GFO (PhosBan) - Just How Good Is It?

[melev]

I have one Maxijet that pumps up into a Tee, and a ballvalve on each side leading to each reactor. That way I can control the flow to each one, and only use one pump.

Carbon tends to be good for a few days, while PO4 remover can be good for weeks or longer, based on current PO4 levels.

[K' Family Reef]

thanks JetCat and Melev for the information.

regards

[mgny]

I have supplied my reactor with a gravity siphon for years now. I also supply my skimmer the same way. I always wonder why others would use a pump when a gravity siphon will do the job more efficiently. Of course you need to make sure the siphon breaks when the power goes out. Always a mystery to me why most reefers dont use gravity. To keep the hobby as simple as possible is the key to long term success. The thread was really informative and i will now change the media more often. Thanks Jet Cat

[JetCat USA]

people use pumps because it's about 10x more convenient of a 'Plug & Play' setup then tapping into a drain line or a HOB siphon.

[mgny]

If you spend a few minutes extra when setting up the reactor with a gravity siphon you will never have to deal with pump maintenance, heat transfer, unnecessary electric consumption, pump cost ............ . Just leave the reactor on the bottom of your sump, making sure to have the siphon break when the power goes out. I agree with the plug and play thought but thinking long term it is a no brainer to use gravity. My 180 has been running since 1996 so i speak from experience. Just want to give the newbies a better choice.

[melev]

Gravity driven is fine if you don't mind air bubbles (if there are any in the drain line) in the reactor, or possibly detritus accumulation within the media. In my case, the water is pretty pure since I pump it from the return section.

[wzero]

I¡¯m interesting in low range effectiveness of GFO, since I believe for which GFO media pulling down PO4 from 0.4 to 0.2 doesn't mean the same fresh media can pull down PO4 from 0.2 to near 0.0, even from 0.04 to 0.02 .....

[JetCat USA]

the reactor isn't processing all the water in the system, it processes a percentage of that water so the rate of removal is an equal percentage. it will take a tank down to undetectable levels. on my 75 reef i change the media when i detect levels >0.03 and it'll drop back to undetectable in a very short time.

like Marc, i feed my reactor from a pump in the return section, i have the output of the reactor back at the skimmer section so the water is processed again before returning to the tank, it allows the skimmer to remove any dust that didn't get rinsed out when refilling the media and any that might have formed from turbulence in the reactor.

[melev]

That is exactly how mine is set up.

[JetCat USA]

Originally posted by JetCat USA
well a fellow reefer on the board here posted a thread that got my interest peaked with the removal of PO4 ..........

That is a quote from the first post in this topic, the thread has had great interest on the board and even went so far as to be nominated for ThOTM and took the honors but now i feel a little bad about it all

the guy who peaked that curiosity that started all this has taken my questions on his thread as a very strong personal attack of some sort now i find that i am very carefully reading over my posts prior to posting and in allot of cases just delete it without replying for fear of being taken as abrasive by others.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...readid=1180954

[cdentii1]

Originally posted by mgny
If you spend a few minutes extra when setting up the reactor with a gravity siphon you will never have to deal with pump maintenance, heat transfer, unnecessary electric consumption, pump cost ............ . Just leave the reactor on the bottom of your sump, making sure to have the siphon break when the power goes out. I agree with the plug and play thought but thinking long term it is a no brainer to use gravity. My 180 has been running since 1996 so i speak from experience. Just want to give the newbies a better choice.

You have caught my interest in the gravity feed aspect do you have any pics of your set up?

[sirjohn]

Jetcat, a question for you. Sorry if you've already mentioned it, as the thread has gotten huge, so I might have missed it.

I think you mentioned that the algae (hair and otherwise) in your tank started to die off pretty quickly as the PO4 levels dropped. Given the amount of phosban you used, and the accelerated die-off of the algae, did you notice any significant drop in PH as the algae started to decompose into the water and die?

[JetCat USA]

No, i didn't have any pH issues at all, but keep in mind there wasn't a significantly intense light source on the tank either, on a high light tank it may make a difference.

[mgny]

Hey cdent, dont have pics of the set -up but it is so simple. I used the rigid hang on u pipe from an old diatom filter cut to the right height to break siphon. Connected black flex tube so algea wont grow in clear pipe. It runs a few feet across the back of the tank into a closet where my sump sits. The reactor sits almost at the bottom of my sump. the flex pipe connects to the ball valve to control flow. I run two of these, the other for my skimmer. Since i dont run a chiller, eliminating two pumps was was huge. There is no problem with any clogging from detritus or anything else in the years i have been doing this. I took it one step further and moved both siphons to the back of my overflow box so they are not visible in my tank. Just make sure they break siphon first before the main tube. Here is a pic of my tank. I have been changing the phosban more often thanks to Jetcat and it has really cleaned up the hair algea. Mike

[JetCat USA]

sorry but now I've got the mental picture of someone sitting in their fish room after a power outage with lips wrapped around the business end of a skimmer and PO4 reactor sucking for prime

[mgny]

I wish i had a fish room! Definately not a pretty site seeing me squeeze into the closet to restart it. Luckily the power outages are pretty rare around here. Thanks again Jet Cat for the great info. My tank has hit another level! Mike

[carlso63]

I just wanted to put up a few bullet points re: use of a pO4 remover that seem to be confusing some of us:

- Proper use of a pO4 remover l will lower your pO4 levels down to basically "0" / "undectectable" on most test kits; unless you have A) such an extremely high bioload or (much more likely) B) you are way overfeeding, or C) your input tap is loaded with phosphate and you do not use an RO / DI unit. The size of the 'reactor' or amount of media needed is only a factor towards how quickly the lowering will take place - unless you have a huge tank there is no need for multiple reactors

- Use of a pO4 remover will not harm your inverts or cleanup crew in any way; unless you 'overdo' the amount of GFO and thus shock your tank by removing too much pO4 too quickly

- While pO4 remover is very helpful in controlling "nuisance" algae, it will not completely remove all algae from your tank. You will still have to scrape glass once in a while...

- While using a "proper" pO4 'reactor' is the most efficient way to run phosphate remover, it is not the only way. The media can be run (in a media bag) in other types of filters (e.g. canisters) or even just placed in the sump in a high flow area.

- I have never come across a pH issue when using GFO; I am thinking those who do are using too much media or changing it out too frequently

- Use of a pO4 remover should not be detrimental to chaeto algae in a refugium setting; however, it may cause adverse affects towards other macro spp.

- In most cases, you do not have to have an absolute "0" reading on a (quality) low range test kit or meter. In reality, a reading under .05 ppm is more than satisfactory in most cases - and striving for an absolute "0" reading may, in fact, hinder growth in some soft coral species (zoas, too?)

[sirjohn]

Originally posted by carlso63
- I have never come across a pH issue when using GFO; I am thinking those who do are using too much media or changing it out too frequently

My PH dropped from 8.15 to 7.90 shortly after I started using Phosban in a Reactor. I used slightly above the recommended amount of media. The PH drop coincided with the decomposition of nuisance algae as a result of the PO4 drop. My guess is that the drop in PH was the result of excess acid in the water from the decomposing algae, rather than from the use of Phosban itself. In any event, the drop was temporary.

[sabbath]

Originally posted by sirjohn
My PH dropped from 8.15 to 7.90 shortly after I started using Phosban in a Reactor. I used slightly above the recommended amount of media. The PH drop coincided with the decomposition of nuisance algae as a result of the PO4 drop. My guess is that the drop in PH was the result of excess acid in the water from the decomposing algae, rather than from the use of Phosban itself. In any event, the drop was temporary.

I wonder if the .25 ph change wasn't mostly just the normal ph swing that happens through out the day?

[cdentii1]

Originally posted by mgny
Hey cdent, dont have pics of the set -up but it is so simple. I used the rigid hang on u pipe from an old diatom filter cut to the right height to break siphon. Connected black flex tube so algea wont grow in clear pipe. It runs a few feet across the back of the tank into a closet where my sump sits. The reactor sits almost at the bottom of my sump. the flex pipe connects to the ball valve to control flow. I run two of these, the other for my skimmer. Since i dont run a chiller, eliminating two pumps was was huge. There is no problem with any clogging from detritus or anything else in the years i have been doing this. I took it one step further and moved both siphons to the back of my overflow box so they are not visible in my tank. Just make sure they break siphon first before the main tube. Here is a pic of my tank. I have been changing the phosban more often thanks to Jetcat and it has really cleaned up the hair algea. Mike

Wow awesome tank!!!! Maybe I will give that a try, instead I will try a stand pipe inside the overflow box so I wont have to restart the syphon in event of a power failure. Humm...... and my PO4 must have been out of wack as now my tank looks much better than before.

[jdieck]

Originally posted by sirjohn
My PH dropped from 8.15 to 7.90 shortly after I started using Phosban in a Reactor. I used slightly above the recommended amount of media. The PH drop coincided with the decomposition of nuisance algae as a result of the PO4 drop. My guess is that the drop in PH was the result of excess acid in the water from the decomposing algae, rather than from the use of Phosban itself. In any event, the drop was temporary.

It could also be the increase in CO2 caused by the lower consumption by the algae.

[King-Kong]

Or an absorption of o2 by multiplying bacteria masses from the flux of nutrients due to dying algae?

[madadi]

by the time i finished this thread i submited my order for phosban and reactor on drfosterandsmith. i wonder if jetcat is a sales person for phosban lol

[JetCat USA]

Originally posted by madadi
i wonder if jetcat is a sales person for phosban lol

i wish, that way a 1200g bucket wouldn't cost me 94 bucks and force me to have ordered my last bucket from twopartsoultion.com where i also pay full price for it being there is no reef club in my area to get their discount

[sirjohn]

Originally posted by sabbath
I wonder if the .25 ph change wasn't mostly just the normal ph swing that happens through out the day?

At first I thought that might be it, but looking back at my tank log, it has never swung quite that low. It's been swinging between 8 and 8.15. Add phosban in a reactor and a day later, boom 7.90. Might have been a coincidence anyways, but the CO2 theories Kong and others mentioned above sound plausible. It's back to swinging between 8 and 8.15, btw.