AquaIllumination PAR Measurements

[InfernoST]

Originally Posted by djkms

Ok I finally got a hold of a par meter. Apogee QMSS

First pic is readings at my current settings. 84 Blues / 62 Whites

All 70 degree optics - Hung 14" from the water surface



I have a glass center brace which is of course effecting results.

I rounded out the best I could and tried to get the sensor as close to the middle of the fixture underwater as possible. The closer the sensor was to the glass the higher it read...

And now 100% blue and white



Conclusion:
3 Units are NOT enough for a 72" tank with SPS, ok with LPS and softies, according to the par meter. However, my SPS is growing and only 1 has browned out but I believe that to be because of other reasons. The 2 bleached out corals in the picture actually came to me bleached.

I will be buying another 3 units as soon as I can. Honestly, not really happy with these readings.

I'm running 4 on a 5' tank (60x18v26). Maybe you should try putting the 40 degree optics back in. My lights are 13 inches above the water and torch things at 50%.

[HaleMoana]

Originally Posted by jmchzn123

Who told you 3 units... .

AI Tech Support told me one module per 24" x 24". I knew it was BS. I will post the email chain later.

I am considering start with 4 over my 210 but I know that i'll most likely have to go with 6 at some point

[stevedola]

what if you lowered them a bit

[kmu]

Originally Posted by stevedola

what if you lowered them a bit

Originally Posted by djkms

Ok I finally got a hold of a par meter. Apogee QMSS

First pic is readings at my current settings. 84 Blues / 62 Whites

All 70 degree optics - Hung 14" from the water surface



I have a glass center brace which is of course effecting results.

I rounded out the best I could and tried to get the sensor as close to the middle of the fixture underwater as possible. The closer the sensor was to the glass the higher it read...

And now 100% blue and white



Conclusion:
3 Units are NOT enough for a 72" tank with SPS, ok with LPS and softies, according to the par meter. However, my SPS is growing and only 1 has browned out but I believe that to be because of other reasons. The 2 bleached out corals in the picture actually came to me bleached.

I will be buying another 3 units as soon as I can. Honestly, not really happy with these readings.

14" above the water might be a bit too high for all 70s. But if you lower them you might not get the spread you need/want

[djkms]

I honestly don't think there is a easy solution for this outside of buying more units. If I lower the fixture then I lose even more par on the sides. If I change back to the 40/70 optics then I will be getting massive spotlighting again in 3 areas.

So far everything is doing good and growing but I don't see any way around it for the long term, at least 1 more unit is needed but ideally 3.

[CalmSeasQuest]

djkms - I think there's something wrong. Those PAR measurements seem far too low, even using the 70 degree optics. I'm wondering if the the PAR meter is defective.

For reference, here are PAR measurements I took at similar distances (albeit with 40 degree optics.) Even with the different optics, your results seem far off - especially the measurements taken directly under the AI...



You had ~250 PAR at 14" whereas interpolating my measurements yields more than triple what you're finding - More than can be accounted for by the 70 degree optics. That in addition to the fact you say your SPS are doing fine in PAR measuring less than 200, leads me to question the accuracy of the PAR meter.

If you still have access to the PAR meter, try taking measurements 6" directly below an AI unit @100% and compare it to my measurements of ~1270. That should largely discount the optics variable.

[djkms]

Originally Posted by CalmSeasQuest

djkms - I think there's something wrong.

Agreed

Originally Posted by CalmSeasQuest

Those PAR measurements seem far too low

Thats what I said!

Originally Posted by CalmSeasQuest

even using the 70 degree optics. I'm wondering if the the PAR meter is defective.

Huge possibility. It is a older model Apogee and it has been passed around more then..well you know. It belongs to one of our local clubs and its been around a while and probably never calibrated, at least not recently.

Originally Posted by CalmSeasQuest

You had ~250 PAR at 14" whereas interpolating my measurements yields more than triple what you're finding

My measurements were also taken about 1 1/2" under water.

Originally Posted by CalmSeasQuest

That in addition to the fact you say your SPS are doing fine in PAR measuring less than 200, leads me to question the accuracy of the PAR meter.

Agreed. I have had trouble with some SPS, RTN, but these have been wild colonies in a new tank. I have had other SPS grow like crazy in the time I have had them. I have had only one SPS brown out on me and thats because I took it out of the tank to clean bubble algae off of its base and that ticked it off.

Originally Posted by CalmSeasQuest

If you still have access to the PAR meter, try taking measurements 6" directly below an AI unit @100% and compare it to my measurements of ~1270. That should largely discount the optics variable.

Will do. I might even switch out one of the modules back to 40/70 and take measurements like yours. If my measurements are comparable to yours then i will spend some time adjusting optics and hanging height in the next week to get optimal coverage/par. I have the PAR meter for 2 weeks. I hope its just the meter, i dont have $1600 to drop on another 3 lights right now.

Thanks for the help and suggestions!

[VegasMike]

I just measured my lights actual height. I have five units above a 72"x24"x30" tank. The bottom of the lights are exactly 5.5" above the water surface. I am at 50% intensity and all 70* optics. Everything is doing great. My colors have only improved and the growth has been good. A wild Nobilis and a Maricultured Formosa have each had about 1/4" growth on each tip over the last 3-4 weeks. I have a wild pink Mille about 5" below the water surface that has held color well and the area that two branches broke off has healed nicely and is showing a bit of growth in just two weeks. My Squamosa Clam on the sand bed doesn't seem to be complaining either.

I have five units over the tank with the middle one turned parallel to the front as I have a center overflow, plenty of coverage at 5.5" with five units over a 72" tank. Probably could have gone with four at 8" above and cranked up the intesity a bit.

[HiImSean]

im loving this thread i've been very patient with my light and still haven't been able to hang my unit. I'd love to see some more pics over different sized tanks

[Useful_Idiot]

here's mine 19'' over a 40 breeder standard optics. I should lower it but have been to lazy. I think I started off too low as well, 20% and just getting up to 40% over a month's time.di'n't wanna bleach what was under the center but the sides aren't getting enough maybe. borrowing a par meter soon.

[Texasreefer79]

Quick question I have 2 sol blue over my 75 gallon tank and I have tried 12" above water down to 7" above water and have not been able to get anything to really work well with these lights, I do not have a par meter so I am on a total guess of what to put my settings at, right now I have whites at 70 and blues at 85 ( I do not have the latest AI drivers installed, I will do that later today) but I am starting to think I need either another 2 unites? all of my corals were looking bad so I put them in a friends tank, my tank has been up for about 3 months, I custom made the stands (yes the cables look like *** haha, will fix that after I fix my lighting issue) any suggestions on what I should do?

[djkms]

CalmSeasQuest:

1260 - 6" from the fixture - directly in the middle
480 - Full sensor above the water line
350 - Just the white part of the sensor above water
250 - Full sensor just below water

So as soon as the light hits the water 100 par is lost.

I will re-install my 40 degree optics and retest. I'm guessing the 70 degree optics are no good at all in penitrating down.

I now see why AI did 40/70 because way too much par is lost if the units are hung with any decent amount of height. Now all 70's might be the way to go if you have one fixture per 12" but in order to get the spread and intensity when all you can afford is 1/2 the recommended than the 40's are a must. I will try to switch back my optics tonight and retest with results.

[liquidplumber]

So what is the deal with the RKE controlling these ai units?

[bennylab]

i wanted to thank everyone who has taken time to share their experience and data. based on the wealth of information gathered here, i will be ordering 4 units for my 200g corner tank. this is my first saltwater tank so skipping straight to LED seems to make sense. the 73 pages i've read should help me avoid some mistakes. looking forward to getting some real light over my tank

[djkms]

Here you guys go:


Conclusion:
If your fixtures are hanging more than, say, 4-6" from the water surface DO NOT switch out to all 70's. Way too much par is lost. I think the all 70's are great for those who have the reccomended setup, IE 1 unit per 12". For us middle class folks who can only afford the minimum, 40/70 optics are ideal.

ALL IMO Of course.

I will be switching back to 40/70's and raising the units higher for better spread. Now to spend the next few days finding the sweet spot!

Now I am debating on picking up all 40 optics from AI and see how they do. I have around 6ft of space to work with between the tank and the ceiling!

[CalmSeasQuest]

Wow, That's an amazing amount of loss with the all 70's. I would have expected much less. I think you're on the right track with the 40's and additional elevation. Maybe down the road add one additional AI to to lessen the lower light areas in between the units if needed.

One other thing to remember - 600 PAR LED is NOT the same as 600 PAR under MH or T5. It's much more due to the error rate on PAR meters measuring very blue light (at ~20K colors, I believe it to be more than ~+25%.)

Watch your livestock carefully for signs of bleaching, especially those pieces directly under the 40's. Wait a while and see if you even need more PAR. I have lots of happy SPS at ~400 (measured, with the error rate, likely closer to ~500 in actuality) and LPS doing well on the substrate at ~100 without exceeding 55% on my 2 units w/40 degree optics elevated 14".

[djkms]

I have my fixture hanging 23" above the water line now. I also adjusted my intensities so that a majority of the coral is getting the same amount of par as before. According to my research and how ineffective 70 optics are when the fixture is high above the water line I would venture to guess the 70's are doing nothing but flooding my house with light! I highly doubt they are of any use 23" above the water.

Im going to shoot AI a email and see if I can get 70 optics. I will post back my findings when I do.

btw CalmSeasQuest since you are the OP of this thread which got me to purchase AI's in the first place I am going to send you the bill for another 3 units ok? You can use it as a tax write off, its a win win for both of us!!

[rosegarden]

Originally Posted by tor101898

I used a custom made light tree

What do you mean by a "light tree", and how did you make it?

[stevedola]

so when I order 1 AI blue sol make sure to order it with 40 deg optics to penetrate my 2ft cube tank and not lose crazy par. Thanks for the info DJKMS. Saved me a headache

[djkms]

Originally Posted by stevedola

so when I order 1 AI blue sol make sure to order it with 40 deg optics to penetrate my 2ft cube tank and not lose crazy par. Thanks for the info DJKMS. Saved me a headache

There is no way to special order a fixture with specific optics that I am aware of. The current generation comes with 70's on the sides and 40 in the middle.

A lot of people switched out the 40's for 70's due to more even coverage. This situation appears to be ideal for those who are running the recommended 1 unit per 12"

[tmgrash]

Am I the only one using these at 100%? I have the all 40deg optics about 5.5inches off the water on a 31" tall tank. New corals take a lot of acclimation, but once acclimated they do great (specially stags, have one getting 900par).
Just curious why no one else.

[Falcao]

Has anyone taken any par reading with the unit having all 70s, and closer to the water line to see if or how much the par values change becasue of height?

[CalmSeasQuest]

Originally Posted by tmgrash

Am I the only one using these at 100%? I have the all 40deg optics about 5.5inches off the water on a 31" tall tank. New corals take a lot of acclimation, but once acclimated they do great (specially stags, have one getting 900par).
Just curious why no one else.

Travis,

You're the only one I know running at 100%. I'm "inching" my way up, increasing a few % each week. Due to my multiple instances of bleaching (well documented throughout this thread ) I'm taking my time.

I'm at about 55% at mid day peaks presently, yeilding ~550 on the SPS shelf.

[tmgrash]

I bleached my fair share in the beggining, I got mine in Nov. of '09. We didnt have any helpful threads like this and I didnt have a par meter, recipe for disaester. Once I got it all figured out though everything has been great and currently run 100% for 2 1/2 hours per day.

[jonnybravo22]

Originally Posted by djkms

Here you guys go:


Conclusion:
If your fixtures are hanging more than, say, 4-6" from the water surface DO NOT switch out to all 70's. Way too much par is lost. I think the all 70's are great for those who have the reccomended setup, IE 1 unit per 12". For us middle class folks who can only afford the minimum, 40/70 optics are ideal.

ALL IMO Of course.

I will be switching back to 40/70's and raising the units higher for better spread. Now to spend the next few days finding the sweet spot!

Now I am debating on picking up all 40 optics from AI and see how they do. I have around 6ft of space to work with between the tank and the ceiling!

I dont think these PAR measurements are accurate. For instance, why would par be HIGHER at what looks to be at least 6 inches below another reading? you have 150 midway and 155 at the bottom? Yet you are losing massive amounts of PAR through AIR even at every other level?

Are you using the right setting on the apogee meter? Are you in electronic or SUN mode? i believe you should be in electronic mode.

PAR meters can be tricky with the BLUE light given off by the LEDs and underestimates from what i understand, but the results you get sort of seem strange, but i dont know the answer. is there another meter you could borrow as a check?