Let's talk about water quality in an SPS tank.

[vair]

Thanks Joe
I was looking at the Deltec fluidized reactor (just bought a Calcium reactor from them) but for my size of tank it's like $741.00 I thought that was a bit steep for what it does. Thats as much as a calcium reactor!?

Dave

[JB NY]

I'm using their smallest one. I only use 60ml of rowaphos in my system (280 gallons), so I plan on dumping my carbon in there as well.

[FragGuy]

Joe,

I thought that the TLF Phosban reactor was not a Fluidized reactor. Isn't the media sandwiched tightly in the chamber?

I was running ROWA fluidized and it always seemed to cloud the water for me. Even at low flow levels, so I was considering the TLF model but not if it's fluidized as well.

[JB NY]

The TLF is a fludized reactor as well.

[FragGuy]

I recall someone (maybe even Julian) stating that ....the media when placed in the reactor should be sandwiched tightly between the two pads, otherwise the constant friction when fluidized would break up the media into fine particles. I think this is even more important with PhosBan vs. ROWA.

Is that the way you use it or is it Fluidized? and if it is Fluidized, does it break up for you?

Sorry about the thread detour guys.

[vair]

Rowaphos should be in a fluidized reactor. I've heard not to put carbon in one as it will break it down.

Dave

[gcarroll]

I use both carbon and phosban in two reactors. water goes through the carbon then into the phosban. The flow is only set high enough to fluidize the phosban.

[Lowredranger]

JB NY i saw that you used to juse the PO4 minus with good results is there any hints you can give me to start using it. i have read that you do not want to improve the quality of the water too quickly and also wondered on the use of the AZno3 which was mentioned in the description of PO4 on marine depot as being good to use them both together and the skimmer will take out the binded nitrates and phosphates. i unfourtunatly made the mistake of getting nice live rock although there has been substantial die off and am haveing a problem with nitrates the system is about 65g i change 10g weekly. AquaC remora skiimmer that does not collect enough gunk in my opinion for my water parameters. tank setup about 5 months ago. thanks for any help
Jason

[JB NY]

I used PO4 minus as per the instructions. I had used it for about two years but stopped when I started using GFO's.

I don't buy the improving water quality too quickly theory. I think if you go from very dirty (yellow) water to very clear in a few hours or a day, then you could possibly bleach some corals, but other than that I don't really think that improving the water quality will cause problems.

I have not tried AZno3, sorry.

I set up my tank wth all uncured live rock. It took about 6 weeks for all my NO3 to be at zero, but I have not had any nitrate problems since.

[Lowredranger]

thanks for the info i just think my main problem is i never did any heavy scrubbing of the sponges when i got the rock and i think some of them have just been slowly decaying as time goes on not allowing me to get my nitrates down to zero along with my skimmer not working up to par. thanks again
Jason

[Fliger]

Originally posted by vair
Thanks Joe
I was looking at the Deltec fluidized reactor (just bought a Calcium reactor from them) but for my size of tank it's like $741.00 I thought that was a bit steep for what it does. Thats as much as a calcium reactor!?

Dave

I personally think the FR509 is adequate on a tank our size. I know you can use more than 1L of ROWA, but I wouldn't do it. It's $200 - and is great.

I also have a couple TFL for Carbon and such - very decent little units - but they can be a PITA with all the thumbscrews. I think they're more suited to smaller tanks, where the media won't be exhausted quite so quickly.

If you're looking to maximize time, just get the FR509, or get two of them - one for carbon and one for ROWA. The bayonette twist-off is great. I just put the ROWA online and so far so good. Be sure to start off slow. I do not believe in the PO4 theory - I think it's nonsense. I think it has to do more with ph/alk fluctuations - and possibly the addition or iron into your system.

I'll tell ya - running the carbon through a reactor is awesome. If I take it offline for a few days, I know it. My water is CRYSTAL clear with the reactor. The difference in light penetration is astounding.

Here is a good article ...

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-11/rhf/index.htm

One other thing I noticed - most po4 test kits are worthless. I'm a huge Salifert fan but their po4 kit is a waste of money, IME. The only decent one I've used that gives me a steady, easy to read value is the Merck/Deltec kit. It's expensive, but I think it's worth it.

[Obi-dad]

Originally posted by Fliger
I do not believe in the PO4 theory - I think it's nonsense.

What PO4 theory are you talking about?

[Fliger]

That a sudden drop on po4 will kill corals. Corals go from tank to tank with no problem. I think it's a combination of shifts in alk, ph, and possibly the new "research" about iron. Possibly even ORP shift, or that GFO's can also pull out other things, like Magnesium. Maybe the po4 is a part, but I think it's a small part, if any. All the other things that GFO's shift are bad things, reducing po4 is the only good one.

[ssbreef]

bump

[minsmarine]

Originally posted by Fliger
That a sudden drop on po4 will kill corals. Corals go from tank to tank with no problem. I think it's a combination of shifts in alk, ph, and possibly the new "research" about iron. Possibly even ORP shift, or that GFO's can also pull out other things, like Magnesium. Maybe the po4 is a part, but I think it's a small part, if any. All the other things that GFO's shift are bad things, reducing po4 is the only good one.

I don't believe it either and experiened TWICE :P

My tank was 1.00 ppm PO4 , than I use 1L of PO4 absorber in FR driven by 4,800L/hr pump. In 6 hrs time my PO4 undetachable. Salifest kit was used.
It was twice ( changed absorber ), and so far it's already 6 months ( and time to change again ) and nothing happen to all my 30+ colonies :P

No stress was seen in first a few hours, a few days and now a few months.

[Psionicdragon]

Nice thread. I finally got through from beginning to last.

There is a lot of information on this thread and I was wondering if I can get a few questions answered on terms.

I would also like to ask if you guys can help me figure out my situation in my tank.


-What is GFC?
-A Phosphate removal media can be mixed with carbon in a fluidized bed?
-When you are talking about using how often you clean your glass as an indicator (which is really brilliant!), do you mean how thick the algae is on the window before you clean it or how fast the thin layer of algae forms on the glass?

The following thread was started on 6/13 and this thread contains my situation:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...41#post5121641

Thanks!

[JB NY]

Originally posted by Psionicdragon
-What is GFC?

GFO. Granular ferric oxide. Those PO4 removers such as Rowaphos, Phosban and Phosphate Killer.

-A Phosphate removal media can be mixed with carbon in a fluidized bed?

I would not mix GFO and carbon, but I do run it with carbon after the GFO.

-When you are talking about using how often you clean your glass as an indicator (which is really brilliant!), do you mean how thick the algae is on the window before you clean it or how fast the thin layer of algae forms on the glass?

thin layer of haze. How long you go between glass cleanings is how long it takes before a slight build up of algae slightly obstructs the view.

[Psionicdragon]

Thanks, I might've missed GFC in the earlier post.

I think I misread about your phosphate media and carbon media too. hehe

[Nathan]

Question:

How long does (eg, 3 tablespoons) of GFO last in your tank before changing it?

I know it "all depends", but I am fighting a phosphate problem (so my water isn't perfect). I have to clean the glass daily (used to get that dusting after about 1/2 an hour, then cleaned it three times a day, now just once a day). I used 6 tablespoons of the stuff for a week in a media bag and I think it's exhausted. Is this stuff supposed to last for months and months, or should it be treated like activated carbon and removed/replaced weekly or bi-monthly?

I have a 180g.

-Nathan

[Fliger]

Originally posted by Nathan
Question:

How long does (eg, 3 tablespoons) of GFO last in your tank before changing it?

I know it "all depends", but I am fighting a phosphate problem (so my water isn't perfect). I have to clean the glass daily (used to get that dusting after about 1/2 an hour, then cleaned it three times a day, now just once a day). I used 6 tablespoons of the stuff for a week in a media bag and I think it's exhausted. Is this stuff supposed to last for months and months, or should it be treated like activated carbon and removed/replaced weekly or bi-monthly?

I have a 180g.

-Nathan

If you have heavy phosphates, 6 tbsp will probably last a few minutes. You stated it, it all depends. Theoretically, you can measure your po4 (accurately!), multiply it by your water volume, and figure out exactly how much GFO you will need to get rid off your po4.

GFO is like a container. It can only hold a certain amount of po4. Six tbsp in a 180G phosphate laden tank is like trying to pour a gallon of water in a Gerber jar.

[JB NY]

I change mine out once a month. I think if you need more that's fine. I think it's best used when changed once a month with the proper amount. Wether that is 2 tablespoons or 2 liters, doesn't matter. I just think it is best to start out with a small amount and gradually increase it till you find the level that your tank needs.

But I think the amount you settle on, should be enough to last a month.

[Nathan]

I use PhosLock which is a moist granule/powder mixture. I have the 500g variety and it says it's good for up to 900gallon tank.

I see people using the term ml, or liter, which leads me to believe that they are using some form of LIQUID GFO, since ml and liter are liquid measurements. Is this a misnomer? When measuring a solid especially powder the correct terminology should be grams, or table/teaspoons, right? How many grams is 60ml of GFO (assuming that it is solid not liquid)?

-Nathan

[JB NY]

For some reason the a lot of the manufactures use the ml measurement for their product. FWIW 60ml is 1/2cup.

[Nathan]

Thanks JB NY!

I was thinking that 60ml was more like 2 tablespoons! But I see that it's a lot more. Looks like I've been conservative with my use so far. But that is good. Go slow...

-Nathan

[LittleBlueGT]

Originally posted by JB NY
For some reason the a lot of the manufactures use the ml measurement for their product. FWIW 60ml is 1/2cup.

Sorry to disagree with you, but, 240 ml is one cup. Do a Google search , you will see.