Bubble Master Skimmers more info wanted??? - Page 8

glassbox-design · 10/15/2006, 04:49 PM

hceiv...sorry we did not reply to the pm...so far, no skimmer=no results. infact we havent even placed an order yet. if and when we receive it we will be glad to share...until then, just trying to find out more info.

e+f

Roland Jacques · 10/15/2006, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vollekanne
Hi,

I`m sure the diameter of the neck gave the Bubblemaster his name. So should the BM150 have a diameter of 150mm (millimeter) the BM200 a diameter of 200mm and so on.
I hope, this will help you, while you are waiting for the BM

This is not the case because the base of the bm 250 is only 230mm so the neck is nowhere near that. But I do appreciate the effort. it looks about 6.5" but I would like to no for sure.

Beenalongtime79 · 10/16/2006, 09:53 AM

Roland,

You make a lot of good points. I think the only real comment I have is that it is true that things have changed since Escobal's days, and certainly most of our skimmers will never reach his idea of the "perfect" skimmer, because we'd have to have much taller skimmers or much smaller bubbles to acheive his idea of proper contact/dwell time.

Anybody know the equation for the rise rate of a bubble based off of its volume off the top of their heads...

? Also, has anyone taken measurements to calculate the average bubble size that their protein skimmers produce at a certain salinity or organic compound load?

Peace,
John

Creetin · 10/17/2006, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RGibson
Creetin one of things that i work on was to show that a large pump like the iwaki 70 pump was not need to make a beckett work well .On my own skimmer which is 36 in tall has a 8 in dia riser and a 12 in dia collection cup is that it could be 5 in lower with out hurting the out put of the skimmer And that just one beckett can run a large skimmer with room to spare.

I see a 55 as too much electric too, When 2 little 30 watt pumps put out 90 scfh of air, and i was getting less from an iwaki 70 at 390w on my beckett, i think thats an improvement. I have no problem with becketts, I just wish the pressure rated pumps burned less wattage and were quiet.
I looked into a reeflo tarpon, and a wahoo, and yes that would have lowered the power rate, and i almost bought one, But then i seen these babys, and decided on trying one.
Granted i got very good results with my beckett, But i payed the price in always having that fan noise, and the heat. I see that the 55 is a lower wattage pump, But not drastic enough for me to keep the beckett. My pcx 40 added 2 degrees on my eductors.
Now i am with tunze, and lost that 2 degrees, and lost extra wattage. Its not the skimmer i dont like its the pumps. Most of all the NOISE lol, Now all i hear is water from the overflow, and i forgot how peacefull that was.
Now i can keep my tank at 78 for a high with my halides running without running a chiller. That my friend was enough to think i made the right choice.

MY decisions had to do more with Elec, Heat, Noise.
By looking atthe performance of these skimmers i think i will be happy.
This is not a bashing against becketts in the least.
I have no doubt in their ability to remove some serious waste, But it comes with a price tag. JMO TIFWIW.

One more thing, Now that my temp is lower my evap is less and my dehumidifier is running alot less, reducing more electricity. I used to dump it daily, Now i dump it every 4 days. (2-3gallons)

Kinetic · 10/17/2006, 05:11 PM

someone recommended a BM 200 for my upcoming tank. Where do they sell these? What are their specs?

Creetin · 10/17/2006, 05:36 PM

Skim thru the thead, all the info is in here.

lvpd186 · 10/17/2006, 07:25 PM

I've been keeping up with thread and the BM sounds like a great skimmer. Has anyone actually got one yet that they can give a review?

Roland Jacques · 10/17/2006, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lvpd186
I've been keeping up with thread and the BM sounds like a great skimmer. Has anyone actually got one yet that they can give a review?

Now why would we want to do that. Then we would have the facts and what kind of fun is that.

I hear the first shipment should be in the next few days or so, but those have been sold out for a while now. It sounds likes that even the shipment after that may be sold out soon.

FWIW, some people have said this skimmer looks like a BK clone or a knok off. I personaly dont think so, This is what i see as very different than BK and other skimmers.

The design benefits of the body only.
1. Better vertical space utilization the bubble go from the very bottom all the way though it.

2. It widely held opinion that bubble diffusers improve skimmer performance over non diffuser skimmers. less turbulence= better foam...

3. The up and over flow pattern IMO this assure more through air water contact time and hits. (the sleeve above the diffuser)

4. The super high airwater ratio 60-70% in what I would call a compression area (the sleeve above the diffuser)

Three of those sets it apart from BK

The pump/ ventuiri/impeller

5. the smaller bubbles which has not been confirmed IMO but it looks to be apparently so (I do plain on testing that for myself) this is a big factor in skimmer performance.

6. low watts 54-60

7. GOBS of air. 80- 90 SCFH = 40+ lpm = 2200-2550 lph

Theres my non review, review. we need some more reviews anyone else

So i dont see this as a knok off skimmer. and ive heard it been around for a couple of years in Europe too.

lvpd186 · 10/17/2006, 08:26 PM

True, it would take some of the fun out of it. Since I have a 120 in the making I may need to get on that waiting list.

Roland Jacques · 10/17/2006, 08:47 PM

Latest pump info from The ATI Man

"Are they reliable and better than Eheim pumps?"

"Hallo,

The reasons why we changed the pump were different.
First, we find out that not all Eheim Rotors (magnets) were well balanced (before we start to modify the Rotor) and because of this some Pumps were silent and some pumps were not so silent.
This was unacceptable for us (we have hundreds of not well balanced Rotors in our Stock) and not the best solution for our customers.
Another point is the geometrie of the Eheim Pump. This Pump is a good Pump to move Water. And this is exactly what the pump was made for. But to have a good Skimerpump, we have to modify this Pump (prechamber, wateroutlet etc).

The new pumps have a pefect geometrie (large prechamber etc.) and we do not have to modify the pump. Perhaps this is the reason, why Tunze will use this Pump(but with needle wheels), too.

The most interesting point with this new pumps is the fact, that it is possible to use this pump without ceramicshaft. The complete Rotor has no contact to the pump or case (only the waterfilm) and because of this the pump is absolutely wear resistant and very silent. I think, this is the first Skimmerpump that can work in this way.

Anyway, we have tested this pump 6 Month now and we are very happy with the results. Silent, less or no wear, low Energie consumption and a high performance. "

Thanks,
Oliver

Creetin · 10/18/2006, 07:11 AM

Thanks for your insight roland.
Has anybody talked to reefgeek yet on a date of arrival? I am getting too anxious. Last time i heard from oliver is that they should have them by this weekend.
LOL Its like waiting for christmas morn to come when youre a kid. Guess i should changeout my sump while i wait because i dont think it will fit in my current one.

merlock116 · 10/18/2006, 05:06 PM

BM BM BM! I'm waiting on one from reefgeek.

Creetin · 10/19/2006, 01:22 PM

Well if you guys were late getting one preordered, you are 2-4 weeks away.
The first wave will be in next week per Greg. Woot woot!

UCanDoIt · 10/19/2006, 01:56 PM

I can't wait to see this is action too. I got my local guy to test it. His first evaluation will be the ATi BM200 side by side with the similar capacity Deltec APF600. Will be interesting. I love my Deltec, but this looks really promising.

seminolecpa · 10/19/2006, 03:30 PM

I currently have a Euroreef RS-6-2 crammed in my sump, works decently on my 58 SPS tank but man does it generate some heat. If I was to order one of these should I go with the 150 or 200?

Also I am reading that the pumps on these things are pretty low wattage can someone tell me the wattage difference between the ER RS 6-2 and the 150 and 200?

appreciate the help

ezcompany · 10/19/2006, 05:21 PM

newb question:

are bubble masters and bubble kings made by the same company?

all i know is that they the kings use red dragon pumps, and i think the masters use eheim. i'm guessing they're totally different

UCanDoIt · 10/19/2006, 05:23 PM

No, good question. BK by Royal Exclusiv and BM by ATi. BM will be using the Sicci pumps (same pumps as Tunze uses).

ezcompany · 10/19/2006, 05:44 PM

ah thanks UcandoIt...which one is higher regarded? higher priced?

UCanDoIt · 10/19/2006, 05:47 PM

You will get all kind of opinions when you ask that question. I will probably get clobbered for this. IMO, BK is the undisputed best NW skimmer in the world. BK starts at around $2,000 for their skimmers, kind of pricey, huh? But pricey doesn't necessarily mean better. Looks like BM is trying to squeeze in there alongside H&S and Deltec, maybe trying to displaced BK.

Roland Jacques · 10/19/2006, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by UCanDoIt
You will get all kind of opinions when you ask that question. IMO, BK is the undisputed best NW skimmer in the world. BK start at around $2,000 for their skimmers. BM is trying to squeeze in there alongside H&S and Deltec.

Are you basing your opinion on price or are you just pointing the BK price out. BK's are great and built like tanks but undisputed? well I'm your little Huckleberry, (man, I love that line) cause ill dispute with you. I will dispute the performance but not the quality.

Put the BK 250 along side of the BM 250 and compare performance of what you know about both. Then ask yourself what's undisputed. Yeah you better log off. JK

The BM really does not have hardly any similarity to H&S or Deltec other than they all skim

Jim_S · 10/19/2006, 08:04 PM

I asked this question in another thread, but I thought this may be a better place.

Are they going to use the mesh wheel? If so, do you have to clean the impeller often?

I've read on other forums that the makers of BM skimmers are not known for their customer service. Does anyone have any insight to how this will be addresed in the US and Canada? I know reefgeek is pretty awsome, but will parts and warranty service be readily available over here?

Thanks in advance.

Jim

Beenalongtime79 · 10/19/2006, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by UCanDoIt
You will get all kind of opinions when you ask that question. I will probably get clobbered for this. IMO, BK is the undisputed best NW skimmer in the world. BK starts at around $2,000 for their skimmers, kind of pricey, huh? But pricey doesn't necessarily mean better. Looks like BM is trying to squeeze in there alongside H&S and Deltec, maybe trying to displaced BK.

I agree with Roland on this... I've seen all the numbers and the BM takes the cake in terms of efficiency:energy use.

Even the much touted BK cannot mess with their numbers.... And I'm not talking about their DC pumps (that's another story). I'm strictly speaking about their AC current models.

Mike (smtkj) has also shown its effectiveness on a large pump like the dart.

So, the mesh seems to work very well on both large and small pumps.

Peace,
John

Roland Jacques · 10/19/2006, 08:29 PM

jimdogg187,
yes on the mesh wheel and 1- 3 month for cleaning. in my experience with customer service is that its usually about where you by it from more than anything. I imagine it will be like most new things with a high demand. probably weak service at first (growing as fast as they are) then improving over time. but I really don't know about that.

Jim_S · 10/19/2006, 08:33 PM

Sweet!

Thanks Roland. I can't wait to see one of these babies! I'd like to get one. Do they make external models?

Thanks.

Jim

rishma · 10/19/2006, 11:46 PM

No, no external models. Would someone ask Oliver why not a recirc/external model?

Several pages ago people were discussing why a recirc may not be better for the BM skimmer like it seems to be for H&S, Deltec, and BK. I am not sure I buy into this idea, but I am not an expert or even pretend to be.

It seems that taking advantage of the water column head pressure on the pump suction would increase efficiency (air+water/watts) all other things being equal.

10/15/2006, 04:49 PM	#176
glassbox-design Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: SF Posts: 3,041	hceiv...sorry we did not reply to the pm...so far, no skimmer=no results. infact we havent even placed an order yet. if and when we receive it we will be glad to share...until then, just trying to find out more info. e+f __________________ GLASSBOXDESIGN the modern reef blog LEDs are a 50,000 hr investment. Choose wisely. Current Tank Info: ...a new glassbox is coming

10/17/2006, 05:36 PM	#181
Creetin Limestone Cowboy. Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: In a little place i like to call a little place. Posts: 4,552	Skim thru the thead, all the info is in here. __________________ If only common sense was common. Current Tank Info: 300 gal marineland deep

10/17/2006, 07:25 PM	#182
lvpd186 Reefing in NE Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Papillion, NE Posts: 1,485	I've been keeping up with thread and the BM sounds like a great skimmer. Has anyone actually got one yet that they can give a review? __________________ "A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice." Bill Cosby

10/17/2006, 08:26 PM	#184
lvpd186 Reefing in NE Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Papillion, NE Posts: 1,485	True, it would take some of the fun out of it. Since I have a 120 in the making I may need to get on that waiting list. __________________ "A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice." Bill Cosby

10/17/2006, 08:47 PM	#185
Roland Jacques Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 2,848	Latest pump info from The ATI Man "Are they reliable and better than Eheim pumps?" "Hallo, The reasons why we changed the pump were different. First, we find out that not all Eheim Rotors (magnets) were well balanced (before we start to modify the Rotor) and because of this some Pumps were silent and some pumps were not so silent. This was unacceptable for us (we have hundreds of not well balanced Rotors in our Stock) and not the best solution for our customers. Another point is the geometrie of the Eheim Pump. This Pump is a good Pump to move Water. And this is exactly what the pump was made for. But to have a good Skimerpump, we have to modify this Pump (prechamber, wateroutlet etc). The new pumps have a pefect geometrie (large prechamber etc.) and we do not have to modify the pump. Perhaps this is the reason, why Tunze will use this Pump(but with needle wheels), too. The most interesting point with this new pumps is the fact, that it is possible to use this pump without ceramicshaft. The complete Rotor has no contact to the pump or case (only the waterfilm) and because of this the pump is absolutely wear resistant and very silent. I think, this is the first Skimmerpump that can work in this way. Anyway, we have tested this pump 6 Month now and we are very happy with the results. Silent, less or no wear, low Energie consumption and a high performance. " Thanks, Oliver __________________ Roland

10/16/2006, 09:53 AM	#178
Beenalongtime79 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 4,437	Roland, You make a lot of good points. I think the only real comment I have is that it is true that things have changed since Escobal's days, and certainly most of our skimmers will never reach his idea of the "perfect" skimmer, because we'd have to have much taller skimmers or much smaller bubbles to acheive his idea of proper contact/dwell time. Anybody know the equation for the rise rate of a bubble based off of its volume off the top of their heads... ? Also, has anyone taken measurements to calculate the average bubble size that their protein skimmers produce at a certain salinity or organic compound load? Peace, John

10/17/2006, 05:11 PM	#180
Kinetic Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 7,230	someone recommended a BM 200 for my upcoming tank. Where do they sell these? What are their specs?

10/18/2006, 07:11 AM	#186
Creetin Limestone Cowboy. Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: In a little place i like to call a little place. Posts: 4,552	Thanks for your insight roland. Has anybody talked to reefgeek yet on a date of arrival? I am getting too anxious. Last time i heard from oliver is that they should have them by this weekend. LOL Its like waiting for christmas morn to come when youre a kid. Guess i should changeout my sump while i wait because i dont think it will fit in my current one. __________________ If only common sense was common. Current Tank Info: 300 gal marineland deep

10/18/2006, 05:06 PM	#187
merlock116 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 969	BM BM BM! I'm waiting on one from reefgeek.

10/19/2006, 01:22 PM	#188
Creetin Limestone Cowboy. Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: In a little place i like to call a little place. Posts: 4,552	Well if you guys were late getting one preordered, you are 2-4 weeks away. The first wave will be in next week per Greg. Woot woot! __________________ If only common sense was common. Current Tank Info: 300 gal marineland deep

10/19/2006, 01:56 PM	#189
UCanDoIt Moved On Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Bay Area CA Posts: 1,684	I can't wait to see this is action too. I got my local guy to test it. His first evaluation will be the ATi BM200 side by side with the similar capacity Deltec APF600. Will be interesting. I love my Deltec, but this looks really promising.

10/19/2006, 03:30 PM	#190
seminolecpa Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Burlingame, CA Posts: 1,110	I currently have a Euroreef RS-6-2 crammed in my sump, works decently on my 58 SPS tank but man does it generate some heat. If I was to order one of these should I go with the 150 or 200? Also I am reading that the pumps on these things are pretty low wattage can someone tell me the wattage difference between the ER RS 6-2 and the 150 and 200? appreciate the help

10/19/2006, 05:21 PM	#191
ezcompany Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 4,640	newb question: are bubble masters and bubble kings made by the same company? all i know is that they the kings use red dragon pumps, and i think the masters use eheim. i'm guessing they're totally different __________________ Jin Have a nice day! Current Tank Info: IM40

10/19/2006, 05:23 PM	#192
UCanDoIt Moved On Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Bay Area CA Posts: 1,684	No, good question. BK by Royal Exclusiv and BM by ATi. BM will be using the Sicci pumps (same pumps as Tunze uses).

10/19/2006, 05:44 PM	#193
ezcompany Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 4,640	ah thanks UcandoIt...which one is higher regarded? higher priced? __________________ Jin Have a nice day! Current Tank Info: IM40

10/19/2006, 05:47 PM	#194
UCanDoIt Moved On Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Bay Area CA Posts: 1,684	You will get all kind of opinions when you ask that question. I will probably get clobbered for this. IMO, BK is the undisputed best NW skimmer in the world. BK starts at around $2,000 for their skimmers, kind of pricey, huh? But pricey doesn't necessarily mean better. Looks like BM is trying to squeeze in there alongside H&S and Deltec, maybe trying to displaced BK. Last edited by UCanDoIt; 10/19/2006 at 06:26 PM.

10/19/2006, 08:04 PM	#196
Jim_S Timo Boll Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 5,333	I asked this question in another thread, but I thought this may be a better place. Are they going to use the mesh wheel? If so, do you have to clean the impeller often? I've read on other forums that the makers of BM skimmers are not known for their customer service. Does anyone have any insight to how this will be addresed in the US and Canada? I know reefgeek is pretty awsome, but will parts and warranty service be readily available over here? Thanks in advance. Jim __________________ We will survive in this world of competition, shooting guns and our ammunition... Bradley Nowell Current Tank Info: We're recreating the ocean in our livings rooms. With that said, I've had some ups and downs.

10/19/2006, 08:29 PM	#198
Roland Jacques Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 2,848	jimdogg187, yes on the mesh wheel and 1- 3 month for cleaning. in my experience with customer service is that its usually about where you by it from more than anything. I imagine it will be like most new things with a high demand. probably weak service at first (growing as fast as they are) then improving over time. but I really don't know about that. __________________ Roland

10/19/2006, 08:33 PM	#199
Jim_S Timo Boll Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 5,333	Sweet! Thanks Roland. I can't wait to see one of these babies! I'd like to get one. Do they make external models? Thanks. Jim __________________ We will survive in this world of competition, shooting guns and our ammunition... Bradley Nowell Current Tank Info: We're recreating the ocean in our livings rooms. With that said, I've had some ups and downs.

10/19/2006, 11:46 PM	#200
rishma Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Mississippi Posts: 1,206	No, no external models. Would someone ask Oliver why not a recirc/external model? Several pages ago people were discussing why a recirc may not be better for the BM skimmer like it seems to be for H&S, Deltec, and BK. I am not sure I buy into this idea, but I am not an expert or even pretend to be. It seems that taking advantage of the water column head pressure on the pump suction would increase efficiency (air+water/watts) all other things being equal.