Official: Masterflex Calcium Reactor Setup Thread

[watsonj]

I have a complete Masterflex setup with ultimate regulater ext in for sale threads.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...3#post24646473

Untitled by watsonj0, on Flickr
Untitled by watsonj0, on Flickr

[souk]

Originally Posted by tkeracer619

Most of the reactors currently use is the 1/4" John Guest tubing. For longer runs or commercial units use 3/8 JG tubing. These are my suggestions for LS17 tubing. Each situation might require something different but for most of us this first group will be the one. The best tubing I am aware of right now is Pharmed Tygon supplied by US Plastics. It has a long life exposed to this environment. I change the tube once every quarter. It will last longer but... its cheep to be proactive. The qty suggested is good for about 2.5 years if kept away from radiation.

**** For 1/4" OD John Guest to LS/17 ****
(QTY3)http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=36204

(QTY3)http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=42009

(QTY4)http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=34082

(QTY10)http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=25534

so I'm placing my order for the part and was just wondering why I would need 3 of the first 2 in the link and why 4 on the third link.

thanks

[Haksar]

Hello Guys,

Good to know that this thread is going strong . I was inactive for some time but now I am back with the same setup I had earlier which is Geo618 , 200 gallon tank and a CP 7523-40 pump. I am pulling the water but the best part after resetting the reactor is that I no more have bubbles in the reactor so one head ache less. However I am unable to get the ph up from 6.1 or 6.2 to 6.5 based on a setting of 30ml/min , 3 seconds per bubble and 3 psi.

Moreover I am unable to increase the ml/min on the pump based on increment of 5ml/min. I can increase based on 10ml/min meaning if my current reading is 30ml/min I can increase to 40ml/min and not to 35ml/min . Is there any setting I need to change. However my biggest headache is I am unable to increase the ph. Kindly advise.

[vhuang168]

Increase the time between bubbles? In other words lower the bubble rate. Or you can turn off the CO2 altogether and increase the feed rate till you get to a ph you like then adjust the feed rate down and decrease the bubble rate to maintain


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[Haksar]

Originally Posted by vhuang168

Increase the time between bubbles? In other words lower the bubble rate. Or you can turn off the CO2 altogether and increase the feed rate till you get to a ph you like then adjust the feed rate down and decrease the bubble rate to maintain


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Thanks but if I reduce the BPM then KH may reduce at which to my astonishment its at 7.33 in the reactor and 6.77 in the tank based on Hanna alk reading .

Now I need to increase the alk and also the ph in the reactor , please help.

[Bpb]

If your reactor ph is that low, and you're still suffering from low display tank alk, everything needs to be turned up. You need to turn up your effluent by 10 ml/min (I would do more actually), and increase your bubble count. Effectively you will be raising the reactor ph (to whatever your goal is) and supplementing MORE in the process. Those geo starting setting recommendations are just an arbitrary starting point that will likely not work for most tanks, but also not crash most tanks over night. I use the same reactor and same pump on my 90 gallon and have it running at 1 bubble per 4 seconds, and 49 rpm on the masterflex which comes out to about 88 ml/min, with a reactor ph of 7.2 and display alk at 7.8 dKH


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[Haksar]

Originally Posted by Bpb

If your reactor ph is that low, and you're still suffering from low display tank alk, everything needs to be turned up. You need to turn up your effluent by 10 ml/min (I would do more actually), and increase your bubble count. Effectively you will be raising the reactor ph (to whatever your goal is) and supplementing MORE in the process. Those geo starting setting recommendations are just an arbitrary starting point that will likely not work for most tanks, but also not crash most tanks over night. I use the same reactor and same pump on my 90 gallon and have it running at 1 bubble per 4 seconds, and 49 rpm on the masterflex which comes out to about 88 ml/min, with a reactor ph of 7.2 and display alk at 7.8 dKH


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Thanks what setting is your PSI

[Bpb]

12 psi. At really low psi levels it is hard to keep a stable bubble count/size


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[Haksar]

Thanks , ok I increased based on your setting but kept the psi at 5 which gives accurate bubble count/size and also to avoid sudden shake . Let's see how it goes. Ph of the reactor is 6.1 and still not gone up.

[vhuang168]

Originally Posted by Bpb

12 psi. At really low psi levels it is hard to keep a stable bubble count/size


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Depends on your regulator setup. I'm using an industrial/research grade dual stage stainless regulator. 6 psi with a 10bpm stable count.


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[Krazie4Acans]

Originally Posted by Haksar

Thanks , ok I increased based on your setting but kept the psi at 5 which gives accurate bubble count/size and also to avoid sudden shake . Let's see how it goes. Ph of the reactor is 6.1 and still not gone up.

Did you increase drip rate or bubble count or both? If you are trying to increase tank alk and reduce reactor pH then just increase the drip rate and don't touch anything else. Krazie

[Bpb]

I've got a couple dual stage regulators as well. I seem to get a lot better control over the needle valves at a higher psi. On my planted tank I run it at 30 psi and the needle valve is a lot easier to adjust than the one on my calcium reactor which is at a much lower ph.


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[hkgar]

You should not worry about flow. Set it and forget it for the most part.

If you adjust flow here is what happens. If you increase the fowl the water spends less time in the reactor so the reactor ph goes up and the effluent ALK goes down as does the tank Alk. If you decrease the flow rate just the opposite.

To increase tank ALK increase either the bubble rate or the CO2 PSI, or both. As the ph of the reactor goes down the ALK of the effluent will go up and so will the tanks. You just cannot get there by adjusting flow rate. You might think you are adding more ALK but each time you increase the flow the ALK of the effluent goes down.

[Bpb]

Correct me if I'm wrong though but at some point if your effluent is too slow, and you keep increasing co2 beyond the reactors ability to dissolve it you will stall out the circulation pump?


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[Krazie4Acans]

You also have to be careful of not getting your reactor pH too low or the media turns to mush and plugs the reactor. There is more than one way to skin this cat. The important part is to only adjust one part and then give it time to stabilize and measure the change before adjusting anything else.

[Haksar]

Originally Posted by Krazie4Acans

Did you increase drip rate or bubble count or both? If you are trying to increase tank alk and reduce reactor pH then just increase the drip rate and don't touch anything else. Krazie

Yes increased to 80ml/min and 4 seconds per bubble and psi at 5.Now ph in the reactor is 6.4 which is positive. I have not checked the alk thought will check after a few hours to stabilise

[Haksar]

Originally Posted by hkgar

You should not worry about flow. Set it and forget it for the most part.

If you adjust flow here is what happens. If you increase the fowl the water spends less time in the reactor so the reactor ph goes up and the effluent ALK goes down as does the tank Alk. If you decrease the flow rate just the opposite.

To increase tank ALK increase either the bubble rate or the CO2 PSI, or both. As the ph of the reactor goes down the ALK of the effluent will go up and so will the tanks. You just cannot get there by adjusting flow rate. You might think you are adding more ALK but each time you increase the flow the ALK of the effluent goes down.

If I don't increase the flow ph in the reactor hovers around 6.1. So the only way to counter it I feel is increase the flow . In my earlier setting of 35ml/ min and 3 psi and 3 bubble per second kh and ph was low.

[Haksar]

Just checked reactor KH is at 7.50 slowly increasing at settings of 80ml/min, 4 seconds per bubble and 5 PSI. Reactor pH is now hovering at 6.40 and 6.50 which is a good sign .
With this setting I have managed to increase ph but let's KH will increase further or not.

[hkgar]

Originally Posted by Krazie4Acans

You also have to be careful of not getting your reactor pH too low or the media turns to mush and plugs the reactor. There is more than one way to skin this cat. The important part is to only adjust one part and then give it time to stabilize and measure the change before adjusting anything else.

Of course you can drive the reactor ph to low. That is why my Apex will shut down the regulator if ph is less than 6.3. I keep the flow rate at 30ml/min and adjust PSI and BPM to increase or decrease tank dKH.

My logic says that the longer the water stays in the reactor (slower flow rate) the more Alk it can absorb (might not be the right scientific word, but I think you know what I mean) so the more effective is the reactor. If your rate is 60ml/min than the water has only 1/2 the time in the reactor than at 30 ml/min

[Haksar]

[QUOTE=hkgar;24653121]Of course you can drive the reactor ph to low. That is why my Apex will shut down the regulator if ph is less than 6.3. I keep the flow rate at 30ml/min and adjust PSI and BPM to increase or decrease tank dKH.

My logic says that the longer the water stays in the reactor (slower flow rate) the more Alk it can absorb (might not be the right scientific word, but I think you know what I mean) so the more effective is the reactor. If your rate is 60ml/min than the water has only 1/2 the time in the reactor than at 30 ml/min

Agree but with the low flow set up somehow my reactor ph is not increasing.
Now with the lower psi (5) and 4 seconds per bubble ph is holding up at 6.4 to 6.5. I was expecting to go higher so that I can reduce the flow but it's not happening .

[hkgar]

Originally Posted by Haksar

Just checked reactor KH is at 7.50 slowly increasing at settings of 80ml/min, 4 seconds per bubble and 5 PSI. Reactor pH is now hovering at 6.40 and 6.50 which is a good sign .
With this setting I have managed to increase ph but let's KH will increase further or not.

What is the KH of the reactor effluent?

[Krazie4Acans]

Originally Posted by hkgar

My logic says that the longer the water stays in the reactor (slower flow rate) the more Alk it can absorb (might not be the right scientific word, but I think you know what I mean) so the more effective is the reactor. If your rate is 60ml/min than the water has only 1/2 the time in the reactor than at 30 ml/min

That might be true if the water that you were putting into the reactor was the water that came straight back out. Obviously the water going in mixes with the saturated water already in the reactor to bring all water in the reactor to the same Alk and Cal saturation level. The pump on the reactor mixes the water inside the reactor at hundreds of GPH so clearly the small amount of water we are running through the reactor gets mixed very quickly into the rest of the water. Just like when we do water changes, the small amount of water going in has very little effect on the total water parameters inside the reactor until the flow rate gets quite high.

The amount of Alk and Cal in the water is controlled by the pH (how acidic the water in the reactor is to dissolve the media). If the pH is maintained in the reactor then the same amount of Alk and Cal is available in the water at just about any flow rate (within reason). Thus maintaining pH and increasing flow will increase tank parameters more effectively.

At least that's the way I think of it. We are also talking about this in the masterflex thread so we have quite accurate control over flow rates and consistency of that flow. Having a stable pH but a flow rate that was constantly changing (like when using needle valves) is the whole reason this topic exists. Constant pH and constant flow give a constant result to the tank. Krazie

[Bpb]

Correct. When people say things like a faster effluent rate will supplement more....they need to specify ONLY under identical ph conditions. If you don't adjust the gas and ONLY adjust the effluent, it is less concentrated, less dwell time, less dissolution, less supplementation, higher ph. Those are the results. As mentioned, which I know you understand...if one wants to BOTH increase the reactor ph, AND concentration of effluent, or the amount you're supplementing, you have to increase both effluent and bubble count. The increased effluent should be weighted slightly more than the increased bubble count. That way you can have both a net increase in supplementation, with a higher ph at the same time. Only adjusting the bubble count but not the effluent in your case will just turn the media to dust and drive the ph even lower, while supplementing more until your reactor stalled out entirely. Only increasing the effluent without touching the regulator, will result in higher reactor ph, but weaker effluent. Reducing only effluent without touching gas will reduce reactor ph, and strengthen the effluent.


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[hkgar]

Let's just say that my tank dKh is 8.0, my flow is 30ml/min, reactor ph 6.4 and and my tank dKh starts to drop dainly, because of growth. I thin at that point you would have to increase flow ( I would up it to 40 and reset ph to where I could get consistent tank dKh).

Am I right to assume that if I increase flow rate to 40 and maintained the same ph, the tank alk would start increasing, so to maintain tank stability I would have to increase ph when increasing flow?

I guess the question is when you are running the reactor at the lowest safe point before turning media into mush, what would you do to get more ALK into the tank?

[Bpb]

Just as you said. Increase both effluent and gas to maintain ph. If you only increase effluent, the ph will rise as well


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