Saltmix Parameters bring on the test results

[BigRedSpecial]

first time I've heard of it; I'll look it up. Thanks!

[indyjaco]

First time readying this and awesome work everyone. It will keep me using and leave the Salinity I have left for the QT tank.

My testing results for IO are very similar to the averages and thus i'll stick with it in the future.

[raythepilot]

I find this thread interesting but really unnecessary from my perspective.
I looked over my records for making synthetic sea water and came up with these results.

In the last 5 years I made over 500 batches using over 50 different lots of Instant Ocean salt mix. I am very careful making up the batches. I measure the water density using analytical methods; so, it is always 1.02626 -1.02646 at 25deg. C. approx. 35.0 +/- 0.1 ppt.
I have never checked any parameter in all that time except SG and temperature. I make sure any make up water is within +/- 0.2deg C. of the tank water.

I do 2 x 25% water changes per week on my tanks. I used to check NO4- and NH3 but they were always 0 so now I don’t bother.

As far as I know I have never had a bad batch since my anemones are find and I give my excess away.

Why should I be testing my water for anything?

BTW there is one thing that I record and that is the % of salt in the batch. This is the relative amount of mix I have to use to get to 35.0 ppt. This ranged from 84 – 88%.

[jason2459]

Brand	Date Taken	Temp	Salinity	Calcium	Alkalinity	Magnesium
Aquaforest Reef	5/12/2016	77F	35ppt	475	8.6	1590
	8/13/2016	77F	35ppt	450	8.16	1560
	8/19/2016	Triton	34.64ppt	448	NA	1553
	10/12/2016	AquaForest	33.59ppt	437	NA	1514
	10/12/2016	77F	35ppt	440	8.3	1530
AVG				450.00	8.35	1549.40
Aquaforest Sea Salt	10/12/2016	Triton	33.54ppt	465	NA	1532
	10/12/2016	AquaForest	32.84ppt	437		1482
	10/12/2016	77F	35ppt	440	8.9	1515
AVG				447.33	8.90	1509.67
Aquaforest ProBiotic	5/14/2016	Triton	32.63ppt	387	NA	1278
	8/19/2016	Triton	33.97ppt	413	NA	1512
	8/19/2016	77F	34.9ppt	420	7.04	1485
	10/12/2016	Triton	33.53ppt	412	NA	1516
	10/12/2016	AquaForest	33.52ppt	390	NA	1446
	10/12/2016	77F	35ppt	420	7.3	1500
AVG				407.00	7.17	1456.17
Aquatic Gardens	9/30/2009	77F	35ppt	430	8	1240
AVG				430.00	8.00	1240.00
Brightwell Neomarine	9/30/2009	77F	35ppt	370	11	1140
AVG				370.00	11.00	1140.00
Coralife	9/30/2009	77F	35ppt	560	9	1380
	6/13/2014	NA	1.026sg	450	9.5	1340
	9/8/2016	Triton	34.25ppt	535	NA	1449
	9/8/2016	77F	35ppt	515	8.96	1395
	10/12/2016	AquaForest	34.06ppt	540	8.7	1354
	10/12/2016	77F	35ppt	520	8.96	1380
AVG				520.00	9.02	1383.00
Crystal Sea Marinemix	9/30/2009	77F	35ppt	340	9	1050
AVG				340.00	9.00	1050.00
D-D H2Ocean	9/30/2009	77F	35ppt	450	10	1380
AVG				450.00	10.00	1380.00
E.S.V.	1/30/2016	77F	1.026sg	450	9	1400
AVG				450.00	9.00	1400.00
Fritz Pro Reef	3/14/2016	78.9	1.026sg	440	8.5	1500
	5/5/2016	25C	35ppt	430	8.95	1410
AVG				435.00	8.73	1455.00
Instant Ocean	9/30/2009	77F	35ppt	400	11	1350
	1/25/2016	77.2F	35ppt	410	10.4	1320
	8/24/2016	Triton	34.07ppt	409.4	NA	1351
	3/2/2016	77F	35ppt	405	10.9	1275
	3/3/2016	77F	35ppt	410	11.2	1275
	3/3/2016	Triton	35.67ppt	423	NA	1309
	10/12/2016	AquaForest	33.94ppt	412	10.4	1304
	10/12/2016	77F	35ppt	405	10.2	1320
AVG				409.30	10.68	1313.00
hw-Marine Mix Reefer	3/14/2016	78.6	1.026	440	8.6	1380
	5/8/2016	77F	1.026	430	8.6	1260
	5/9/2016	78F	1.026	420	8.9	1280
AVG				430.00	8.70	1306.67
Kent	9/30/2009	77F	35ppt	540	11	1200
AVG				540.00	11.00	1200.00
Kordon Coral Sea	3/15/2016	82F	34.5ppt	360	10	1200
AVG				360.00	10.00	1200.00
Marine Environment	9/30/2009	77F	35ppt	480	7.5	1450
AVG				480.00	7.50	1450.00
Oceanic	9/30/2009	77F	35ppt	580	8.5	1650
AVG				580.00	8.50	1650.00
OceanPure	9/30/2009	77F	35ppt	510	10	1320
AVG				510.00	10.00	1320.00
Red Sea	9/30/2009	77F	35ppt	400	8	1300
	5/15/2015	~20C	35ppt	434	8.8	1280
	11/7/2015	~20C	35ppt	446	8	1288
AVG				426.67	8.27	1289.33
Red Sea Coral Pro	9/30/2009	77F	35ppt	470	12.5	1400
	5/9/2016	78F	1.026sg	480	12.32	1470
	8/19/2016	Triton	33.08ppt	441	NA	1436
	8/19/2016	77F	35ppt	460	12.16	1440
sleepdoc's	10/12/2016	77F	35ppt	450	8.9	1350
sleepdoc's	10/12/2016	AquaForest	33.55ppt	440	9.3	1340
	10/12/2016	77F	35ppt	440	11.84	1410
	10/12/2016	AquaForest	34.6ppt	434	9.5	1363
AVG				451.88	10.93	1401.13
Reef Crystals	9/30/2009	77F	35ppt	490	13	1440
	1/30/2016	78F	35ppt	440	15	1240
	2/25/2016		1.027sg	450	10.3	1350
	3/14/2016	77F	35ppt	550	11.8	1560
	3/15/2016	77F	35ppt	530	12.2	1530
	3/22/2016	Triton	34.99ppt	574.6	NA	1510
	10/12/2016	AquaForest	35.25ppt	517	10.7	1378
	10/12/2016	77F	35ppt	510	11.68	1485
AVG				507.70	12.10	1436.63
Reefer's Best	9/30/2009	77F	35ppt	420	11	1200
AVG				420.00	11.00	1200.00
SeaChem aquavitro salinity	9/30/2009	77F	35ppt	422	9.8	1336
	5/29/2015		1.026sg	430	9.2	1225
	1/31/2016		35ppt	435	8.3	1310
	5/10/2016	77F	35ppt	425	8.6	1335
	5/20/2016	Triton	37.18ppt	466	NA	1234
	9/20/2016	Triton	33.05ppt	395	NA	1350
	9/20/2016	AquaForest	35.06ppt	410	NA	1336
	9/20/2016	77F	35ppt	420	8.96	1335
AVG				425.38	8.97	1307.63
SeaChem Marine Salt	9/30/2009	77F	35ppt	500	10	1400
AVG				500.00	10.00	1400.00
SeaChem Reef Salt	9/30/2009	77F	35ppt	540	10	1450
	5/9/2016	78F	1.026sg	527	10.47	1200
	10/12/2016	Triton	35.39ppt	528	NA	1520
	10/12/2016	AquaForest	33.91ppt	504	NA	1409
	10/12/2016	77F	35ppt	520	8.3	1515
AVG				523.80	9.59	1418.80
Triton's Pure Salt	10/12/2016	77F	35ppt	705	0.96	1620
	10/12/2016	Triton	35.06ppt	728	NA	1663
	10/12/2016	AquaForest	34.45ppt	691	1.7	1549
AVG				708.00	1.33	1610.67
Tropic Marin Pro Reef	9/30/2009	77F	35ppt	450	8.5	1380
	3/22/2016	77F	35ppt	445	7	1350
	4/9/2016	77F	35ppt	465	7.3	1425
	4/9/2016	Triton	34.74ppt	475.3	NA	1442
	5/9/2016	78F	1.026sg	470	6.6	1350
	5/16/2016	Triton	35.41ppt	460.6	NA	1381
AVG				460.98	7.35	1388.00
Tunze Reef Salt	9/30/2009	77F	35ppt	420	9.5	1350
AVG				420.00	9.50	1350.00

[jason2459]

I think that will do for now. I have no idea why it keeps all the space above the table.

[bertoni]

Cool! I'll take a look at the formatting.

[bertoni]

The spaces are from the newlines in the table. For whatever reason, the html formatter does not delete them. Thanks for the data!

[Potatohead]

It seems crazy how many salts are not even close to the advertised numbers. RSCP at 9-9.5 alk? AF Reef at 475 calcium and 1600 (!!) mag? Is it really that hard to get these numbers right? Mix the stuff the same amounts each time maybe...?

[jason2459]

Originally Posted by Potatohead

It seems crazy how many salts are not even close to the advertised numbers. RSCP at 9-9.5 alk? AF Reef at 475 calcium and 1600 (!!) mag? Is it really that hard to get these numbers right? Mix the stuff the same amounts each time maybe...?

Keep in mind most salts advertise levels at different salinity levels and usually below 35ppt. When brought up to 35ppt all levels are then elevated equally above the advertised amounts.

[bif24701]

Have you gotten a chance to look t Fritz RPM? Seems many are giving it a try in there systems.


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[jason2459]

Originally Posted by bif24701

Have you gotten a chance to look t Fritz RPM? Seems many are giving it a try in there systems.


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I haven't yet. Looks like a good salt.

[raythepilot]

Re: jason2459 table
I am confused by your table?
Are these your actual test results? because I don't understand what's going on in the temperature column when you list Tritron and Aquaforest.

Also salinity has a lot of weird entries and how was the salinity determined?

Finally the what method was used for determining Ca, Mg and Alk?

[jason2459]

Anything I did I posted my methods at the beginning of this thread. It's detailed and done so I can do the tests the exact same way every time with any salt brand to reduce variables. Temp isn't exactly necessary if using a method that has a functioning ATC and temp is reasonable.

I use a conductivity probe and my veegee refractometer for salinity and Salifert for Ca, Alk, and Mg.

I have been sending all salts I've tested in for ICP-OES analysis as well which is what you see there as listed Triton and AquaForest as temp is well extremely hot. Plasma. Triton also does not provide alkalinity readings so that shows NA.

There are some entries from others and have provided specific gravity of the salt mixed.

[bdare]

I would love to see some updated numbers for Tunze salt. Looks like it has the best numbers to me.

[bbgobie]

So based on the test results is there any salts that look like early winners?

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[jason2459]

Originally Posted by bdare

I would love to see some updated numbers for Tunze salt. Looks like it has the best numbers to me.

I can try.

Originally Posted by bbgobie

So based on the test results is there any salts that look like early winners?

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Well, what kind of parameters are you looking for in a salt. Like some want lower alk and some want a slightly higher alk which will influence dosing or not dosing. Some that dose limewater find that Ca could creep up so would rather have a lower Ca mix. Etc.

For me I have gotten out of it a couple brands I wouldn't use based on results and mixing and a few I wouldn't mind trying. Like I like the parameters of Red Sea regular non-pro. If I wanted a higher Ca mix I'd look at Coralife. But I do not like the few tests from Triton and Aquaforest on the Aquaforest saltmix with really low Sulfate. I didn't like how salinity mixed as the few times I tried it was the only mix that had some kind of undissolved particles on the bottom and not all white. Then personally since I store and use my saltmixes over a long period of time I don't want any that includes organics of any kind like vitamins, aminos, probiotics, etc. Like Reef Crystals. If the cost wasn't so high I do really like the Tropic Marine.

And in the end I'm still liking and happy with basic cheap IO.

[bbgobie]

For me my goal would be to keep stable levels close to our slightly above NSW. I only really know about the main 3. All the other trace minerals I don't have an understanding of what I should be looking for. I also store premixed salt so wouldn't want organics in it. Was thinking of trying Aquaforest, not sure if I need Sulphur?

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[bbgobie]

Additional info. Tank is new sps, dosing kalk, will probably dose 2 part once demand needed.

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[bertoni]

I'm not sure what you mean by sulfur. Sulfur is present in seawater as sulfate, and there's a lot of it. It'd take a very bad salt mix to have a problem there. Unfortunately, we do see some bad batches from time to time. Is there a specific problem you're trying to solve?

[jason2459]

Originally Posted by bbgobie

For me my goal would be to keep stable levels close to our slightly above NSW. I only really know about the main 3. All the other trace minerals I don't have an understanding of what I should be looking for. I also store premixed salt so wouldn't want organics in it. Was thinking of trying Aquaforest, not sure if I need Sulphur?

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I would not put much emphasis on trying to keep up with trace elements. But Sulfate is a major ion in seawater which some of the Aquaforest mixes tested quite low on.

[bbgobie]

I guess I'm just seeing if there's a salt that is easier to mix, reasonably similar in price and at the same time might be better for my tank than IO

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[jason2459]

Originally Posted by bbgobie

I guess I'm just seeing if there's a salt that is easier to mix, reasonably similar in price and at the same time might be better for my tank than IO

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Plenty of good options. Redsea, Fritz RPM, Tropic Marine, etc. All good salts. Most similar in price to IO would be Coralife from Doctor Foster and Smith that has been only a few dollars more then IO for a 200g box. (you get 4 50g bags per box).

Why do you think IO is not good for your tank?

[bbgobie]

I'm not saying it's bad, but if there's something that might be better why not try it out? I'm using IP because that's what everyone was using when I started in the hobby. At lot has changed, we have improved our tanks in many different ways. If there's new information that suggests there's better alternatives than I'd be interested.

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[jason2459]

Originally Posted by bbgobie

I'm not saying it's bad, but if there's something that might be better why not try it out? I'm using IP because that's what everyone was using when I started in the hobby. At lot has changed, we have improved our tanks in many different ways. If there's new information that suggests there's better alternatives than I'd be interested.

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I guess one thing I've shown in all the testing is that not much has changed in regards to the saltmix parameters from when they were tested back in 2009. The what you can expect average pretty much is what was tested and could be expected back then. But it has been only about 8 years. In the life of a tank to me that's just starting to get mature.

If anything there's been more popularization in the past 5 years or so in not doing water changes or greatly reducing them like the Triton Method or GlennF's dutch synthetic reefing. But that's another topic for another thread which has been hashed out many times over.

I really have no recommendation for a single best salt. I have my preference to what I pick for me but that's it. Pick one close to the parameters you'd want to start with as a baseline and dose up (or down) from there. Or not at all in some cases.

And really I'm sorry I can't help more then that but it really is just personal preference and based on how or what you want to maintain. Many other people though I'm sure will tell you what they believe is the best salt ever which is really not what this thread is about.

[Stickboy97]

WOW, great thread & thanks for all the hard work! I am about to start a new 105g and want to do SPS. I have been trying to figure out what salt mix to buy and this helps a lot. I've been asking different reefers, that do mostly SPS, what their levels are, so now I have a baseline to pick a salt.

thanks again!