SolaTubes for reef tanks

[SAT]

Originally posted by cali_reef
I don't think he will need much supplement lighting, even in the winter month. He lives Tehachapi; he should have more than enough light if he has the dome facing the right direction.

The domes are usually installed straight up, which is required for them to be weather proof (I suppose some brands might be different). In June the sun comes almost straight down. In December it's at significant angle, which has two effects. First, the light will be bouncing around the tube a lot more, losing some energy on each bounce. Second, the light comes out the bottom at the same angle it entered, hitting the sides of the cabinet instead of heading into the tank.

A pair of 13" tubes will probably yield about 1/2 the light of one of my 21" tubes (taking into account the smaller area and the increased reflections in a narrower tube). I think a 21" tube is about equal to a 250W MH bulb.

[reefsociety101]

It seems like the tank running the Solatubes is covered in algae. Ae you experiencing rapid growth of algae with the sun tubes?

_Mike

[SAT]

Originally posted by reefsociety101
It seems like the tank running the Solatubes is covered in algae. Ae you experiencing rapid growth of algae with the sun tubes?

At the time the tank was still unstable and finishing up a cyano bloom (which was really ugly ). Yes, I grow a tremendous amount of algae of many different species, but no species predominates (luckily the Bryopsis and Valonia have been well behaved). Mostly the herbivores keep up. Nothing of consequence has been choked by the algae, including my Pterogorgia, which is notorious for that. I do have to pull out a few handfulls of Caulerpa and red & green hair algae clumps on a weekly basis (my snails ignore hair algae on the sand). The front glass needs cleaning about once a week.

BTW, my phosphates and nitrates are unmeasurable (PO4 << 0.05ppm; NO3 << 1ppm). I dose silicate and iron to promote diatoms and macros. I run skimmerless with an ATS. I feed about 1g of "Forumula 2" pellets and 1 oz of DT's daily to keep the cleanup crew & filter feeders happy. No fish yet.

My opinion is light spectrum has much less to do with algae blooms than nutrients and herbivores. I think the old adage about sunlight & algae comes from old books about FO tanks.

[reefsociety101]

Awesome. I will be moving into a house soon and really contemplating solatubes. Would you recommend it personally?

_Mike

[SAT]

I love my tubes. However, I don't want to set unrealistic expectations: you will almost certainly need to supplement with other lights, especially during the winter unless you live in the tropics. I think they will pay for themselves eventually in lower energy bills. I think the light they produce has a higher quality spectrum than any artificial lamp. And I really like the look of it.

[lead]

Stuart,

How is the tank coming? Do you have any pictures? I am starting to break ground on my new home and I need to mak a decision about the solar tubs. I was wanting to see some pictures again if possible. I sure would appreciate it. It will help me in making my decision. I am most likely going to do it.
Thanks
Lead

[reefsociety101]

I wish people would post more pictures instead of just claiming that there so great, I have yet to see a tank that is worth while using solatubes. It mostly yellowed watered and algae filled tanks. I hope someone proves me wrong because this will be a great advancement to our hobby.

[reefsociety101]

I been trying to get research on this very topic and havent found much, no pictures or any long term success with harder reef species like SPS, Seems like most people are just growing algae. It seems like the people on this very thread are early adopters and pioneers and deserve a pat on the back for exploring.

I look foward to see an advancement in this area. Just wish I had a house to try it on. *Smile.

Lets keep this thread alive but with more pictures! *Smile.

[lead]

reefsociety101,

There is a guy were in Idaho (believes this are not) that a 3000 gal saltwater pond outside. I wish that I had a digital camera to show you. He has some algae but he has been working on this problem for a while. He has found out so far if he controls his phosate levels and disolved organics material in his water. He has less algae problems. I am currently working with this guy on the algae problem. All the reading that I have done on the subject of algae problem has always come back to three problems. Two of those problems deal with water quality. Algea needs two basic two elements to grow. They need phosate and light. If you control just one of these elements algae can not grow. I believe in order for the solar tubes to work. Your water quality has to be top priority or you will have a large amount of algea growth. Part of my reading has talked about the type of light that algae needs. Algae responds to the red wavelenght mostly. I have a suggestion if someone wants to try it. I would try it myself, but I am 4-6 months from being in my new home. You know how construction goes. Has anyone tried to filter out the red spectrum? What I was thinking is you could get a piece of glass and have it tinted. I know there is tints out there that will limit the amount of red light in. This will probably lower the intensity of the tubes, but it will help in the algae growth. By the way, I placed some sps corals in this pond. They seem to be doing Okay. It has only been a couple of weeks.
Lead

[SAT]

Lead,

Structurally my tank still looks about the same as in the previous photos. The main difference is in the algae growth... no cyano, lots more coralline, more macros of various flavors, and some annoying hair algae (hasn't choked anything). If you're expecting some conclusions about coral growth, I think you'll have to wait another year -- and my tank isn't a good test bed anway if you're interested in Acropora or other very bright light species (can't get Caribbean species and I don't think my light is that bright anyway).

I agree with your comments about algae growth except I don't know if I believe the bit about red light. Everything I've seen about spectral effects on algae seem to be anecdotal. Do you have any references to controlled studies? In any case, I don't know why sunlight would foster algae growth more than the 6500K bulbs that many people use. The average color temperature is about the same.

If you want to filter out the red, I suggest getting a photographic filter of the sort that fits over a lamp and converts "tungsten" to "daylight". B&H sells a 4'x24' roll of Rosco Tungsten Conversion Filter (in various densities) for $106.95. In practice, however, I don't find the light is so bright that I want to lose any of it.

As for yellow water... I think that's a water management issue, not a lighting problem. Blue light may mask yellow water but won't prevent it.

[Agu]

To claim that natural sunlight causes algae growth is correct, but so will artificial light if other parameters are appropriate for algae growth. Sat's pics were of a new tank still cycling so it's not fair to conclude natural light causes algae and yellow water.

I'm currently running an "experimental" tank that sits directly in front of a west facing window. It gets diffused light for half the day and direct sunlight for the other half day with no supplemental lighting. Granted I have several gulf macros in the tank to use nutrients but my nuisance algae growth is no worse/better than artificially lit tanks ie; almost no nuisance algae.

fwiw,

Agu

[reefsociety101]

Lead,

That sounds like an awesome outdoor tank. Try to get some pictures. *Smile. I was also thinking of trying a project like that. I totally agree with you that water quality must be the utmost of quality if we plan to use sunlight as our main light source. The only way I was thinking to actually make a system like that work is to just increase the overall water volume size. If the pond is 3000 gallons we must connect it to a remote water resovior that is atlease twice the size. That way the organism to water volume level is reduced and water quality will be must easier to maintain. I am currently drawing out a system like that for a friend who might try an 2000 gallon indoor pond system connected to a resovior I described. I will keep you posted.

[ejocam]

I can see why this thread has been alive for the time it has. I'm sure in time, as more of us take the risk/plunge into this concept will our own apetites would be filled. But more important would be the information and experience of one, who would document and share with all interested and skepitical hobbyists. Definatley sounds interesting for me. I live in Victorville(High Desert) Electicity can be a big problem, if you plan on keeping or proping sps and light demanding corals. Very glad to catch this Thread. Will be looking into this. Keep Pioneering this valuable and worthy idea.

Eric C.

[ejocam]

I can see why this thread has been alive for the time it has. I'm sure in time, as more of us take the risk/plunge into this concept will our own apetites would be filled. But more important would be the information and experience of one, who would document and share with all interested and skepitical hobbyists. Definatley sounds interesting for me. I live in Victorville(High Desert) where Electicity can be a big problem as well as heat. Very glad to catch this Thread. Will be looking into this. Keep Pioneering this valuable and worthy idea.

Eric C.

[lead]

Sat,

The books that I have at home are Marine Algae control secrets by Bob Goemans, Ph.D. and the new Aquarium Corals by Eric H. Borneman. I have read other books that contain the same information. I would have to go to the local library to get the other titles of books. Sunlight contains the full spectrum of color from cool colors to 20000k and higher. It boils down to the two elements that I talked about earlier (nutrients) phosates and light. Algae has a certain wavelenght or color that it favors just like our corals. Our corals favor light in the 6500k and higher range. This is how we get the different types of corals at different depths in the ocean. Each species of corals require different light and nutrient conditions to grow. If this was not so, I would be growing some of the strawberry cauliflower corals. The ocean water acts as a huge light filter. Ocean water is also low in phosate (read The environmental gradient by Steve Tyree) on the reef. It is only when the two requirements of light and nutrients is met when there is problems with algae growth on the reef. If we place a acropora in a place that meets the nutrient requirements, but does not met the lighting requirement the coral does not do very well or it dies. It`s the same with algae. If your tank has the right conditions (nutrients and light), you get an algae bloom. So if you know the light requirements of algae and you lower the nutrient levels in your tank, you can control the growth of algae. Easier said than done.

Lead

[reefsociety101]

In my 110 gallon tank on the left side, I tend to always get the afternoon sun for about 2 hours, and I have to say that section is the most beautiful section of the tank to look at. The light there is so crisp that the water looks crystal clear and the coraline just looks so natural. The color is so natural, refracting onto the sand looks so much better then the right side which is artificial lit all day. If suntubes can replicate this throughout the entire tank, I have to say guys we are moving to a whole new level of reef keeping. No photograph I have taken can replicate how that afternoon sun light looks.

Just a rant.

_Mike

[AuroraDave]

There is a photo of Michael Fontana's solar-lit tank in Michael Paletta's new book, Ultimate Marine Aquariums on pg 147.

It is a 180 gallon tank with one 250W 6500K Iwasaki MH on the left side; and what he calls a "light chimney" on the right. The entire tank also has 4 supplimental VHO's (2 daylight-2 actinic). The lighting is 12 inches above the water.

The tank was set-up in 1993 and includes 10 stonys and 30 soft corals. The article describes the successes Michael had by comparing the left and right sides. Michael describes the "impressive" growth rates of two specific corals in the article...
Euphyllia ancora (hammer coral) grew from palm-sized to show colony 18" long in one year and
Hydnophora rigida (green horn coral) grew from 50cent piece sized frag into the size of two dinner plates. No time period stated.
Those were the only examples in the article
FYI: I really like this book. It is interesting to see the many different methods these aquarists used to design their systems.

[reefsociety101]

Dave,


Thanx for the heads up. I'll definately check that out.

[Scuba_Dave]

Excellent thread, moving soon & I am hoping to build an addition w/sun tubes, skylights & big windows. Living in NE I expect to have to use additional lighting. I've had a 30g tank in athe front window for about 3 months now. The sun looks great rippling on the bottom.
And since I'm not into Acro's - I think this will work for me. Not having to run full halides in the summer would be great.

[jarvis]

Very intresting thread. Its a diffrent concept. Best of luck to you. I wonder how these things would work in winter when it snows. If you decide to brush off the snow. Snow is probobly one of the greatest reflectors. If you lived in an area that was able to sustain a constant snow covering for the winter months I wonder how it would work.

[lead]

Jarvis,
That is one of the problems that I have benn struggling with also. One of my ideas around the problem is to have the tank and solar tubes on the southside of the house with no trees to block the sun. The reason for the tubes on the southside of the home is to get the maxium amount of sunlight possible. Us that are in the northern parts of the country just simply can not get around that fact that we will need to use the solar tubes as a secondary light source. The sun does not give enough light during the winter months to use as a primary light source, but during the spring, summer, and fall, we can use the sun as the primary lighting source. This will cut our power bill by 40 to 60 percent. This is what I am look at. The fact of cutting my power bill in half means more coral and a larger tank for less operational cost.
Lead

[RhumbRunner]

Comming in pretty late here, but pretty interested too. Can anyone point to some scientific analsys of the light intensity/spectrum of one of these tubes vs. a given MH light? How does it vary over the course of a day vs. the MH instant/on instant/off static output? What lattitude were the measurments taken at and can projections be made for other lattitudes? Finally, how does it vary over the course of a year? Would the manufacturers be able to supply same?

Thanks and later...

[Agu]

Originally posted by RhumbRunner
Comming in pretty late here, but pretty interested too. Can anyone point to some scientific analsys of the light intensity/spectrum of one of these tubes vs. a given MH light? How does it vary over the course of a day vs. the MH instant/on instant/off static output? What lattitude were the measurments taken at and can projections be made for other lattitudes? Finally, how does it vary over the course of a year? Would the manufacturers be able to supply same?

Thanks and later...

Here you go,

http://www.solatube.com/solamaster.htm

hth,

Agu

[RhumbRunner]

Once again, thanks Agu.

Later,

[Gusto]

Any new developments on this project???