole ecosystem. Shared apps with the iPhone. The PC manufactures were still not worried.



Then guess what, people had all these apple products so when they went to replace their PC, guess what they are buying Macs. Not to mention how many businesses have converted to Mac. A little late for the PC manufacturers to be worried.

I won't dispute the possibility of ETM being a major player, they very well could be. But only for future controller purchases, and this is why I think that...

Mac has less than 10% market share, which obviously is lead by the commercial industry figures. But why is that? Most companies don't have the resources available to change their entire environment from Windows and don't try to secure those resources to make the change because there is not enough to lose by staying under Microsoft's thumb. Some companies run a hybrid network of coarse, and they may completely change over more easily. Though Microsoft's market share has dropped, they are continuing to adapt and grow with their demand.

Before you assume, I have had Windows desktops, laptops, Surface tablets, MacBooks, iPads, iPods, iPhones, and Android phones, and a ton more. I have worked for companies utilizing both systems. Can each solution deliver good results, yes, absolutely. Is every Windows person jumping ship to join Apple, no. Could they, yes. Could it go the other way, also yes. I do think Apple has the mobile market cornered, and Windows is playing catchup with their tablets with the knowledge that the world is going in the mobile direction, but that's how business works!

As long as Neptune and other controller manufacturers continue to make advancements, they will fare just fine. The Neptune Wav is one example of Neptune adapting to demands.

I think we have taken the thread off topic a bit, apologies, but I still don't think they should be worried at this point. Full controllers still do more than ESL and ETM still has a ways to go before sending them packing.

With that said, competition can't be a bad thing, as both sides will grow to be better in the process while we sit back and enjoy the benefits!

Happy Reefing!

[gcarroll]

Sorry I took it off topic but I wanted all to see where this is going. I have a habit of diggin up old posts of mine so I can re-quote them years later and say I told you so.

[slief]

Originally Posted by sbarkey

Not sure if this helps your question but at the 20:45 minute mark, he mentions you can "ramp the speed of the pump reasonably quickly" for the purpose of a self cleaning mode.

Perhaps that feature currently or in the future will bleed over into other features!

That pretty much answers it. It sounds to be exactly what I would have expected. Likely several seconds to get to full power which is normall for all these kinds of pumps. I will be at MACNA so I will be sure to inquire furter but my guess is that people will have them before that so I'm sure we will all know with certainty what "reasonably quickly" means soon enough.

[sbarkey]

Originally Posted by gcarroll

Sorry I took it off topic but I wanted all to see where this is going. I have a habit of diggin up old posts of mine so I can re-quote them years later and say I told you so.

Haha. No worries! Hell, if they become a major player, they must be doing something right compared to the current players and deserve some of my attention to see what I'm missing and possibly take some of my money! If the tides change and ETM is turning Neptune into a sinking ship, I'm not going to grab a bucket, I can tell you that!

[slief]

Originally Posted by gcarroll

In my opinion this pump is a game changer. I have no idea why anyone would want to use this pump using the WXM module. With seeing all the features that are available via eco-smart live, I think even companies like Neptune and digital aquatics, should be worried.

One good reason is for those of us that use pumps like the Tunze's might want to sync this pump up with those profiles so that a closed loop pump is sync'd to the wave makers or at least some of those profiles. This doesn't mean it needs to ramp at the same speeds but you can increase or decrease flow to coincide with various flow profiles. In my case, I have profiles that I use to flush detritus up and I have a profile for my RD3 closed loop to ramp it up to near full power during the flush cycles. I could also envision ramp ups and ramp downs that work in conjunction with my Tunze's during certain mode/profiles. As such, Apex compatibility for people like myself who aren't using Vortech's would likely be a prerequisite for closed loop applications.

By the way, great job on the recap!

[dailykos]

I'm not so sure this stuff is off-topic, or if it is, it at least is incredibly interesting and very much related to Ecotech's growing lineup of devices.

The point isn't to look at Apple's market share today and say it's a minor player. Not only has Mac share grown 12% in the last year (to 13.5% in the US), but every other manufacturer except Lenovo has actually dropped. Dell down 9%. HP down 7%. Etc. It isn't just that Apple took computer marketshare, but it eliminated the need for computers at all for many others by popularizing tablets.

Even worse for the competition, that 13.5% in market share represents 50% of industry profits. In other words, the competition is surviving via cut-throat pricing and razor-thin profit margins. The most closed and proprietary system in computing has built the world's most valuable company. It certainly is an attractive model to emulate!

In this case, you have Ecotech release probably the most important product in our aquarium, the return pump, and do so in a way that allows us to integrate it into a smart automated system. Now my return pump isn't currently plugged into my Apex because it doesn't need controlling, it's always on. But now, the Vectra gives me reason to want to plug it into my automation (notifications being the biggest, but also the easy-to-integrate optical water level sensors).

So sure, Ecotech still has a long way to go before it can match the functionality of an Apex, but it's clear that's the direction it's moving. It's also clear that Neptune isn't sitting on its butt, but heading down the same path with its Wav and Dos. It's probably working on LED lights in its RD department, just like Ecotech probably has a doser and heater and water parameter probes under development.

And if Mindstream ends up working and gets gobbled up by one of these companies? Look out!

So things are changing, and the smartest systems may be closed Apple-like systems, and that's not a bad thing for those looking for smart systems that work out of the box with minimal tinkering. As long as there are two strong ecosystems to choose from, it should help keep prices somewhat in check. Everyone else will struggle for the scraps.

So yeah, lots of interesting changes are coming to our hobby in the next several years. And the Vectra shows us how exciting that future will be.

[zachfishman]

Originally Posted by acesq

Can anyone roughly calculate how long one of these pumps will run at say 100w on the battery backup? That question was not answered in the Q&A. Instead we got "it depends". That's true, but a range would be nice. Is it 5-20 minutes or 1-5 hours?

Based on the Ecotech backup battery, which has a capacity of 18 amp hours at 12V...

You'd get a total of 6 amp hours at the 36V the Vectra pumps run at. So if 1 of those amps = 36 watts for 1 hour (watts = amps x volts), then running the pump for 1 hour at 100 watts would eat up 2.78 of those 6 amp hours (100/36). So the Ecotech battery should theoretically be able to run a Vectra at 100w for 2.16 hours.

Electricians please correct me.

[sbarkey]

Originally Posted by zachfishman

Based on the Ecotech backup battery, which has a capacity of 18 amp hours at 12V...



You'd get a total of 6 amp hours at the 36V the Vectra pumps run at. So if 1 of those amps = 36 watts for 1 hour (watts = amps x volts), then running the pump for 1 hour at 100 watts would eat up 2.78 of those 6 amp hours (100/36). So the Ecotech battery should theoretically be able to run a Vectra at 100w for 2.16 hours.



Electricians please correct me.

Am I correct in assuming that a lower GPH setting would produce a lower wattage consumption value and cause the battery to last longer?

[sbarkey]

Originally Posted by dailykos

I'm not so sure this stuff is off-topic, or if it is, it at least is incredibly interesting and very much related to Ecotech's growing lineup of devices.



The point isn't to look at Apple's market share today and say it's a minor player. Not only has Mac share grown 12% in the last year (to 13.5% in the US), but every other manufacturer except Lenovo has actually dropped. Dell down 9%. HP down 7%. Etc. It isn't just that Apple took computer marketshare, but it eliminated the need for computers at all for many others by popularizing tablets.



Even worse for the competition, that 13.5% in market share represents 50% of industry profits. In other words, the competition is surviving via cut-throat pricing and razor-thin profit margins. The most closed and proprietary system in computing has built the world's most valuable company. It certainly is an attractive model to emulate!



In this case, you have Ecotech release probably the most important product in our aquarium, the return pump, and do so in a way that allows us to integrate it into a smart automated system. Now my return pump isn't currently plugged into my Apex because it doesn't need controlling, it's always on. But now, the Vectra gives me reason to want to plug it into my automation (notifications being the biggest, but also the easy-to-integrate optical water level sensors).



So sure, Ecotech still has a long way to go before it can match the functionality of an Apex, but it's clear that's the direction it's moving. It's also clear that Neptune isn't sitting on its butt, but heading down the same path with its Wav and Dos. It's probably working on LED lights in its RD department, just like Ecotech probably has a doser and heater and water parameter probes under development.



And if Mindstream ends up working and gets gobbled up by one of these companies? Look out!



So things are changing, and the smartest systems may be closed Apple-like systems, and that's not a bad thing for those looking for smart systems that work out of the box with minimal tinkering. As long as there are two strong ecosystems to choose from, it should help keep prices somewhat in check. Everyone else will struggle for the scraps.



So yeah, lots of interesting changes are coming to our hobby in the next several years. And the Vectra shows us how exciting that future will be.

I'll admit, this brings up good points and is well said.

[zachfishman]

Originally Posted by sbarkey

Am I correct in assuming that a lower GPH setting would produce a lower wattage consumption value and cause the battery to last longer?

I would assume so, yes. I imagine that like the Vortech pumps there's a battery backup speed setting to allow a lower, energy saving speed when the pump is relying on backup power to increase backup power longevity.

[zachfishman]

Originally Posted by dailykos

I'm not so sure this stuff is off-topic, or if it is, it at least is incredibly interesting and very much related to Ecotech's growing lineup of devices.

The point isn't to look at Apple's market share today and say it's a minor player. Not only has Mac share grown 12% in the last year (to 13.5% in the US), but every other manufacturer except Lenovo has actually dropped. Dell down 9%. HP down 7%. Etc. It isn't just that Apple took computer marketshare, but it eliminated the need for computers at all for many others by popularizing tablets.

Even worse for the competition, that 13.5% in market share represents 50% of industry profits. In other words, the competition is surviving via cut-throat pricing and razor-thin profit margins. The most closed and proprietary system in computing has built the world's most valuable company. It certainly is an attractive model to emulate!

In this case, you have Ecotech release probably the most important product in our aquarium, the return pump, and do so in a way that allows us to integrate it into a smart automated system. Now my return pump isn't currently plugged into my Apex because it doesn't need controlling, it's always on. But now, the Vectra gives me reason to want to plug it into my automation (notifications being the biggest, but also the easy-to-integrate optical water level sensors).

So sure, Ecotech still has a long way to go before it can match the functionality of an Apex, but it's clear that's the direction it's moving. It's also clear that Neptune isn't sitting on its butt, but heading down the same path with its Wav and Dos. It's probably working on LED lights in its RD department, just like Ecotech probably has a doser and heater and water parameter probes under development.

And if Mindstream ends up working and gets gobbled up by one of these companies? Look out!

So things are changing, and the smartest systems may be closed Apple-like systems, and that's not a bad thing for those looking for smart systems that work out of the box with minimal tinkering. As long as there are two strong ecosystems to choose from, it should help keep prices somewhat in check. Everyone else will struggle for the scraps.

So yeah, lots of interesting changes are coming to our hobby in the next several years. And the Vectra shows us how exciting that future will be.

I agree. With the Reeflink they are setting themselves up for something like this.

[slief]

Originally Posted by sbarkey

Am I correct in assuming that a lower GPH setting would produce a lower wattage consumption value and cause the battery to last longer?

Yes, lower flow settings equal lower power consumption/wattage draw.

[ksed]

Yes! your set up works well but the Ecotech system works seamlessly.

Originally Posted by slief

One good reason is for those of us that use pumps like the Tunze's might want to sync this pump up with those profiles so that a closed loop pump is sync'd to the wave makers or at least some of those profiles. This doesn't mean it needs to ramp at the same speeds but you can increase or decrease flow to coincide with various flow profiles. In my case, I have profiles that I use to flush detritus up and I have a profile for my RD3 closed loop to ramp it up to near full power during the flush cycles. I could also envision ramp ups and ramp downs that work in conjunction with my Tunze's during certain mode/profiles. As such, Apex compatibility for people like myself who aren't using Vortech's would likely be a prerequisite for closed loop applications.

By the way, great job on the recap!

[Chris155hp]

So no apex wxm compatibility As of now???

[slief]

Originally Posted by ksed

Yes! your set up works well but the Ecotech system works seamlessly.

Seamlessly with what? Just Ecotech pumps and lights?? Clearly we have different definitions of seamless. My system works seamlessly via my Apex and I have virtually unlimited control over my flow and have created all kinds of profiles that are random throughout the day for both my Tunze's and my RD3 recirc pump. As it is, I have several different flow profiles that randomly change through the use of timers and OSC commands. I have profiles for waves, calm, detritus flushing etc. I have great pulsing profiles that are tuned down to the fraction of second for on/off times and pump output percentage for my tank that work amazingly well with only 3 Tunze's all facing the same direction. No need for pumps scattered all over my tank. Without a doubt, my flow setup works better than I could have accomplished with Vortechs via Ecotech Live and does so without having to have the drivers on the outside of my tank on the viewing panes. In fact, I don't even have wires visible in my tank for my Tunzes as they are routed through bulkheads out the back of the tank. Any 0-10v pump I add to my system can be integrated seamlessly without limitations. Yea, I won't get notifications from my Apex about pump restrictions but I know when my flow is working or not and I already have high level float switches in my sump that will tell me via email and text if my return pump goes out.

Seamles to me is having one application to monitor my entire system and control my pumps and powerheads, If that isn't seamless, I don't know what is. I have no need or desire to have two seperate applications such as Apex or Ecotech Live. That to me isn't seamless. That to be is the opposite of seamless. A single interface/application to monitor and control all things tank related is the epitome of seamless.

Edit: With that said, if I were interested in one of these pumps for a closed loop, a lack of Apex compatibility would be a deal killer for me. I'm sure others here with Apex's and the level of control that I have implemented would agree. There is nothing seamless about having multiple applications to control different devices. Central uniform, single point control is seamless. If I were a betting man, that functionality will be included in the not so distant future. Ecotech would be foolish to not offer Apex support in my opinion and I really doubt they would ignore the Ecotech users that use the Apex to control their Ecotech devices. The Apex user base including Apex users that control their Ecotech devices is way to big to snub those users with this new pump.

[tkeracer619]

This has me thinking... The flow and power monitoring is legit. I didn't see that coming.

[slief]

Originally Posted by tkeracer619

This has me thinking... The flow and power monitoring is legit. I didn't see that coming.

Without a doubt, flow monitoring, blockage monitoring and weak power supply notifications are without a doubt firsts and certainly not a feature that would be available via Apex and a compelling reason to use ESL. Power monitoring I get via my display. The rest of the flow stuff, I can easily create via profiles in a matter of minutes so having basic 0-10v or WXM support would be more than enough for most Apex users and the other details can be left to ESL.

That said, as much as I like to control everything with my Apex, I do like the features that this pump brings to the table beyond just the flow control aspects. They are really thinking beyond just the control factor with this pump and raising the bar.

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by gcarroll

Add a pH probe and ORP probe and its a controller! That's why they should be worried. It already controls your lights, flow pumps and return pumps. Folks this is Apple 2.0. At some point it will just be easier to buy into the whole Ecotech Marine ecosystem.

Maybe ... though with an addressable market about .0001 the size . Hyperbole aside, this is a really interesting pump, no question. I have a sizable investment in Apex, and while I'm not 'wedded' to it; it does what I need it to do and see no reason currently to change. So, WXM capability is important to me. Same kind of compatibility comments were made prior to the release of the QD vortech pumps and they ended up being compatible so I see no reason why this pump series wouldn't be also. But I guess we shall see.

FWIW, my application for this pump would be as a CL. Maybe someday as a main return pump, but for now I prefer the long-term 'set it and forget it' nature of my big panworld. Not saying lack of WXM as a CL pump is a deal killer; but I certainly removes it from the must-buy category for me; at least initially.

[reefwiser]

You also have Apex entering the equipment market with DOS and their WAV pump. To different directions of control. EcoTech building programable equipment. Apex building a programmer that controls equipment without any controller built in

[gcarroll]

I think we all can admit that adding only a pH and temp probe makes ESL a very capable controller. Correct?

After that, what happens when they start selling a smart switches power bar?

Keep in mind, you only need Reeflink to access ESL so the cost of the controller capabilities is very minimal up front unlike s traditional controller.

Folks, if they combine the probes into one product, they are one product from making ESL a full fledged controller. Add a powerbar and they are 2 products from making it a universal controller.

Guys keep in mind I am not an Ecotech fanboy. I own one MP10 that i won in a raffle. I have always been a Neptune fan for controller, Tunze fan for pumps and MH guy for lighting. Seeing the possibilities is making me an Ecotech fan and with the new tank build coming, they are having me rethink my build! I already have a Neptune Apex, Tunze, and Fluval pumps for my build and really, I can't believe that I am now on the fence.