Rebuild and recovery of a dead tank

[jason2459]

Originally Posted by jjvanb

J-

What function or purpose does the UG filter serve? Is it just for additional biological filtration? less live rock needed in the system? I think I saw somewhere you got the inspiration for it from PaulB (not sure if I got the name right). What other benefits could it provide your system?

Yep, it's all PaulB's fault. The number one benifit has been a tremendous amount of pods produced by it. Its like a hotel for various pods. Cover it with dolomite. I have no idea if it has other benefits. It may. PaulB has ran one for 40 years or so and makes the entire bottom of his tank a refugium for them.

[jason2459]

Originally Posted by jjvanb

J-

What function or purpose does the UG filter serve? Is it just for additional biological filtration? less live rock needed in the system? I think I saw somewhere you got the inspiration for it from PaulB (not sure if I got the name right). What other benefits could it provide your system?

Also, please note that it's reversed flow. So pumps are pushing water into the tubes and into the plate.

[jason2459]

Originally Posted by jason2459

Getting a plan together for the new sump. Based kind of off the trigger system sump I'm running now. I really like how I have the drains come in and wraps around like a U turn to the return pump. Except I'd really like the skimmer first and a much larger "bio" area. I don't really want to call it a refugium as its not your typical one and if I did want that I'd setup a split sump with the return in the middle.

Water height pretty much around to the return area is 14" and return area 10".

Got the glass cut and there is one change I'm going to make and that's reverse the baffle flow. So, from the skimmer section to the bio area will be a flow over baffle. Then to the return will be a under/over/under baffle setup.

This is to prevent the left side from ever being emptied. Say for some really terrible reason my skimmer goes nuts and starts filling up the skimmate bucket and murphy is really on his game and either the switches in the buck don't work to shutdown the skimmer or what's happened before starts siphoning out just the skimmer section could get drained. Assuming my other failsafes don't fail too. Lots of failsafes in place. Basically from failures of others or myself that I've learned from and put something into place to help prevent from happening again.

The flow over from the skimmer section also forces all the microbubbles to the surface. The return section is pulling water from the bottom where they shouldn't be. The ATS drains may cause some bubbles but those are bigger then the skimmers microbubbles and rise pretty quick and even if it got under the returns first baffle would be killed by the second set of them.

The space between and under the baffles are 2" so should allow the 1400gph go through fairly smoothly and not like a raging rapids causing bubbles.

Now, hopefully the 14" running height through most of the sump allows for enough space for the back flow of water when the return stops. I THINK I've calculated it right.... will find out in about a week to let the silicone cure.

[jason2459]

Looks like Bud is getting back on track to get his Turbo Aquatics ATS Rev 4s out. I let him know I'm low priority. I am excited but I've got lots of other things I'm still playing with and other things I can do in the mean time. Plus I still have the L4 Rev3 going and kicking butt. But if you noticed in my sump layout that Turbo's ATS is the dimensions of the L8 Rev4

From my last cleaning this past weekend


I've been running the lights 24/7 and the growth is pressing out to the insides. You can see it flattened out in that picture where it was doing that.

Plus I've been double dosing a product called Vibrant that's supposed to kill off algae. lol

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2611990

[jason2459]

Originally Posted by jason2459

Getting a plan together for the new sump. Based kind of off the trigger system sump I'm running now. I really like how I have the drains come in and wraps around like a U turn to the return pump. Except I'd really like the skimmer first and a much larger "bio" area. I don't really want to call it a refugium as its not your typical one and if I did want that I'd setup a split sump with the return in the middle.

Water height pretty much around to the return area is 14" and return area 10".

Originally Posted by jason2459

Got the glass cut and there is one change I'm going to make and that's reverse the baffle flow. So, from the skimmer section to the bio area will be a flow over baffle. Then to the return will be a under/over/under baffle setup.

This is to prevent the left side from ever being emptied. Say for some really terrible reason my skimmer goes nuts and starts filling up the skimmate bucket and murphy is really on his game and either the switches in the buck don't work to shutdown the skimmer or what's happened before starts siphoning out just the skimmer section could get drained. Assuming my other failsafes don't fail too. Lots of failsafes in place. Basically from failures of others or myself that I've learned from and put something into place to help prevent from happening again.

The flow over from the skimmer section also forces all the microbubbles to the surface. The return section is pulling water from the bottom where they shouldn't be. The ATS drains may cause some bubbles but those are bigger then the skimmers microbubbles and rise pretty quick and even if it got under the returns first baffle would be killed by the second set of them.

The space between and under the baffles are 2" so should allow the 1400gph go through fairly smoothly and not like a raging rapids causing bubbles.

Now, hopefully the 14" running height through most of the sump allows for enough space for the back flow of water when the return stops. I THINK I've calculated it right.... will find out in about a week to let the silicone cure.

Just got done swapping out the sump.

Lots of untangling and rerunnung, cutting solid pvc drain pipe to get old sump out, gluing new flex pvc, untangling more stuff.

Filled 3/4 the way and had to make new saltwater. Untangled more stuff. Cleaned off the pumps, ATS, and skimmer collection cup, OMG I will post pics of that later....

Adjusted a bunch of stuff as I have a million failsafe switches of various types. Got the heaters, ATS, AWC, ATO, return, skimmer, swabbie, etc.

Finished filling the tank all the way, turned on the return pump and skimmer and ATS and was able to siphon out some water to bring the water level in the return section down to where I want the running level to be.

Calculations were perfect. A good 2.5 plus inches to spare at the top of the sump and goes right to the top of the 18" divider.


I'm also loving the way its flowing through. Glad I decided to flip the baffles. Pics later.


Oh, there was one thing I forgot to account for. The skimmers drain to my skimmate bucket. Because its moved over it wasn't long enough and that size tubing is the only size tubing I don't have a spare of. I'll have to pick some up tomorrow. For now I opened up the gate valve quite a bit. But that darn skimmer is to good and was still pushing skimmate up the neck. lol

[jason2459]

So, its been a little over a month since I cleaned my skimmers collection cup. I was not expecting to find what I found but not surprised either. I went near a year with out cleaning my Aquamaxx collection cup once that was also running this same Swabbie neck cleaner.

It was a pretty nasty sight before. But this build up was much worse. This skimmer, at least for me, produces a thick and very sticky dry foam.

The inside of the collection cup was almost closed up


And the neck cleaner's arm was caked full. The plastic rod is not nearly this thick


I definitely shouldn't go much longer between cleanings then this.


Also, since my drain tubing isn't long enough now that I changed its location in the sump I tried to tune it way down by opening up the gate valve and bring the water level really low

But this skimmer just doesn't want to give up that easily...


And pushing over the top...I had to open the gate valve even more

[jason2459]

You can see some of the new drain lines there in that last picture above.

And here's the new sump in place


Skimmer fit in there nicely

[jason2459]

I will have to make a small adjustment to things that are measured by tank volume. I don't go by tank specs which is not the actual water volume.

I don't have 255 gallons now that I have a 180 display tank and 75 gallon sump. For one the sump isn't running completely filled. Then there's sand and rock that takes up room away from the water volume. But the piping adds some water volume.

According to this handy calculator
http://reef.diesyst.com/volcalc/volcalc.html

I have around 220 total gallons of water. I had around 190ish before the sump swap.

[jason2459]

My new lees aquatics UGF plate came in and fits in perfect. Instead of the 12x24 I got a 16x22.5. It definitely fits the space better.

I also picked up 4 liters of pond matrix that will go on top. Its very porous being basically a pumice stone. Then my marine pure and brightwell/kent blocks and plates will go on top of that.

I have a single aquaclear 50 running the rugf in reverse. The pump itself is designed specifically for UGF plates and also capable of running in reverse. The Aquaclear 50 in reverse is rated around 125gpg. With back pressure its probably around 100gph less or more.

The pond matrix is very light and some of it floats in water so for right now I rinsed them in RODI water and placed them in a couple media bags sitting on top of the RUGF plate until they soak in enough water there's no more floaters.

[jason2459]

So here's the final sump setup. I still need to organize and mount the probes.

[jason2459]

One thing I noticed that could be helpful that wasn't planned is the depth of the water the MTC MVX skimmer runs in now places the venturi under water at all times.

When the return is turned off automatically for feedings several times through out the day so does the skimmer and the air line fills with water. When the return and then skimmer turns on that water is sucked out and air is drawn. Will see if this can eliminate or greatly reduce venturi maintenance.

I have concerns about salt creep still but ca1ore flushes his venturi out with a nifty automatic device he rigged up with saltwater.

I still need to check air draw and watts used now the skimmer is in 14-15" of water vs 7-8" it was in before. My guess is both have gone down. Now I want to try out the 784mazzei again. It had higher air draw numbers and flow was a lot more as lots of microbubbles where leaving the skimmer. With my setup now there's no chance for those microbubbles to reach the return pump. That skimmer area first baffle pushes them right to the top and the return is pulling from the bottom.

[jason2459]

Short video of the skimmer in its new location

Posted in the MTC Skimmer club thread

Some new numbers with the 784 mazzei running at full speed in around 15" of water. Definitely still a lot of flow and tons of microbubbles exiting the skimmer.



Not a good setup if you don't have a good bubble trap setup. On my previous trigger system sump there wasn't a triple baffle and the microbubbles went through. On my new sump with triple baffles and the fact they are so tall and my skimmer section single baffle that forces them all to the surface and the triple baffles draws from the bottom initially those microbubbles do not come close to making it to my return pump.



Air draw: ~24scfh

Watts used: 146watts



https://youtu.be/zpTaQfI3MeY



Before with running in around 7-8" of water.

Waveline DC 12000 @ Level 11 w/ 784 mazzei

Air draw: ~26scfh

Max head height: 22.96'

Watts: rated: 150watts (w/ adapter) 139watts (after adapter) actual: 150wattts (w/ adapter)

[jason2459]

Trying out a couple new temp controllers. .1 degree control and dual stage. Seems and feels like good quality and I like the design.

[jason2459]

I'm pretty impressed with the quality of that Bayite temp controller. The relays in it are robust and commercial quality. Just under $60 off Amazon and it can do a lot.

It was really pretty simple to setup and found it can do a lot. More then I will need it for. It can do a differential from the set value from .1 degree on up. It also handles alarms high and low temp and delay on for compressors.

The temp reading seems spot on with the Ranco which only has a resolution of 1 degree. The bayite was reading 79.1, Ranco (both of them) 79, and Apex 79.3.

For dual stage it will work towards what ever the set point is and deviation. Automatically swiching between heating and cooling.

If you don't have an aquarium controller or you want a redundant heater controller this is another option out there like the inkbirds.

Bottom reading is the set value and top is the actual value. And led to show if its cooling or heating.



The manual goes over a few scenarios and the quick start is a heating only setup.

[biecacka]

That skimmer is looking good jason!!!

Corey

[jason2459]

Thanks, I'm loving it and its satisfying my need to keep tinkering. Before I'd just keep buying new skimmers.

I did swap back in the 684 mazzei as it just seems the 784 creates to much flow for that body. If it was taller I think it would be better. The more air draw is great but I feel the increased flow is to much. The foam head up top in the neck was more volatile with the 784. I still plan to play with a dual venturi setup.

[jason2459]

Upgraded my DI stages last night. Replaced 3x 10"x2.5" housings with 2x 20"x2.5" housings. I found out a single 20" refillable cartridge holds more by about a quarter pound or so then 2x 10" refillable cartridges. This should last quite a long time time as I swap the 2nd cartridge to the first rotation like I was doing with the 3x 10" stages.

[Floyd R Turbo]

I think you need another DI canister, how do you get by with only two?

[jason2459]

Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo

I think you need another DI canister, how do you get by with only two?

Lol yeah. I also don't know what I was thinking just going with the 20"x2.5" when I could have gotten the 20"x4.5" too.

[jason2459]

Also, I did that in part to get ready for this

http://www.buckeyehydro.com/the-gapp...ial-ro-system/

And I have to say thanks to buckeye hydro's rep on here for answering many questions I had. Very helpful.

The Gapper is basically a commercial RO unit that's actually well under a grand and is complete with everything you need for an RO setup. Booster pump, solenoids, auto flush, etc. I've found some commercial RO units just under a grand but it would lack many things that would actually make them a complete setup. Seems like complete commercial units usually start around 2 grand! It is just RO though so went ahead and used it as an excuse to upgrade my DI stages too.

I'm pretty exited as over the years since 2009 I've upgraded little by little the basic 5 stage ro/di I've had and the Gapper is definitely the next step up.

400gph, 1 to 1 waste ratio, 98.5+ rejection, auto flush, and solenoid shutoff are some of whats missing that I have now. I also love that 400gpd is a single membrane to replace which will actually be cheaper than the 2 150gpd membranes I have now.

Which are due to be replaced by next year. Which this is pretty early in my replacement cycle. Will see if I can stretch this membrane to the next year divisible by 3. I also should be able to replace the bigger 20x2.5" carbon blocks once a year instead of the every 6 months I preemptively replace the 10" blocks. I'll put those on a mid year replacement cycle of every June. Again, a few months past for the next replacement should be ok. I'll do some chlorine tests next year when it gets past the actual year mark when they go in service.

Hopefully will have the Gapper in the next couple weeks. I did have to also upgrade my supply line since the Gapper uses 3/8"OD tubing. My current setup uses 1/4" OD tubing from a saddle valve. Buckeye Hydro highly recommends not using a saddle valve even for standard residential RODI units. And especially not for commercial type units like the Gapper which they call a light commercial unit.

I started a thread on this because it was surprising how much more running pressure I was able to get switching off the saddle valve. Almost 20psi

From this


74psi


To this


92psi

[bif24701]

Originally Posted by jason2459

Also, I did that in part to get ready for this

http://www.buckeyehydro.com/the-gapp...ial-ro-system/

And I have to say thanks to buckeye hydro's rep on here for answering many questions I had. Very helpful.

The Gapper is basically a commercial RO unit that's actually well under a grand and is complete with everything you need for an RO setup. Booster pump, solenoids, auto flush, etc. I've found some commercial RO units just under a grand but it would lack many things that would actually make them a complete setup. Seems like complete commercial units usually start around 2 grand! It is just RO though so went ahead and used it as an excuse to upgrade my DI stages too.

I'm pretty exited as over the years since 2009 I've upgraded little by little the basic 5 stage ro/di I've had and the Gapper is definitely the next step up.

400gph, 1 to 1 waste ratio, 98.5+ rejection, auto flush, and solenoid shutoff are some of whats missing that I have now. I also love that 400gpd is a single membrane to replace which will actually be cheaper than the 2 150gpd membranes I have now.

Which are due to be replaced by next year. Which this is pretty early in my replacement cycle. Will see if I can stretch this membrane to the next year divisible by 3. I also should be able to replace the bigger 20x2.5" carbon blocks once a year instead of the every 6 months I preemptively replace the 10" blocks. I'll put those on a mid year replacement cycle of every June. Again, a few months past for the next replacement should be ok. I'll do some chlorine tests next year when it gets past the actual year mark when they go in service.

Hopefully will have the Gapper in the next couple weeks. I did have to also upgrade my supply line since the Gapper uses 3/8"OD tubing. My current setup uses 1/4" OD tubing from a saddle valve. Buckeye Hydro highly recommends not using a saddle valve even for standard residential RODI units. And especially not for commercial type units like the Gapper which they call a light commercial unit.

I started a thread on this because it was surprising how much more running pressure I was able to get switching off the saddle valve. Almost 20psi

From this


74psi


To this


92psi

Wow, that's a great RO system. How much water do you make?

I upgraded my BRS 4 stage basic to the 6 stage plus and water saver. I make from 55-150 gallons a week and I find it fills those needs well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jason2459]

Let see.

2.6 gallons/day AWC on 180 (~72.8g/month)
4 gallons per week water change on my 20g mantis tank. (I have no other filtration on it just water changes). (~16g/month)

25 gallons about every 2 weeks for limewater dosing (~5g/month)

Around 20g per week ATO on main tank
1g top of on mantis tank (84g/month)

2 gallons per week between two beta tanks in kids rooms 8g/month)

Around 5-10 gallons a week in miscellaneous things like rinsing of or cleaning things (~40g/month)

And funny thing is its that miscellaneous and smaller gallon stuff stuff I'm always wishing the RO output was faster.

So looks like a rough guess of at least 226 gallons per month.

The big things I'm looking forward to is the auto flush, 1 to 1 waste ratio, and the very high rejection rate.

My system right now is about 4:1 waste and about 96-98 rejection rate. That will be a big savings in water usage and DI usage. The DI being the bigger of the cost but the water reduction will be good environmentally.

The next big pluses to me will be that I will only need to swap out a single membrane and reduce the pre filter change out to once a year. The cost on the prefilters is a wash but the single membrane will be slightly cheaper and easier.

And I'll be able to fill up my 5 gallon and smaller containers on the fly faster.

[bif24701]

Originally Posted by jason2459

Let see.

2.6 gallons/day AWC on 180 (~72.8g/month)
4 gallons per week water change on my 20g mantis tank. (I have no other filtration on it just water changes). (~16g/month)

25 gallons about every 2 weeks for limewater dosing (~5g/month)

Around 20g per week ATO on main tank
1g top of on mantis tank (84g/month)

2 gallons per week between two beta tanks in kids rooms 8g/month)

Around 5-10 gallons a week in miscellaneous things like rinsing of or cleaning things (~40g/month)

And funny thing is its that miscellaneous and smaller gallon stuff stuff I'm always wishing the RO output was faster.

So looks like a rough guess of at least 226 gallons per month.

The big things I'm looking forward to is the auto flush, 1 to 1 waste ratio, and the very high rejection rate.

My system right now is about 4:1 waste and about 96-98 rejection rate. That will be a big savings in water usage and DI usage. The DI being the bigger of the cost but the water reduction will be good environmentally.

The next big pluses to me will be that I will only need to swap out a single membrane and reduce the pre filter change out to once a year. The cost on the prefilters is a wash but the single membrane will be slightly cheaper and easier.

And I'll be able to fill up my 5 gallon and smaller containers on the fly faster.

Sure has several key benefits especially if your water is expensive. I lived in a house that had very expensive water and an upgrade like this could pay for its self if you make a lot of water like I do. Now I don't have to pay for water.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jason2459]

Originally Posted by bif24701

Sure has several key benefits especially if your water is expensive. I lived in a house that had very expensive water and an upgrade like this could pay for its self if you make a lot of water like I do. Now I don't have to pay for water.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's awesome. My water isn't very expensive and bill usually runs around $50-60 per month which doesn't include trash pickup. That's separate and ran independently here. I would just prefer not to waste so much water if I didn't have too. We have had a drought and water restrictions here once before since I've been here but that's not normal.

[jason2459]

KP Aquatics Common Starfish still going strong. Got two of them October 2015