New EcoTech Marine Vectra Return Pump

[sbarkey]

Originally Posted by Chris155hp

So no apex wxm compatibility As of now???

Out the gate, it doesn't sound like it, but the functionality to integrate down the road is there and is only a matter of time!

[rjallen]

My guess an Apex WXM will give at least basic control ability. Programming will pretty much be on the user and the WXM will not have the ability to control values such as flow rate and pressure.

In a short time, Apex programmers will come up with all sorts of programing.


RJA

[slief]

Originally Posted by rjallen

My guess an Apex WXM will give at least basic control ability. Programming will pretty much be on the user and the WXM will not have the ability to control values such as flow rate and pressure.

In a short time, Apex programmers will come up with all sorts of programing.


RJA

I agree. Should work with WXM and programming it just like any other 0-10v pump or Vortech for that matter will be a breeze. I'm pretty sure Apex compatibility is more a formality than anything else and just a matter of Neptune signing off on it or some firmware changes to the WXM or the pumps controller. Of course this is speculation on my part but I just don't see Ecotech snubbing all the Apex users who are already using Vortechs with the WXM modules. It's been long said that the Apex allows for much more control of the Vortechs in terms of flow profiles than Ecotech Live so there is a value in my opinion on having these pumps Apex compatible. Clearly that feature would result in increased sales or loss in sales if it weren't compatible as many of us deep into our Apex programming would require that feature.

[rjallen]

Originally Posted by slief

I agree. Should work with WXM and programming it just like any other 0-10v pump or Vortech for that matter will be a breeze. I'm pretty sure Apex compatibility is more a formality than anything else and just a matter of Neptune signing off on it or some firmware changes to the WXM or the pumps controller. Of course this is speculation on my part but I just don't see Ecotech snubbing all the Apex users who are already using Vortechs with the WXM modules. It's been long said that the Apex allows for much more control of the Vortechs in terms of flow profiles than Ecotech Live so there is a value in my opinion on having these pumps Apex compatible. Clearly that feature would result in increased sales or loss in sales if it weren't compatible as many of us deep into our Apex programming would require that feature.

I sent a question about Apex compatibility in to Jake as I am sure others did. Ecotech deflected the question. I know Ecotech wants the sun to shine on their product right now but, up to this point, the company has profitted from their relatiionship with Neptune. A straight forward answer is needed.

I think the more important question is: will the WXM module handle all the capability of the Vectra and, if not, does Neptune have plans to upgrade, [perhaps with only a firm ware update?]. Do not wish to waste money on an old WMX only to see another new unit take its place.

With the pending release of the Wave, I wonder how close the Neptune/ Ecotech relationship is at this point. That said, I think I will purchase a Vectra M1 soon as it is a real improvement over my old Mag18.

RJA

RJA

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by rjallen

I sent a question about Apex compatibility in to Jake as I am sure others did. Ecotech deflected the question. I know Ecotech wants the sun to shine on their product right now but, up to this point, the company has profitted from their relatiionship with Neptune. A straight forward answer is needed.

Pretty much what ETM did with the QD vortechs. No clear answer other than vague "neptune will have to work it out. Then, ultimately, WXM compatibility was not a problem. ETM products are first rate, but they're not so good at answering 'tough' questions.

[nikon187]

Apparently they arent going to be sold in canada either?!? dont meet csa regulations.

[ksed]

What!

Originally Posted by nikon187

Apparently they arent going to be sold in canada either?!? dont meet csa regulations.

[nikon187]

thats what our owner here at the store said when talking to the rep on friday

[ksed]

They will be in time. They are working on it. In the mean time you can purchase it from U.S. suppliers.

[slief]

Originally Posted by ksed

They will be in time. They are working on it. In the mean time you can purchase it from U.S. suppliers.

I agree. It's just a formality likely a result of the required UL or EMI type testing for Canada that is different than those required in the US. My first guess is that it would be on the power supply but it could be an emissions test that would require testing of the power supply, controller and pump to insure that there aren't harmful electronic or EMI emissions. Like I said, it's just a temporary formality and the simple work around is to buy it from a US reseller until they get their tests completed or signed off on UL or who ever they are using for their testing.

[nikon187]

unless something major happens and insurance is involved, then you are sol if not csa listed. Never think anything like that would happen with ET but still...

[shred5]

Originally Posted by tigger2577

You forgot storm mode. This will work together with vortex and lights.

Why would you want this with a return pump? It sound like most of the stuff is useless. What else do you need in flow for a return pump other than setting the speed .. Changing the flow with a return pump will cause level and flow changes in the sump and the tank. This will cause skimmers to stop working or even over flow. It can make top off systems go on and off or alarm if it is like mine.. It sound like a bunch of toys you dont need or even want.

[jedimasterben]

Originally Posted by shred5

Why would you want this with a return pump? It sound like most of the stuff is useless. What else do you need in flow for a return pump other than setting the speed .. Changing the flow with a return pump will cause level and flow changes in the sump and the tank. This will cause skimmers to stop working or even over flow. It can make top off systems go on and off or alarm if it is like mine.. It sound like a bunch of toys you dont need or even want.

This. More efficient and adjustable pumps are a welcomed sight in this hobby, as gone are the days of needing a ball valve on the output to adjust flow, just listen to Ron Popeil.




Plus (generally) increased efficiency is always a good thing!


Now, if this were for a closed loop ONLY, then yes, these additional modes can have value, especially having a pair of the pumps running two separate loops.

[shred5]

Originally Posted by jedimasterben

This. More efficient and adjustable pumps are a welcomed sight in this hobby, as gone are the days of needing a ball valve on the output to adjust flow, just listen to Ron Popeil.




Plus (generally) increased efficiency is always a good thing!


Now, if this were for a closed loop ONLY, then yes, these additional modes can have value, especially having a pair of the pumps running two separate loops.

What does that have to do with my post? I am talking storm mode on a return pump.. I could see a closed loop ...

[jedimasterben]

Originally Posted by shred5

What does that have to do with my post? I am talking storm mode on a return pump.. I could see a closed loop ...

I was agreeing that these modes were useless on return pumps, but not for closed loops.

[unze]

Why would you want this with a return pump? It sound like most of the stuff is useless. What else do you need in flow for a return pump other than setting the speed .. Changing the flow with a return pump will cause level and flow changes in the sump and the tank.

So agree, all the fancy control etc is useless, return pumps are generally on 24/7 .

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by shred5

Why would you want this with a return pump? It sound like most of the stuff is useless.

Personally, I don't agree. I think there are a whole lot of things a truly 'smart' pump could do, even as a return pump - including alerting you to flow restrictions/blockage, dynamic balancing of a herbie drain, or avoiding the use of electricity-wasting ball valves. I think it's pretty darn cool actually. Add to that the fact that it doesn't really carry all that much of a premium over competing, quality pumps and it seems like a winner to me.

[shred5]

Originally Posted by ca1ore

Personally, I don't agree. I think there are a whole lot of things a truly 'smart' pump could do, even as a return pump - including alerting you to flow restrictions/blockage, dynamic balancing of a herbie drain, or avoiding the use of electricity-wasting ball valves. I think it's pretty darn cool actually. Add to that that fact that it doesn't really carry all that much of a premium over competing, quality pumps and it seems like a winner to me.

I think it is funny when people dont even read my post and reply and start putting words in my mouth about things I was never talking about.

[805reef]

Originally Posted by unze

So agree, all the fancy control etc is useless, return pumps are generally on 24/7 .

I agree that some(most) of the fancy control possibilities that were mentioned in the Q&A are nice to think about but when being used as a return pump most people will set them to the desired level and that's that.

The thing is though that these pumps are being marketed as just a return pump. That's where it being a DC pump changes it all up. Just like with the RD pumps (and other dc pumps) you can do so much more with them. Closed loop is the mostly talked about alternative but you can also use smaller dc pumps to run reactors so you can set the exact pump level instead of dialing down with a ball valve.

When the ecotech rep very briefly talked about the possibility of this pump being used on a skimmer I got very interested. I don't know if ecotech will come out with their own skimmer using the M1 or if another manufacturer will in collaboration with ecotech but it will should sweet either way.

Also I thought the feed mode (when used as a return pump) was pretty cool. Instead of just shutting the pump off it will be set to the lowest level that trickles water in the tank so that no air gets in the lines. No more huge gushes or air when starting the return back up.

I think ecotech is taking the DC pumps to the next level. ESL will make it very easy to do a lot of this but also apex/wxm will be able to do most of the same stuff with a little thinking and programming.

[rjallen]

Closed loops have gone out of fashion with hang on the glass prop. providing water movement and some are "smart". With the costs of Tunze or Vortech programmable pumps, you might actually save a buck or two using 2 closed loop circuits and 2 DC "smart" pumps like the Vectra M1 or L1. Each loop would have multiple closed loop returns. Solenoid valves could give the reefer more control for less money.

Alternately, the return pump could be used to supplement existing prop. pumps. Like all new technology, the more we become familiar with the product, the more we will find ways to use it.

RJA

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by shred5

I think it is funny when people dont even read my post and reply and start putting words in my mouth about things I was never talking about.

Glad you're amused. I did read your post, though didn't quote it all. If what you wrote is not what you meant, perhaps you simply need to be clearer next time.

[GroktheCube]

Just in time for my new build! I'll definitely be buying one of these when they are available.

[ca1ore]

The more I think about it the more interesting this becomes. I wonder if it would be possible to auto adjust a herbie drain with this pump. Mount a pair of reed floats into the overflow such that the pump would attenuate flow to maintain the correct level. Wouldn't replace periodic maintenance, but it could mean a whole lot less fussing.

[joshky]

So it's official, I bartered with my LFS, some of my corals from my 20g that I was selling for the M1 Vectra return. Now the 2,000gph is pretty excessive to run on a single return for an 80g, any pointers on a starting point?

[acesq]

Originally Posted by ca1ore

The more I think about it the more interesting this becomes. I wonder if it would be possible to auto adjust a herbie drain with this pump. Mount a pair of reed floats into the overflow such that the pump would attenuate flow to maintain the correct level. Wouldn't replace periodic maintenance, but it could mean a whole lot less fussing.

I don't know that you need that. I understand that the pump is self regulating to maintain a particular flow rate by adjusting to changes in back pressure. Now that I'm writing this, it seems impossible, but that is what I thought I heard the EM rep explain. I'll have to go back and listen to it again.