Kessil Club

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by mfaso24

I'm about 7 months into my first sps tank. How would you describe "good growth". Being that it's my first and only sps tank it's hard to judge when I have nothing to compare to.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you have polyp extension, no browned out sps, and any growth, imo then you're doing something right. Some coral grow an inch a month and some an inch a year.

There is no industry accepted standard on what is acceptable growth. Each tank is different with lighting being one component of many in a successful reef.

[MHG]

Originally Posted by mfaso24

I'm about 7 months into my first sps tank. How would you describe "good growth". Being that it's my first and only sps tank it's hard to judge when I have nothing to compare to.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Changes in your alk and calc consumption are the best way to indicate how much growth your getting. A couple of frags wont do much, but if you have a bunch of frags and they are all growing, you should have your consumption rate increasing regularly.

Take pictures and compare as well...

[mfaso24]

Originally Posted by MHG

Changes in your alk and calc consumption are the best way to indicate how much growth your getting. A couple of frags wont do much, but if you have a bunch of frags and they are all growing, you should have your consumption rate increasing regularly.



Take pictures and compare as well...

Yeah I'm always taking pictures to compare over time. I guess I'm doing something right according to everyone


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Confuse]

For those of you with AP 700's, how is your coral coloration? Specifically, red corals? I have yet to stack my tank with corals since I got my lights. Just wondering how you're linking the color.

Currently, the left side of the color wheel doesn't incorporate the red and green leds and when I adjust the red and green leds in the setpoints, my intensity gets turned down to 70% max.

Any opinions?

[Salty150]

Originally Posted by Confuse

For those of you with AP 700's, how is your coral coloration? Specifically, red corals? I have yet to stack my tank with corals since I got my lights. Just wondering how you're linking the color.

Currently, the left side of the color wheel doesn't incorporate the red and green leds and when I adjust the red and green leds in the setpoints, my intensity gets turned down to 70% max.

Any opinions?

I thought you weren't supposed to use red and green in a reef tank?

[Confuse]

Originally Posted by Salty150

I thought you weren't supposed to use red and green in a reef tank?

Ideally, you'd use a neutral white led to cover the red spectrum, but not many manufacturers do, so they supplement cool whites with red leds. I don't like it, but that's how they do it. It's just a way to accomplish the same thing in a different way. But green and red leds are harder to mix so you'll get the disco effect.

[Salty150]

Well according to Red Sea:

NOTE: Red and Green wavelengths are not recommended for use in Reef systems as they may promote the outbreak of unwanted Algae or Cyanobacteria.

[vhuang168]

I've talked to Kessil reps and they say the red green is mainly for visual. They were included because many complained the Kessil lights were too blue.

Corals don't really use that side of the spectrum. I don't touch them at all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mfaso24]

Originally Posted by vhuang168

I've talked to Kessil reps and they say the red green is mainly for visual. They were included because many complained the Kessil lights were too blue.

Corals don't really use that side of the spectrum. I don't touch them at all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

+1


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HippieSmell]

Does anyone know what the spectrum chart is for the different settings on the ap700?

[shred5]

Originally Posted by vhuang168

I've talked to Kessil reps and they say the red green is mainly for visual. They were included because many complained the Kessil lights were too blue.

Corals don't really use that side of the spectrum. I don't touch them at all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

See while technically that is true it is also not true.

People focus to much on the light spectrum of chlorophyll for corals. We focus so much on par but it is the spectrum outside of par that causes allot of the colors in corals especially red and UV. This is why LEDs fail for so many with sps corals, they run them way too blue.

This really only affects mainly shallow water corals which are allot of the sps kept in the hobby come from. The corals from shallow water are bombarded all day with UV, green, red, yellow etc spectrum's of light. These shallow water corals have overtime built up UV and color blocking proteins and pigments. They also have proteins and pigments that change the colors of light to more useful ones. These pigments and proteins are what cause the color in sps.

Spectrum of light like red are actually bad for corals and has been proven.. But that is why corals can block it.

People like the blue pop but for allot of sps this will cause them too loose colors if you turn down the other spectrum's of light.

You have to ask why the rush to add UV spectrum in leds?

[vhuang168]

Originally Posted by shred5

See while technically that is true it is also not true.

People focus to much on the light spectrum of chlorophyll for corals. We focus so much on par but it is the spectrum outside of par that causes allot of the colors in corals especially red and UV. This is why LEDs fail for so many with sps corals, they run them way too blue.

This really only affects mainly shallow water corals which are allot of the sps kept in the hobby come from. The corals from shallow water are bombarded all day with UV, green, red, yellow etc spectrum's of light. These shallow water corals have overtime built up UV and color blocking proteins and pigments. They also have proteins and pigments that change the colors of light to more useful ones. These pigments and proteins are what cause the color in sps.

Spectrum of light like red are actually bad for corals and has been proven.. But that is why corals can block it.

People like the blue pop but for allot of sps this will cause them too loose colors if you turn down the other spectrum's of light.

You have to ask why the rush to add UV spectrum in leds?

And that's why there is white to allow you to mix in. There really is no reason the add a red color specifically when you have white. The only reason is to show the red pigments more but that would mean the pigments are already there. By your argument, any red corals I put into my tank will not have much red and will be more blue dominant and that is not the case.

The rush to add UV is because it is NOT filtered out of the water like reds are.

LEDs DO NOT fail for so many sps corals. I have yet to see a specific sps coral that doesn't flourish in a tank lit only by LEDs. Many ATTEMPTS to use leds have failed but there can be many reasons and not pinned solely on the use of LEDs.

Any argument about change in coloration in corals due to LED light shouldn't be restricted to SPS only. If it affects SPS, it should affect ALL corals.

Besides, people have run only 20k Ushios for ages and that has not caused any changes in color. Unless you are saying there is extra red n green in 20k mh bulbs!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[shred5]

Originally Posted by vhuang168

And that's why there is white to allow you to mix in. There really is no reason the add a red color specifically when you have white. The only reason is to show the red pigments more but that would mean the pigments are already there. By your argument, any red corals I put into my tank will not have much red and will be more blue dominant and that is not the case.

The rush to add UV is because it is NOT filtered out of the water like reds are.

LEDs DO NOT fail for so many sps corals. I have yet to see a specific sps coral that doesn't flourish in a tank lit only by LEDs. Many ATTEMPTS to use leds have failed but there can be many reasons and not pinned solely on the use of LEDs.

Any argument about change in coloration in corals due to LED light shouldn't be restricted to SPS only. If it affects SPS, it should affect ALL corals.

Besides, people have run only 20k Ushios for ages and that has not caused any changes in color. Unless you are saying there is extra red n green in 20k mh bulbs!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No that is not what I am saying about red.
Most leds have red spectrum now anyway and I do not want to turn this into a led debate... My point is just dont use too much blue the other spectrum's count for corals that come from shallower water and are exposed to more of a full spectrum.
I think you need to read Dana Riddles newer articles on coral pigments.

[HippieSmell]

Since there's all this talk of spectrum, does anyone know what spectrum the ap700 puts out at the different settings? I can't find the info anywhere and customer support hasn't responded to my request.

I appreciate it

[vhuang168]

Are you talking about kelvins? Kessil doesn't do specific kelvin spectrums. Or are you talking about what wavelengths they emit?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HippieSmell]

Originally Posted by vhuang168

Are you talking about kelvins? Kessil doesn't do specific kelvin spectrums. Or are you talking about what wavelengths they emit?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wavelengths. The overall spectrum emmitted for each setting.

[mfaso24]

Originally Posted by shred5

See while technically that is true it is also not true.

People focus to much on the light spectrum of chlorophyll for corals. We focus so much on par but it is the spectrum outside of par that causes allot of the colors in corals especially red and UV. This is why LEDs fail for so many with sps corals, they run them way too blue.

This really only affects mainly shallow water corals which are allot of the sps kept in the hobby come from. The corals from shallow water are bombarded all day with UV, green, red, yellow etc spectrum's of light. These shallow water corals have overtime built up UV and color blocking proteins and pigments. They also have proteins and pigments that change the colors of light to more useful ones. These pigments and proteins are what cause the color in sps.

Spectrum of light like red are actually bad for corals and has been proven.. But that is why corals can block it.

People like the blue pop but for allot of sps this will cause them too loose colors if you turn down the other spectrum's of light.

You have to ask why the rush to add UV spectrum in leds?

I have to disagree a little on this. When you go diving, the coloration of corals is actually much bleaker in comparison to what we have in our tanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[shred5]

Originally Posted by mfaso24

I have to disagree a little on this. When you go diving, the coloration of corals is actually much bleaker in comparison to what we have in our tanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A big part of that is because they collect the better looking corals for the hobby.. Why would they collect a brown coral it wont sell...

[slief]

Originally Posted by mfaso24

I have to disagree a little on this. When you go diving, the coloration of corals is actually much bleaker in comparison to what we have in our tanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He's actually right but you bring up a good point regarding the way corals look in nature vs what we see in some of our reefs. The reason coral looks so bleak in the ocean is because much for the red spectrum and other spectrums are filtered out by the water. The reason corals have the colors they do in our tanks is because of the artificial lighting and some of the color led's we use. Those colors such as the red diodes and green diodes don't do anything for growth. Instead they tend to make colors pop in corals that you wouldn't othersise see. Also, PAR is a great measurement tool for lighting intensity but since most PAR readers don't do a very good job reading the blue spectrum where corals get most of their needed photosynthetic radiation from (particularly 420nm-460nm), PAR becomes a much less useful tool for measuring light quality as it relates to our reefs. That blue spectrum is the primary lights spectrum that is left at the depth that many of or corals come from.

[HippieSmell]

Originally Posted by slief

That blue spectrum is the primary lights spectrum that is left at the depth that many of or corals come from.

Isn't there a lot of green and cyan left, as well?

[ComforablyNumb]

Originally Posted by HippieSmell

Since there's all this talk of spectrum, does anyone know what spectrum the ap700 puts out at the different settings? I can't find the info anywhere and customer support hasn't responded to my request.

I appreciate it

Only spectrum graphs I've seen are for the A360's. How different the 700 is, I have no idea but I doubt its very much.

[bif24701]

Originally Posted by ComforablyNumb

Only spectrum graphs I've seen are for the A360's. How different the 700 is, I have no idea but I doubt its very much.

The AP700 has marked improvement as shown by BRS Lighting/LED video recently. Wouldn't hurt to do some research before making bold general statements.


Aaron

180 Gallon Dream (Now Reality)
http://www.panhandlereefers.com/foru...Now-Reality%29

[bif24701]

Originally Posted by HippieSmell

Does anyone know what the spectrum chart is for the different settings on the ap700?

I have had lengthy discussions with Chan at Kessil he is incredibly helpful and insightful. There is no one spectral output graph for the AP700 that I know of due to the fact it is customizable. The AP700 includes "Kessil Logic" that will produce the right peaks for best coral growth and color that is independent of the kelvin/color you chose.

Here is Chan's email, fchan@kessil.com




Aaron

180 Gallon Dream (Now Reality)
http://www.panhandlereefers.com/foru...Now-Reality%29

[bif24701]

Originally Posted by Confuse

For those of you with AP 700's, how is your coral coloration? Specifically, red corals? I have yet to stack my tank with corals since I got my lights. Just wondering how you're linking the color.

Currently, the left side of the color wheel doesn't incorporate the red and green leds and when I adjust the red and green leds in the setpoints, my intensity gets turned down to 70% max.

Any opinions?

Contact Chan for the iPhone beta app, fchan@kessil.com. This new app lets you adjust the Reds and greens independently. I have two AP700 over my 180 and very happy with the color and growth. I have had the lights only ~3 months and with only about 12 SPS frags am using fully saturated Kalk for top off. They are growing very well considering only been recently acclimated. The colors do not appear washed out with blues, coverage is 200% better than 360sl, and they grow SPS of course. My reds and greens are very nice, balanced. Currently my lights are 7" above water, intensity peaks at 70% for three hours, and green/red @ 25% each. I had the 360s and no matter what spectrum you chose some color suffered leading to everyone useing the T5s to compensate.

In this video you can see my purple monti bottom left really nice pop. It was brown when I got it a month ago. I got a red digy today and I'll make a video with it if your interested. https://youtu.be/MAcm0CTVF3M


Aaron

180 Gallon Dream (Now Reality)
http://www.panhandlereefers.com/foru...Now-Reality%29

[bif24701]

Originally Posted by slief

He's actually right but you bring up a good point regarding the way corals look in nature vs what we see in some of our reefs. The reason coral looks so bleak in the ocean is because much for the red spectrum and other spectrums are filtered out by the water. The reason corals have the colors they do in our tanks is because of the artificial lighting and some of the color led's we use. Those colors such as the red diodes and green diodes don't do anything for growth. Instead they tend to make colors pop in corals that you wouldn't othersise see. Also, PAR is a great measurement tool for lighting intensity but since most PAR readers don't do a very good job reading the blue spectrum where corals get most of their needed photosynthetic radiation from (particularly 420nm-460nm), PAR becomes a much less useful tool for measuring light quality as it relates to our reefs. That blue spectrum is the primary lights spectrum that is left at the depth that many of or corals come from.

The "Kessil Logic" built in to the programming of the AP700 removes guess work. The logic will include the best spectrum for growth and color no matter your preferred color choice. You chose the timing and color you prefer to see, and select the intensity. I get 200 PAR at the corner sand bed at only 60%. These are powerful lights and I would suggest a using the Seneye to find your sweet spots.




Aaron

180 Gallon Dream (Now Reality)
http://www.panhandlereefers.com/foru...Now-Reality%29