N/P reducing pellets (solid vodka dosing)

[Redplanet15]

Whats the difference between the NP pellets and the NPX Pellets?

[DJREEF]

Originally Posted by Redplanet15

Whats the difference between the NP pellets and the NPX Pellets?

Different pellets made by different companies.

I know, it's confusing .

DJ

[DJREEF]

Originally Posted by rutz81

Just an observation about a month into using these. I had to remove my filter socks; they were clogging in less than 24 hours. Now I am trying to stop the micro bubble issue I am having since removing the socks.

Have your overflow empty into a clean big gulp cup and overflow out from there. It won't solve the issue completely, but it'll help. Also, you don't have to glue in baffles. Sometimes you can get the water pressure to 'hold' the pieces of glass in place behind your return pump. I have 2 pieces of aquarium top glass wedged diagonally in my sump that strangles about 95% of the micro bubbles in there. OK, one more thing - place a PVC elbow over the intake of your return angling it downward towards the bottom of the sump, and nose it into a corner (the furthest corner away from your overflow). The suction from the pump, and nosing it into the corner should hold it in place. Use the 45 degree elbow, not the 90 degree one - Depending on the pump it'll suck itself to the bottom of the sump. If you're running external, disregard the last part.

DJ

[amheck]

has anyone with a lot of hair algae used these and NOT had a substantial reduction in the growth? i.e. is everyone pretty happy with them overall?

[Yogre]

Originally Posted by amheck

has anyone with a lot of hair algae used these and NOT had a substantial reduction in the growth? i.e. is everyone pretty happy with them overall?

Thus far I have NOT had any reduction in hair algae growth. As a matter of fact, I have had to resort to dosing Algaefix Marine to try to get a handle on the algae.

I just completed an arduous 3 days of scrubbing the damn algae off every rock in the tank. 300 pounds of live rock, that's not a lot of fun. I'm hoping that the Biopellets will now be able to adequately compete with the algae for nutrients.

NO3 and PO4 have always tested as Not Detectable with Salifert, I'm assuming the algae has grabbed them up as soon as they enter the water column. I've been skimming wet and still running GFO/GAC; I've been afraid to stop for fear of being completely overrun by the nasty crap.

My Biopellets are tumbling gently in a 22" Geo reactor, output ducted to my skimmer's intake.

Thus far, I'm inclined to call my Biopellets a failure...but I'm not ready to throw in the towel yet.

[SimonSKL]

Originally Posted by Yogre

Thus far I have NOT had any reduction in hair algae growth. As a matter of fact, I have had to resort to dosing Algaefix Marine to try to get a handle on the algae.

I just completed an arduous 3 days of scrubbing the damn algae off every rock in the tank. 300 pounds of live rock, that's not a lot of fun. I'm hoping that the Biopellets will now be able to adequately compete with the algae for nutrients.

NO3 and PO4 have always tested as Not Detectable with Salifert, I'm assuming the algae has grabbed them up as soon as they enter the water column. I've been skimming wet and still running GFO/GAC; I've been afraid to stop for fear of being completely overrun by the nasty crap.

My Biopellets are tumbling gently in a 22" Geo reactor, output ducted to my skimmer's intake.

Thus far, I'm inclined to call my Biopellets a failure...but I'm not ready to throw in the towel yet.

I have the same problem with GHA and have been running BP since 3/22/10 in addition to GFO and ATS. I have not seen a significant decrease in GHA growth since the addition of BP. The only obvious benefit that I can see with BP is better water clarity. I feed my fish about every other day and I don't think I am overfeeding. PO4 and NO3 are both zero or near zero (< 0.03 ppm) with Hanna Phosphate Checker and Salifert kit. I too am disappointed not seeing some immediate and better result from the BP on my GHA problem.

I have about 750ml of BP running in a NextReef reactor and they are rolling nicely in the reactor. Output of the reactor is plumbed to the intake of the skimmer with a tee. Skimmate production is quite good and the collection cup is half full in 3 days. I use BRS HC GFO and replace them about every 3-4 weeks.

All my SPS are doing quite well with new tips coming out. I just wish the algae will just die off.

[rutz81]

Originally Posted by DJREEF

Have your overflow empty into a clean big gulp cup and overflow out from there. It won't solve the issue completely, but it'll help. Also, you don't have to glue in baffles. Sometimes you can get the water pressure to 'hold' the pieces of glass in place behind your return pump. I have 2 pieces of aquarium top glass wedged diagonally in my sump that strangles about 95% of the micro bubbles in there. OK, one more thing - place a PVC elbow over the intake of your return angling it downward towards the bottom of the sump, and nose it into a corner (the furthest corner away from your overflow). The suction from the pump, and nosing it into the corner should hold it in place. Use the 45 degree elbow, not the 90 degree one - Depending on the pump it'll suck itself to the bottom of the sump. If you're running external, disregard the last part.

DJ

Thanks DJ. I'll try those out, Do I really have to clean the Big Gulp? The Biopellets wont take care of a little Pepsi, too?

Or, would the added sugar in the cup provide an additional carbon source?? Just a theory..

Please dont take that seriously.

[Yogre]

Originally Posted by SimonSKL

I have the same problem with GHA and have been running BP since 3/22/10 in addition to GFO and ATS. I have not seen a significant decrease in GHA growth since the addition of BP. The only obvious benefit that I can see with BP is better water clarity. I feed my fish about every other day and I don't think I am overfeeding. PO4 and NO3 are both zero or near zero (< 0.03 ppm) with Hanna Phosphate Checker and Salifert kit. I too am disappointed not seeing some immediate and better result from the BP on my GHA problem.

I have about 750ml of BP running in a NextReef reactor and they are rolling nicely in the reactor. Output of the reactor is plumbed to the intake of the skimmer with a tee. Skimmate production is quite good and the collection cup is half full in 3 days. I use BRS HC GFO and replace them about every 3-4 weeks.

All my SPS are doing quite well with new tips coming out. I just wish the algae will just die off.

Glad to hear I'm not the only one... I have anthias so I do feed daily, but I don't think I overfeed either.

Definitely hoping for some help with the GHA now that I've knocked it down. Maybe a rabbitfish and a clean-up crew refresh will help as well.

[thenewone]

well i have had some interesting results in just 9 day of use my my nitrate i ahd none and stayed the same but my phosphates were .5 and (hanna) i have none undetectible also what ive seen is that my pellets are still white they havent changed color like the one ive seen here also my skimmer has been working quite a bit more hope this helps thanks

[mal1099]

Well im running the vertex bio pellets at 1000ml. When i started this about 2 weeks ago i had 5-10 nitrates and .01.I started with half the recommended dosage and after the first 5 days both went to 0. I also got a bacterial bloom for 3 days that did clear up on its own. I let it run for a little over a week and noticed my nitrates went to 2.5 but phos was still 0. So i added the other half of my 1000ml package. Best part i have noticed in my tank is i dont have to scrap algea very much. think i have cleaned from of tank 2 times in 14 days. I also noticed i had to readjust my skimmer cause running it dry was no longer working had to run it wetter then i normally would. I have a decent bioload and im very happy with the results so far.



My tank is still young but i love this product so far.

[mal1099]

I dont know about all of your bio pellets mine instruct to NOT use with other phosphate removing media..

[daveonbass]

Originally Posted by bluereefs

Dave does your skimmer produce more skimmate when you start to use bp? Do you see bacterial string inside the reactor or on bp surface? Do you see white bacterial strings anywhere in aquarium or sump?

No, the skimmer has produced the same or less. It started out less...after first introducing the pellets, and then finally it has ramped up to producing about the same as it used to. And no, to answer your next question, it is not any darker or nastier.

No, there are no bacterial strings in the reactor or on the BP surface, (the BP themselves).

No, there are no Bacterial strings anywhere in the aquarium or the sump...there never have been any since I started using the BP.

[daveonbass]

Originally Posted by mano84

Maybe you just need a little more pellets to make sure that it will lower the levels instead of just maintaining it or maybe it's just not lowering the levels as fast as you wish it would. If it is a matter of speed I think the lowering would become more noticeable the lower your levels become.

As an example, say that the pellets decrease your NO3 by 1 ppm/week, when your levels are over 10 ppm then that decrease would be very hard to notice over a few weeks but if your levels is at say 2 ppm then that same 1 ppm/week decrease would be huge. I believe that the speed would slow down a bit when the levels get really low but I still believe that it could be much more noticeable at a lower initial level.

Yeah, I have thought that maybe I just need more. In other words...if My tank produces 10PPM a day of NO3, and the BP reduce the NO3 in the tank by 9~10PPM per day...then ergo...I see no change and it's just a way to maintain my current levels. So my next (and potentially last) test of these will be to add more (yes more money) to the reactor...and see if they reduce finally, or if they STILL stay the same.

I don't think it's a gradual lowering, if anything it would be a gradual raising of the NO3. (like in the example above) My nitrates have not ever gone DOWN...they have only ever stayed the same or gone UP slowly.

So yeah lets now try to add more...hehe

dave

[Wd40]

okay well i dont know what to do hear.. im using the vertex biopellets.. i am using 500ml in a dual brs reactor..
i put them in friday night and the tank has been cloudy since saturday.. nothing seems to clear it up, tried carbon and a filter sock.. and nothing..
So what do i do? do i perform a water change? idk
the only thing i notice is my skimmer is pulling out ALOT of skimmate..

[DJREEF]

crap. I was hoping to start the Vertex pellets this weekend. I think I may have to put that on hold until I hear more input. I can't put the lives of animals that I have had for more than a dozen years in jeopardy.

DJ

[bluereefs]

Originally Posted by daveonbass

No, the skimmer has produced the same or less. It started out less...after first introducing the pellets, and then finally it has ramped up to producing about the same as it used to. And no, to answer your next question, it is not any darker or nastier.

No, there are no bacterial strings in the reactor or on the BP surface, (the BP themselves).

No, there are no Bacterial strings anywhere in the aquarium or the sump...there never have been any since I started using the BP.

Yes, that is what I though, from my expirience your bp as well as others reeferS bp who dont see any results are actually not "ignited", they do not work at all, you just fluidize plastic in reactor, same efect you will get if you put gravel in the reactor.

Sincerely I dont know why is that hapening and why some get them to work and some not, I dont think that is related only with NP bio pellets but with other manufactuer as well.

If they work you will see significant skimmer production, skimmate will be terribly smelling, foaming will be constant, when that is happening then bp are ignited and working, untill then they are just pieces of plastic.

And you will probably get cloudy aquarium, cloudines will last acording to nitrate quantity and nutrients load, from few days to few weeks. I dont see nitrate reduction without cloudiness in all of my aquariums and reading other threads in RC and other forums that is actually pretty normal.

I have similar expirience with one of my reactor, fluidized, with 1000 ml of bp, he just dont work, playing with him last 7-10 days with more flow, less flow, bp washing ... nothing get results. If I have low flow bp are clumping completly , just litlle more flow and no bacteria from them, they become ordinary plastic.
In same time my other diy reactor react to smallest change in nitrate level, I add nitrate , 5 mg/lit, to aquarium where he work and where he drop nitrate to 0,2, and imideatly he made cloudines and start to drop nitrates. So good working bp react imideatly to nitrates and can drop them very fast, from my expirience.

And is not related with bp amount or flow inside the reactor, I try all kind of changes with the non functional reactor without results, diy reactor where bp are ignited work with low flow as well with high flow, with 1500 ml of bp as well as with 700 ml of bp.

That is just my expirience with the bp in last 7 months in 3 diferent aquarium with 3 diferent reactors.

[Yogre]

Originally Posted by bluereefs

Yes, that is what I though, from my expirience your bp as well as others reeferS bp who dont see any results are actually not "ignited", they do not work at all, you just fluidize plastic in reactor, same efect you will get if you put gravel in the reactor.

Sincerely I dont know why is that hapening and why some get them to work and some not, I dont think that is related only with NP bio pellets but with other manufactuer as well.

If they work you will see significant skimmer production, skimmate will be terribly smelling, foaming will be constant, when that is happening then bp are ignited and working, untill then they are just pieces of plastic.

And you will probably get cloudy aquarium, cloudines will last acording to nitrate quantity and nutrients load, from few days to few weeks. I dont see nitrate reduction without cloudiness in all of my aquariums and reading other threads in RC and other forums that is actually pretty normal.

I have similar expirience with one of my reactor, fluidized, with 1000 ml of bp, he just dont work, playing with him last 7-10 days with more flow, less flow, bp washing ... nothing get results. If I have low flow bp are clumping completly , just litlle more flow and no bacteria from them, they become ordinary plastic.
In same time my other diy reactor react to smallest change in nitrate level, I add nitrate , 5 mg/lit, to aquarium where he work and where he drop nitrate to 0,2, and imideatly he made cloudines and start to drop nitrates. So good working bp react imideatly to nitrates and can drop them very fast, from my expirience.

And is not related with bp amount or flow inside the reactor, I try all kind of changes with the non functional reactor without results, diy reactor where bp are ignited work with low flow as well with high flow, with 1500 ml of bp as well as with 700 ml of bp.

That is just my expirience with the bp in last 7 months in 3 diferent aquarium with 3 diferent reactors.

I speculate that this is what is happening in my system. I have had a large amount of hair algae in the system. The algae and the GFO are probably more efficient consumers of N/P than anything living (or not living) on the pellets.

I should probably take a leap of faith and take my GFO offline, while continuing to aggressively scrub algae off the rocks, just to see what happens.

[daveonbass]

Originally Posted by bluereefs

Yes, that is what I though, from my expirience your bp as well as others reeferS bp who dont see any results are actually not "ignited", they do not work at all, you just fluidize plastic in reactor, same efect you will get if you put gravel in the reactor.

Sincerely I dont know why is that hapening and why some get them to work and some not, I dont think that is related only with NP bio pellets but with other manufactuer as well.

If they work you will see significant skimmer production, skimmate will be terribly smelling, foaming will be constant, when that is happening then bp are ignited and working, untill then they are just pieces of plastic.

And you will probably get cloudy aquarium, cloudines will last acording to nitrate quantity and nutrients load, from few days to few weeks. I dont see nitrate reduction without cloudiness in all of my aquariums and reading other threads in RC and other forums that is actually pretty normal.

I have similar expirience with one of my reactor, fluidized, with 1000 ml of bp, he just dont work, playing with him last 7-10 days with more flow, less flow, bp washing ... nothing get results. If I have low flow bp are clumping completly , just litlle more flow and no bacteria from them, they become ordinary plastic.
In same time my other diy reactor react to smallest change in nitrate level, I add nitrate , 5 mg/lit, to aquarium where he work and where he drop nitrate to 0,2, and imideatly he made cloudines and start to drop nitrates. So good working bp react imideatly to nitrates and can drop them very fast, from my expirience.

And is not related with bp amount or flow inside the reactor, I try all kind of changes with the non functional reactor without results, diy reactor where bp are ignited work with low flow as well with high flow, with 1500 ml of bp as well as with 700 ml of bp.

That is just my expirience with the bp in last 7 months in 3 diferent aquarium with 3 diferent reactors.

As much as I wish I could just believe that "mine are not turned on," I simply can't. My tank has been notorius for producing Nitrates and in a short amount of time. I used to do a water change only to have the NO3 pop back up to more than it was before in just a few days...less than a week. Even after removing many fish. Still the NO3 would climb fast. Since using the BP the NO3 has managed to maintain a level for much longer...with little increase over the course of a week or two. And I have made no other change...just the BP. My skimmer has always foamed both constantly and consistantly. It's a good skimmer and bigger than what I need for that size tank. so the fact that it's always performed well should not detract from the BP...they are simply being added to a working skimmer.

Lastly on your point, is that you claim that they are only "working" if the tank goes through a cloudy bacterial bloom. yet there are many cases where they have worked successfully and there was no such incident. So I'm really sorry, I hate so sound negative, cause I'm not, after all you know what has worked for you. BUT, I just don't see that being a "nessiccary" event to prove they are working.

So the facts still remain. My NO3 increase time has dropped. That seems like progress. Maybe not as much as some but it's still progress. My skimmer is still producing a consistant foam...so the BP haven't hindered anything there. I just don't see how EVERY tank can be fit into a one size fits all solution.

MY biggest theory is that again I either need just a few more pellets to go from holding the NO3's to finally reducing them...

...OR...

As stated earlier...a few pages back...maybe I will have more success if the BP are not fed directly to the skimmer. In other words let more of the bacteria flow into the main tank display, instead of skimming so much of them out immediately. I don't think this will have a huge impact...but who knows...it may be the "X" factor.

one way or another a lack of NO3 increase is a CHANGE from what whas happeneing in the tank. Now the NO3 is constat to where I manage to reduce it to my manual WC's. This was not possible before the pellets. So for now I will leave them on...(at least get my moneys worth till they run out...hehe)

[bluereefs]

Dont get me wrong, I am not bashing bp, I think they are very good product. I just made my observation from my expirience last 7 months of using bp in 3 aquariums. There was the theory that high nitrates cause bacterial bloom but recently there are many posts from people who use bp (and not only NP bp) in aquarium with undetectable nitrates/fosfates and still get bacterial bloom, some are come from the zeovit system and was already in so called ULNS water condition. So there is something what in some cases create that bp start to work imideatly and some can not get them to work for months. And I have both situation in same time. Maybe your bp at least hold the nitrates at the bay but seing what they can do when they are ignited then IMO that is very small percent of actuall bp perfomanse.
Reason for my posts is to try to find why is there so many different reaction/perfomanse from the same thing.

BTW I removed the bp from my first aquarium who had bacterial bloom and where nitrates drop from the 100 to 0,2 mg/lit, nitrates start to rise (heavy feeding) and after 2 water changes (30 %) nitrates are at 25 mg/lit and not rising, there is no bp in this aquarium 20-30 days

[nehemeth]

Hello,

So I have been following this thread a couple of weeks and have finally read through it all whew, what a long thread. Ok so I have not started using these yet, but I would love to on my new 125gal that I will be setting up soon. Dave I am not an expert and maybe this might be wrong but it seems since you have always had high NO3 and low PO4 then maybe thats the problem. It seems your tank might me releasing NO3 from somewhere, because I think you said you don't feed heavy. Something in your tank is goofy for your NO3's to be so high or it could just be the imbalance of PO4 vs NO3. So maybe if you got them balanced, it might even out. The other suggestion(your not going to like this) would be to do a complete check of your system, maybe scrub your skimmer down and check your hard to reach areas and just do a really good through check. I am not sure how hard that would be. But I do think these product works, but so some reason certains tanks are better suited for it than others for it to take off completely. But we have no way of knowing that because we don't have a template to work off of. So people who are successful with the product should post there tank specs before the NP pellets. Also state wether you are using the original np reducing bio pellets or the copycats brands like biobeads or whatever they are.

[bluereefs]

Here is skimmer picture from today, this is from working bp reactor, skimmer skimming all the time like that, there was no high nitrates in aquarium right now, water is still litlle cloudy due to experiment from 2 day when I add 5 mg nitrates to the tank, from my expirience that is the type of skimming when bp works.


Other aquarium where are the bp reactor who I can not get to work, 25 mg/lit nitrates, bp are on that aquarium for months, skimming is all the time like that


today I made one more experiment, I add bp from the working reactor to this, maybe they can ignite bp in this reactor, quantity of new bp are in the glass on the reactor, I removed same quantity out so there is no change in bp amount in this reactor

So people who are successful with the product should post there tank specs before the NP pellets. Also state wether you are using the original np reducing bio pellets or the copycats brands

Well I dont think my info will help you too much because my aquarium are almost the same, 2 are even same model, all use reef keramik, have same or simillar skimmer (super reef octopus) same return pump, similar light, only what made diference in my situation is my diy reactor he work in every aquarium regardless of nitrate/fosfate level,bp quantity or flow. I use originall NP bp, same batch.

[daveonbass]

is your DIY reactor the only one that is not directed at or near your skimmer?

[bluereefs]

Outlet from diy reactor go straight to the skimmer pump, if you can se on the picture , grey pvc pipe outlet from diy reactor are above the skimmer pump intake. But due to design aprox 50 % of the water go out from the open top and 50 % throu the outlet directly to skimmer pump.

[daveonbass]

dude, that wasn't my question. I know that the DIY has the open top, I wanted to know if the OTHER reactors went directly to the skimmer...in other words is the diy the only one that 50% may be exiting to the sump/display?

[bluereefs]

other reactors get outlet directly (as much are posible) to the skimmer pump