Official: Masterflex Calcium Reactor Setup Thread

[Dapg8gt]

This is what I have on all the fittings of my reactor.. I also use one to a ball valve to bleed excess c02 if needed.. I think its pretty standard, I did tap one in for the bleed off though..

[scuzy]

Ah my vertex is all jg quick connect.


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[IUfan]

It's not rigid Co2 tubing it's silicone, it's just hard to get it over the nipple/barb.

I was under the impression you had to use Co2 resistant tubing and that would eliminate using John guest fittings?


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[BigMike75]

We have contact!!!!! Display is just a little cloudy but output is now going through a filter sock.

[gus6464]

Originally Posted by IUfan

It's not rigid Co2 tubing it's silicone, it's just hard to get it over the nipple/barb.

I was under the impression you had to use Co2 resistant tubing and that would eliminate using John guest fittings?


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There have been tests done on co2 resistant vs regular tubing and the loss of co2 through the so called non resistant is very minimal that it really doesn't matter. Unless you have a super long run of 30+ feet it won't matter.

[BigMike75]

For the people running carbondoser regulator what psi are you running your bubble size at?

[scuzy]

Mines at 9-10


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[IUfan]

Originally Posted by scuzy

Mines at 9-10


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That seems quite high.

Mines 3.5psi with bubble count around 3


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[hkgar]

Is the Quarium Plant regulator single or dual stage? It looks to be single stage.

[gus6464]

Originally Posted by hkgar

Is the Quarium Plant regulator single or dual stage? It looks to be single stage.

Single. It's a 20 dollar regulator wrapped in 200 bucks of electronics.

[hkgar]

Why doesn't "dump" CO2 at the end of the tank?

[gus6464]

All single stage regs can do an eotd. It's not a matter of if but when.

[hkgar]

I asked Aquarium Plants the question and this is the response:

Single: there is no need for a dual stage with this design. The fact that is NOT have a needle valve eliminates the potential for “dumping”…

[gus6464]

Originally Posted by hkgar

I asked Aquarium Plants the question and this is the response:

Single: there is no need for a dual stage with this design. The fact that is NOT have a needle valve eliminates the potential for “dumping”…

Company that sells the unit says a better regulator is not needed, shocking. A needle valve has absolutely nothing to do with an end of tank dump. End of tank dump happens when the co2 tank pressure drops to a certain point that the regulator can no longer control it so the remaining co2 in the tank is released by the regulator. A dual stage regulator does not allow this to happen.

My co2 background comes from the planted tank world and you will have a really hard time finding someone in the planted tank world with the aquarium plants regulator. Considerably better units are available for cheaper if you look through ebay. I have 3 regulators. A victor vts-253b on my reef tank, an airgas y12d on a planted tank and a matheson 3102C as a backup. I paid less than $50 each for the airgas and matheson.

[StevieK]

Originally Posted by gus6464

Company that sells the unit says a better regulator is not needed, shocking. A needle valve has absolutely nothing to do with an end of tank dump. End of tank dump happens when the co2 tank pressure drops to a certain point that the regulator can no longer control it so the remaining co2 in the tank is released by the regulator. A dual stage regulator does not allow this to happen.

My co2 background comes from the planted tank world and you will have a really hard time finding someone in the planted tank world with the aquarium plants regulator. Considerably better units are available for cheaper if you look through ebay. I have 3 regulators. A victor vts-253b on my reef tank, an airgas y12d on a planted tank and a matheson 3102C as a backup. I paid less than $50 each for the airgas and matheson.

Bingo !!!!!!!!

... in case you guys are interested in a real Regulator check out the deal Co2 Dual Stage Regulator - Concoa SS up in the sales section !!

[BigMike75]

If you added the carbondoser box to a dual stage regulator could you still adjust the bubble size? Long way from understanding regulators. lol

[tkeracer619]

Originally Posted by BigMike75

If you added the carbondoser box to a dual stage regulator could you still adjust the bubble size? Long way from understanding regulators. lol

Yes, it works great! Makes tuning this setup ridiculously easy.

[Krazie4Acans]

Aren't most of you running some kind of aquarium controller with your setups? I don't run the PA carbondoser regulator or a fancy double stage reg. The reason is that my apex monitors the CA reactor pH and turns off the solenoid if the pH drops too low. Now during normal operation my bubble count and size are tuned so that the solenoid rarely closes. However at the end of a tank when the "dump" occurs my apex intervenes and prevents the "dump" from even being noticed by the system at all.

[soulpatch]

the dump has already happened by the time your probe picks it up. Probes are great for drifting values so they can mitigate it but the dump is just that. A dump of CO2 into the system is over by the time the PH has changed and the probe grabs it.

[Krazie4Acans]

Not if your bubble size and rate is already set by the needle valve. It may speed up some with the possible increase of pressure but I've never had mine dump so quickly that there was a large drop in pH at the end of a tank. In fact the only way I know my tank is empty is the slow gradual increase of pH once it's out of gas (and yes it always happens when it's a few hours before I can get there to swap it out lol)

[gus6464]

Originally Posted by Krazie4Acans

Not if your bubble size and rate is already set by the needle valve. It may speed up some with the possible increase of pressure but I've never had mine dump so quickly that there was a large drop in pH at the end of a tank. In fact the only way I know my tank is empty is the slow gradual increase of pH once it's out of gas (and yes it always happens when it's a few hours before I can get there to swap it out lol)

At 1bps it's not a big dump. When you have the needle valve set to 5+bps that tiny blip becomes huge.

[Krazie4Acans]

Are you talking about a blip in my attached picture? I've never seen a setup at 1bps but I still don't see how it would matter if the needle valve is restricting the bubble count already. When the pressure increases due to the lack of regulation the bubble size would get larger and maybe slightly faster but it's still restricted by the needle valve.

Are you saying that at 5+bps your needle valve is all the way open and so you just get a big burp into your reactor? I'm just asking because I don't see this problem and I think there is more to it than just a single stage regulator.

[gus6464]

Originally Posted by Krazie4Acans

Are you talking about a blip in my attached picture? I've never seen a setup at 1bps but I still don't see how it would matter if the needle valve is restricting the bubble count already. When the pressure increases due to the lack of regulation the bubble size would get larger and maybe slightly faster but it's still restricted by the needle valve.

Are you saying that at 5+bps your needle valve is all the way open and so you just get a big burp into your reactor? I'm just asking because I don't see this problem and I think there is more to it than just a single stage regulator.

Regulators have 2 pressures they monitor/regulate. Co2 tank pressure and working pressure which gets passed on to the needle valve. Standard co2 tank operates at ~800psi. That incoming pressure then gets regulated to a much lower pressure of between 1-100psi for most units. A needle valve controls the outgoing co2 by taking into account the working pressure. This is why when you have the same exact needle valve the setting on it will be different when you output 10 psi to vs 25 psi for the same bubble rate.

This means that bubble rate will be different at 10 psi vs 25 psi when the needle is on the same exact spot. So what happens during an eotd? That incoming pressure from the co2 tank can no longer be regulated to 1-100psi so working pressure goes up as tank pressure goes down. That means that the bubble rate goes way up even though you didn't touch the needle valve. This happens quickly and a ph probe cannot detect in time.

Think of a dual stage regulator as basically two regulators in one unit, a high pressure and a low pressure. The first stage and second stage keeps the pressure at equilibrium before it goes out as working pressure. So as tank pressure goes down working pressure stays the same.

This is why running low working pressure is actually more dangerous. When you run 5 psi working pressure the needle valve will actually be more open than when you run it at 25psi when you want it to output say 1 bubble per second. That means that during an eotd the co2 will dump out much quicker at the 5psi working pressure.

[Krazie4Acans]

And I agree with much of what you said. However, referring back to my graph that I posted. Even if the probe couldn't detect the eotd fast enough to react as you state, it would still pickup the pH drop in the reactor after that and before the rise in pH occurs. That however is not what I see so what makes my Milwaukee single stage not show this behavior?

[gus6464]

Originally Posted by Krazie4Acans

And I agree with much of what you said. However, referring back to my graph that I posted. Even if the probe couldn't detect the eotd fast enough to react as you state, it would still pickup the pH drop in the reactor after that and before the rise in pH occurs. That however is not what I see so what makes my Milwaukee single stage not show this behavior?

An eotd is not guaranteed to happen every time the tank gets low. I ran a single stage regulator for a year on a planted tank without an eotd. All it took was one time to gas and wipe out all my fish. Never gain after that. If someone runs their pH at 6.6 a single eotd is enough to make the pH go so low that is turns the stuff to mush and one dumps super sky high alk in the tank.