N/P reducing pellets (solid vodka dosing) - Page 72

bluereefs · 07/01/2010, 04:21 AM

Nice experiment Takayan, result show that bp can drop fosfate faster/more easy then nitrate. Also if I understend corectly you do not use skimmer at all? Maybe to get nitrate removal you need skimmer. Can you get some small nano skimmer and proceed further with eksperiment using skimmer?

DJREEF · 07/01/2010, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimonSKL

I thought I would post some before and after pictures of my tank. Started out with 500ml of BP on 3/22/10. Increased to 750ml on 4/28/10

3/1/10.

6/16/10. Notice I have moved things around. I also changed from 400W of MH to 230W of LED on 3/19/10. The SPS are doing quite well. The new light could be a contributing factor to the difference.

Evidently Montipora love this stuff.

DJ

SimonSKL · 07/01/2010, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJREEF

Evidently Montipora love this stuff.

DJ

Yeah, now I have so many of them I need to get rid of some or give some away.

TheFishMan65 · 07/01/2010, 11:56 AM

My understanding is that a skimmer is essential. The nitrate, phosphate and carbon produce a bactera. Three things can happens to this bacteria
1) It is eaten (good)
2) It is skimmed out (good)
3) None of the above so it breaks down for lack of food and returns the three chemical into the water. (bad)

SimonSKL · 07/01/2010, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFishMan65

My understanding is that a skimmer is essential. The nitrate, phosphate and carbon produce a bactera. Three things can happens to this bacteria
1) It is eaten (good)
2) It is skimmed out (good)
3) None of the above so it breaks down for lack of food and returns the three chemical into the water. (bad)

+1 on the above!

That's why I think the effluent from the BP reactor should be directed right to the skimmer so as much as the bacteria can be skimmed out immediately and not allowed to enter the DT. The bacteria are the nutrient export. Similar to ATS you remove the tuff algae periodically so they don't enter the DT.

tmz · 07/01/2010, 02:17 PM

I agree, generally, but would add 4 some bacteria can be pathogenic at some level .

daveonbass · 07/02/2010, 03:58 AM

well once again, my effluent IS the feed line for the skimmer, and I've seen very litle from these pellets.

so I am now wondering a few different things.

- do the successful systems have light in the area of the BP? My sump area has no light on it ever. It's always dark, could the bacteria be dependent on some light?
- does some of the effluent need to got back to the sump in order return to the DT? Cause in my system of having it go to the skimmer first, it's not working.
- do all successful reactors have "stuff" growing visibly on the BP? My pellets look the same as they did the day I started them.
- do the BP really need to tumble at all? Wouldn't excess growth of bacteria get sloughed off anyways? Isn't that why it's called "excess"?

anyone else figured out how to "activate" the BP to work more effectively?

Timoweb · 07/02/2010, 04:19 AM

Time for a change, added some biologically degradable polymer pellets and removed the zeo stones. The brand of pellet is N/P Biopellets.

3 days later I gave the pellets a shake and lots for white dust come off and the skimmate is much more foamy especially the the stuff that's gone over the side of the cup, I always have very good skimmate with Zeo but this does look different.

No cloud storms in the tank just slight white dust floating about after a shake, even though the reactor is directed to the skimmer a little of the dust escapes to the main tank.
I think they are working, I hope they are working lol

Timoweb · 07/02/2010, 05:15 AM

Found some older pics. This is how my skimmate looked when running Zeo, very good but its different now and the only thing I have changed is the stones for pellets.

Before;

And now;

daveonbass · 07/02/2010, 05:23 AM

uhhh...am I the only one that thinks the zeo skimmer results looked better?

rutz81 · 07/02/2010, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveonbass

uhhh...am i the only one that thinks the zeo skimmer results looked better?

+1

Timoweb · 07/02/2010, 07:11 AM

It was not the quality of the skimmate that I was looking at more that the pellets are actually working.

From the pics I would guess so, do you think they are?

rutz81 · 07/02/2010, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timoweb

It was not the quality of the skimmate that I was looking at more that the pellets are actually working.

From the pics I would guess so, do you think they are?

Its hard to say after only 3 days. You could still be skimming out stuff left from your Zeo stones. I think, from the instructions, the pellets take like 2/3 weeks to establish a bacteria population.

Timoweb · 07/02/2010, 07:24 AM

I have also been dosing 5 drops of Zeobac per night straight into the reactor with the pellets. I am planning on adding the bac each night just for 2 more nights then just once a week and after a water change.

NexDog · 07/02/2010, 07:48 AM

How does this differ from a nitrate reactor using sulphur beads?

bluereefs · 07/02/2010, 07:49 AM

Well is 48 hours from my last experiment where I add so called "ignited" bp to my fluid reactor where are bp who do not work. New bp did not create bacterial bloom in that reactor/aquarium but create much more bacteria inside the reactor, that made another issue, bp get clumped/solidize very fast and even with the strongest flow throu reactor they sit on the bottom and there is visiblle only one "chanel" where water pass, the rest (aprox 80 % of bp) are still and clumped. I need to mix them daily with the stick to made them fluidized what is anoying because I need to open the fluid reactor each day. Skimming get litlle better but all of that is not even close to efects I get with my diy reactor. Well at least I get much more bacteria inside the reactor so finally they do something.

I move that , now semy functional reactor to different aquarium and instead of him put my diy reactor (bacterial machine) in that aquarium. This time I try to avoid bacterial bloom and I use only very litlle amount of bp, only aprox 300-400 ml (on 150 g aquarium) also that are old bio pellets who work for months and already created 3 bacterial bloom, so many of bp granules are very tinny or look like empty shell. I alse washed all bacteria strings from complete reactor, actually cleaned him competly with shower except bp , did not touch them. Flow was also litlle slowed. After 12 hours skimming are much more stronger, there is trace of bacteria string on the aquarium glass and inside the reactor.Preliminary conclusion, my diy reactor do more in 12 hours with very small amount of already used bp then standard fluid reactor with 1000 ml of bp for months. Well at least I have one miracle reactor and can switch him from aquarium to aquarium as are needed.

here are the pictures
diy reactor instead of old

This is very interesting for me, bp in this reactor are almost completly white and clean

skimmer this morning

bacteria string on the glass

rick12 · 07/02/2010, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timoweb

I have also been dosing 5 drops of Zeobac per night straight into the reactor with the pellets. I am planning on adding the bac each night just for 2 more nights then just once a week and after a water change.

this sounds like a good idea for those who are using Zeovit as well as pellets. makes sense. just like changing the zeo-stones (adding pellets) bac is needed daily for 7-10 days.

camoausreefer · 07/02/2010, 04:37 PM

I'm into day 5 of my BP the 2nd day water was crystal clear, 3rd day my water went cloudy so I put the reactor on the back of my over flow as my skimmer is fed directly from the syphon. Now day 5 and still cloudy water there was some BP that came out of the reactor and are in a hard to Reach place. I have been using prodibio for 3momths my p04 was 0.04 but could not bring nitrate down any thoughts on why this could be happening?
Thanks

camoausreefer · 07/02/2010, 04:46 PM

I'm into day 5 of my BP the 2nd day water was crystal clear, 3rd day my water went cloudy so I put the reactor on the back of my over flow as my skimmer is fed directly from the syphon. Now day 5 and still cloudy water there was some BP that came out of the reactor and are in a hard to Reach place. I have been using prodibio for 3momths my p04 was 0.04 but could not bring nitrate down any thoughts on why this could be happening?
Thanks

rutz81 · 07/03/2010, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camoausreefer

I'm into day 5 of my BP the 2nd day water was crystal clear, 3rd day my water went cloudy so I put the reactor on the back of my over flow as my skimmer is fed directly from the syphon. Now day 5 and still cloudy water there was some BP that came out of the reactor and are in a hard to Reach place. I have been using prodibio for 3momths my p04 was 0.04 but could not bring nitrate down any thoughts on why this could be happening?
Thanks

What type of reactor/pump?

Yogre · 07/03/2010, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NexDog

How does this differ from a nitrate reactor using sulphur beads?

Sulfur denitrator is using low flow and hosting anaerobic bacteria to reduce nitrate to nitrogen. I don't believe it has any impact on PO4.

Biopellets theoretically are using aerobic bacteria which assilimilate both N and P into their structures.

camoausreefer · 07/03/2010, 07:57 AM

I'm using a 2000lhr feed pump with a tap on a reef octopus phosphate reactor.

Tony Romano · 07/03/2010, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camoausreefer

I'm into day 5 of my BP the 2nd day water was crystal clear, 3rd day my water went cloudy so I put the reactor on the back of my over flow as my skimmer is fed directly from the syphon. Now day 5 and still cloudy water there was some BP that came out of the reactor and are in a hard to Reach place. I have been using prodibio for 3momths my p04 was 0.04 but could not bring nitrate down any thoughts on why this could be happening?
Thanks

What is NO3 level? It takes much effort to get >5 ppm has been my experience. I feed heavy and have 8 fish in 300 total gallons. You may need a Sulpur reactor to target NO3.

camoausreefer · 07/03/2010, 08:06 AM

I'm using a 2000lhr feed pump with a tap on a reef octopus phosphate reactor.

camoausreefer · 07/03/2010, 08:10 AM

Sorry about the double posting damn iphones it's about 2-5ppm not really worried as I have great colour the main reason I started the pellets is because i have been batteling cyano for the last 6 months. Water is starting to clear on day 6

07/01/2010, 02:17 PM	#1781
tmz ReefKeeping Mag staff Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: West Seneca NY Posts: 27,691	I agree, generally, but would add 4 some bacteria can be pathogenic at some level . __________________ Tom Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.

07/02/2010, 03:58 AM	#1782
daveonbass Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: texarkana, TX Posts: 1,364	well once again, my effluent IS the feed line for the skimmer, and I've seen very litle from these pellets. so I am now wondering a few different things. - do the successful systems have light in the area of the BP? My sump area has no light on it ever. It's always dark, could the bacteria be dependent on some light? - does some of the effluent need to got back to the sump in order return to the DT? Cause in my system of having it go to the skimmer first, it's not working. - do all successful reactors have "stuff" growing visibly on the BP? My pellets look the same as they did the day I started them. - do the BP really need to tumble at all? Wouldn't excess growth of bacteria get sloughed off anyways? Isn't that why it's called "excess"? anyone else figured out how to "activate" the BP to work more effectively? __________________ dave Current Tank Info: 58g reef, 60 total gallons including rocks and sand, 36" 6 bulb ATI Powermodule, DAS skimmer, Bio pellets, 2 MP10 vortechs

07/02/2010, 05:23 AM	#1785
daveonbass Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: texarkana, TX Posts: 1,364	uhhh...am I the only one that thinks the zeo skimmer results looked better? __________________ dave Current Tank Info: 58g reef, 60 total gallons including rocks and sand, 36" 6 bulb ATI Powermodule, DAS skimmer, Bio pellets, 2 MP10 vortechs

07/02/2010, 07:48 AM	#1790
NexDog Snail Killer Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kyushu, Japan Posts: 4,804	How does this differ from a nitrate reactor using sulphur beads? __________________ Laurence Flynn 340g In-Wall Envision Tank and 150g Sump. Current Tank Info: Deltec 902, PFO hood with 3x400w Radium 20k and 4x96w PC's. Hammerhead closed loop - and 2 x Tunze 6105 (and Vortech still sucks).

07/02/2010, 07:49 AM	#1791
bluereefs Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Croatia,island Rab Posts: 2,092	Well is 48 hours from my last experiment where I add so called "ignited" bp to my fluid reactor where are bp who do not work. New bp did not create bacterial bloom in that reactor/aquarium but create much more bacteria inside the reactor, that made another issue, bp get clumped/solidize very fast and even with the strongest flow throu reactor they sit on the bottom and there is visiblle only one "chanel" where water pass, the rest (aprox 80 % of bp) are still and clumped. I need to mix them daily with the stick to made them fluidized what is anoying because I need to open the fluid reactor each day. Skimming get litlle better but all of that is not even close to efects I get with my diy reactor. Well at least I get much more bacteria inside the reactor so finally they do something. I move that , now semy functional reactor to different aquarium and instead of him put my diy reactor (bacterial machine) in that aquarium. This time I try to avoid bacterial bloom and I use only very litlle amount of bp, only aprox 300-400 ml (on 150 g aquarium) also that are old bio pellets who work for months and already created 3 bacterial bloom, so many of bp granules are very tinny or look like empty shell. I alse washed all bacteria strings from complete reactor, actually cleaned him competly with shower except bp , did not touch them. Flow was also litlle slowed. After 12 hours skimming are much more stronger, there is trace of bacteria string on the aquarium glass and inside the reactor.Preliminary conclusion, my diy reactor do more in 12 hours with very small amount of already used bp then standard fluid reactor with 1000 ml of bp for months. Well at least I have one miracle reactor and can switch him from aquarium to aquarium as are needed. here are the pictures diy reactor instead of old This is very interesting for me, bp in this reactor are almost completly white and clean skimmer this morning bacteria string on the glass Last edited by bluereefs; 07/02/2010 at 08:15 AM.

07/01/2010, 04:21 AM	#1776
bluereefs Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Croatia,island Rab Posts: 2,092	Nice experiment Takayan, result show that bp can drop fosfate faster/more easy then nitrate. Also if I understend corectly you do not use skimmer at all? Maybe to get nitrate removal you need skimmer. Can you get some small nano skimmer and proceed further with eksperiment using skimmer?

07/01/2010, 11:56 AM	#1779
TheFishMan65 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,618	My understanding is that a skimmer is essential. The nitrate, phosphate and carbon produce a bactera. Three things can happens to this bacteria 1) It is eaten (good) 2) It is skimmed out (good) 3) None of the above so it breaks down for lack of food and returns the three chemical into the water. (bad)

07/02/2010, 04:19 AM	#1783
Timoweb Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: England, U.K. Posts: 31	Time for a change, added some biologically degradable polymer pellets and removed the zeo stones. The brand of pellet is N/P Biopellets. 3 days later I gave the pellets a shake and lots for white dust come off and the skimmate is much more foamy especially the the stuff that's gone over the side of the cup, I always have very good skimmate with Zeo but this does look different. No cloud storms in the tank just slight white dust floating about after a shake, even though the reactor is directed to the skimmer a little of the dust escapes to the main tank. I think they are working, I hope they are working lol

07/02/2010, 05:15 AM	#1784
Timoweb Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: England, U.K. Posts: 31	Found some older pics. This is how my skimmate looked when running Zeo, very good but its different now and the only thing I have changed is the stones for pellets. Before; And now;

07/02/2010, 07:11 AM	#1787
Timoweb Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: England, U.K. Posts: 31	It was not the quality of the skimmate that I was looking at more that the pellets are actually working. From the pics I would guess so, do you think they are?

07/02/2010, 07:24 AM	#1789
Timoweb Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: England, U.K. Posts: 31	I have also been dosing 5 drops of Zeobac per night straight into the reactor with the pellets. I am planning on adding the bac each night just for 2 more nights then just once a week and after a water change.

07/02/2010, 04:37 PM	#1793
camoausreefer Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Gold Coast Posts: 83	I'm into day 5 of my BP the 2nd day water was crystal clear, 3rd day my water went cloudy so I put the reactor on the back of my over flow as my skimmer is fed directly from the syphon. Now day 5 and still cloudy water there was some BP that came out of the reactor and are in a hard to Reach place. I have been using prodibio for 3momths my p04 was 0.04 but could not bring nitrate down any thoughts on why this could be happening? Thanks

07/02/2010, 04:46 PM	#1794
camoausreefer Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Gold Coast Posts: 83	I'm into day 5 of my BP the 2nd day water was crystal clear, 3rd day my water went cloudy so I put the reactor on the back of my over flow as my skimmer is fed directly from the syphon. Now day 5 and still cloudy water there was some BP that came out of the reactor and are in a hard to Reach place. I have been using prodibio for 3momths my p04 was 0.04 but could not bring nitrate down any thoughts on why this could be happening? Thanks

07/03/2010, 07:57 AM	#1797
camoausreefer Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Gold Coast Posts: 83	I'm using a 2000lhr feed pump with a tap on a reef octopus phosphate reactor.

07/03/2010, 08:06 AM	#1799
camoausreefer Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Gold Coast Posts: 83	I'm using a 2000lhr feed pump with a tap on a reef octopus phosphate reactor.

07/03/2010, 08:10 AM	#1800
camoausreefer Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Gold Coast Posts: 83	Sorry about the double posting damn iphones it's about 2-5ppm not really worried as I have great colour the main reason I started the pellets is because i have been batteling cyano for the last 6 months. Water is starting to clear on day 6