Have ICH looky here!!!!!

[Aquarist007]

Originally posted by Dustin_p
So then my only option is hypo then????

I'm not saying that is your only option--just cautioning you about the yellow tang.
I prefer hyposalination, others prefer copper treatments, still others do both. Its a matter of what you are confortable with using.

[jenglish]

Originally posted by Dustin_p
So then my only option is hypo then????

I prefer hypo but both treatments have risks. If you use hypo use a refractometer. The few points a swing arm hydrometer may be off can be the difference between life and death. Some folks will run a glass top on a QT to lower evaporation since evap can cause salinity swings. Hypo does take longer but it takes so long to run the display tank fallow that I don't think for most people it makes a difference.

[Aquarist007]

Originally posted by WaterKeeper
I left it as an open thread so we could get input on other methods of treatment. There have been a few, like using quinine, that held promise but didn't work out long term. Nitroimidazoles may end up being a viable treatment but more reports are needed on the method and results. I guarantee I am not the last word in disease treatment and the original post was pretty much based on a consensus of opinions on treatments that are known to work.

I have updated this blog with most of the information from this thread
http://www.reefcentral.com/wp/?p=286

As you are aware WK this can be updated at anytime and changed or added to.
Perhaps you could make this blog a sticky for awhile and see it if involves into an ich reader that can be refered to.

Scott

[lkc]

Dear Waterkeeper,
I have had my Boxfish & Coral Beauty in a 6.6gal (bookcase) style aquarium with filter (using floss only) since March 6. Three weeks now. I've been treating both for ich. I have been using formalin and going according to the directions on the bottle which is 2 drops per gallon of water. I started out the treatment for a week. Then cycled out the formalin with non medicated water for a week. Then BAM - late last week an ich spot showed up on the tail of the Box fish. Been re-treating ever since. Today, everyone is clear again. My question is, how long can a fish be treated with this kind of lethal chemical without the patient being slowing poisioned? The other question is, the directions on the bottle read two drops per gallon, may this not be enough to kill off the ich? How far can I push this dosage or should I be patient?
I am getting weary of this, I change 95% of the water in the morning and again at night - & re-treat with the formalin each time. Luckily the Box and the Beauty get along great. Can you suggest any thing else? The Box can't do hypo, and the Beauty can't do copper, well..... neither can the Box.

[WaterKeeper]

It probably should be Dear Urchinhead as the formalin portion of this tread is based on his input. The method in the first post is using a dip rather than in tank treatment. Using formalin long term, even in a hospital tank, is probably hard on the fish.

Do you have a canister filter that you can use on the 6 gallon. It need not be a large one. Urchinhead uses a UV but that is costly and a canister works just as well with a <10 micron filter. If you follow the treatment set up in the first post you do the dips for ten days then stop. The fish are then held for 4-6 weeks, I imagine to allow the display to become free of the parasite, and then the fish returned. I'd use that method over a continuous exposure to formalin. As you pointed out it is very toxic.

[lkc]

Urchinhead, my apologies.
Waterkeeper, I have neither a canister nor a UV sterilizer.
I was considering doing the dip, but as I said before, they have been exposed for so long, I am hesitant to do a dip at this time. So, you think the cysts may be hiding in the filter floss? I vacuum the tanks bottom thoroughly and clean the filter floss twice daily. I dont' know how these bastids can still be alive and reinfecting my fish!!! I really didn't have a canister or a UV sterilizer in my future but I will think about it. I am not going to let the fish loose until mid April - If they are clear anyway. Well see. Thanks for the reply.

[WaterKeeper]

Barring the canister then moving the fish is also an option. With that approach you move the fish to another small tank for a day and clean the original tank. Then you move them back and clean the second. The process is repeated for a couple of weeks. This is the tank water change method for curing ich and it seems to work but it hasn't had enough success to be deemed a standard. The dip and water change combined should be reliable to eliminate the parasite. IMO

[mitziem]

Hi, i have a 75gal display tank and notcied my Sweetlips and 2 clowns had ICH. Went ot local SW store and they suggested this treatment called SANO..all natural and safe to add to main tank. I tried this method for about a wk. Clowns didnt have it anymore but Sweetlips developed a whitish coating over her body, alot of rubbing ect. I decided to move them to a 10gal QT. I got some CopperSAfe and started treatment. In testing my water i found my NH3 and NO2 levels were sky high. I did a 50% w/c to bring levels down. (used water from main tank to set up QT tank). after a few days my 2 clowns died. My Sweetlips is surviving so far and her whitish coat has disappeared, breathing is better, skin is better but she has developed what i assume is fina nd tail rot. And because NH3 and NO2 level remained so high , i repeated w/c everyday up anywhere from 30-50% to try getting these levels down. After a week i stopped using the CopperSafe and have just been adding in Maracyn for the fin and tail rot. Problem is it is getting worse. Poor thing has holes in fins where she has some left. Not sure what else to do. I belong to TRAC ( marine group) and havent gotten any response back on this and was hoping might get some suggestions here. I know the CopperSafe is to be used for 30 days but with NH3 and NO2 levels so high and couldnt get down even with 50% w/c...decide i needed to treat fin rot (was told this could be due to high ammonia levels). Any suggestion...she still has a few white spots but whitish, slimmy coat is gone. Help !!! Not sure how to add a pic so you can see for yourself...lol.

[WaterKeeper]

Hmm, the whitish vail suggest that the disease was velvet and not ich. Right now it appears ammonia is the major concern and it will kill fish faster than any disease. I'd get some Amquel or other ammonia binding additive and use that to control the ammonia. Aeromonas sps., a type of coliform bacteria, is often listed as a cause of this disease. Adding an antibiotic to the water is not as effective as having food that contains the antibiotic so that the medication enters the circulatory system.

As you have a 10 gallon hospital tank I would change out all the water and replace it with water from the display. With so many different symptoms present I would also suggest a formalin dip using the regime suggested in the first post in this thread.

I hate to say this but saving the fish sounds chancy at best and I'm not sure it will survive the treatment process. Yet, there is always hope so try some of the suggestions and cross your fingers.

[mitziem]

I have been using AmQUel the last week in with my water changes but really didnt seem to effect the levels any. They have dropped since i stopped using the CopperSafe. As far as the antiboitic Maracyn...its in powdered form...it would be ok to mix powder in with the plankton and mysis shrimp i feed her shouldnt it? Instrustion say to add to water...which would be best IYO.?Tried post pics but havig a difficult time for some reason. I will try again later and see if it works. Thanks for the input....appreciate it

[reefloverd1]

mitziem, I struggled for weeks with the posting of pics. the best way is to upload them onto photobucket and then load them from photobucket to RC thread that is the easiest that I found. (sorry for off subject)

[WaterKeeper]

I'd see if you can get him to eat some medicated flake food. There are several brands avialable.

See Posting pics on RC
and
Using Photobucket
for help with pics

[Aquarist007]

Is this a pretty big tang for a 10 gal qt. Perhaps you should go out and buy a 20 gal plastic tote at Home Depot for eg. Fill that with water from the display tank and add a piece of live rock to help with the ammonia possibly building up. But it should not be as big a problem with 20 gals.
I am not suprised at the tangs reaction to medicines---they seem to do better with hyposalinity treatments rather then copper or chemicals.

[mitziem]

I'm stumped on something with this ICH and copper treatment. I did another 50% w/c with water from main tank..copper lever is low but NO2 and NH3 still remain high... I dont understand with as many 40-50% w/c i have done nightly for the past 4 nights why these levels arent coming down any. Water from main tank is at zero on both these...and i would think with doing a 50% w/c it would cut the level of NO2 and NH3 in half..but it isnt..I added a piece (small) of LR to it tonite..guess ill see if this help... I guess if this isnt any better in the morning i will have to do a complete w/c which i hate to do because of the additional stress on the fish...she's already quit after the 50% w/c and the tank cycling water..but guess water from main tank would be cycled already... Any suggestions?

[WaterKeeper]

Live Rock doesn't remain live for very long in a tank treated with copper or hypo. Use the water changes to control ammonia or you can use something like a biowheel filter if you use hypo.

[187ALLDAY]

I just wanna add to this thread that I used Ich Attack sold at petsmart, its the organic treatment and after one treatment I havent had Ich in my tank for a year and a half.

[WaterKeeper]

You sure you were treating ich in the first place? I think it is a naphthoquinone product but results are not favorable on using that as a ich treatment. I certainly would not use it in my display.

[nickbme06]

Good thread, thanks

[deathdealerps3]

some more info to treat ICH with Temp.

It has been found that Ich does not infect new fish at 29.4°C/85°F (Johnson, 1976), stops reproducing at 30°C/86°F (Dr. Nick St. Erne, DVM, pers. comm.), and dies at 32°C/89.5°F (Meyer, 1984),

[WaterKeeper]

Hi again Death,

I think that refers to Ichthyophthirius multifilis, which is FW ich. Crytocaryon irritans is the causative protozoa for marine ich and can tolerate higher temperatures. Elevated temps do speed the life cycle and can shorten the quarantine period for the marine form.

[mitziem]

OK..here is my problem now...errrr so many it seems. I posted before about high NO2 and NH3 level...using Amquel, water conditioner, ph buffer, and stress zyme. Per Waterkeeper expertise, I did about a 80% w/c.. left just enough water for fish to be in...added in water from main tank and added Amquel to neutralize the water that was left in the tank. NO2 and NH3 levels came down to almost zero....woohooo. But during the last 6days... I stopped using the coppersage even though i had only been treating tank for about 7-8 days with it. In doing different test at various points of make up water (prior to switching and using main tank water) the coppersafe is what was raising my NO2 and NH3 levels. Anyway... so I havent used the coppersafe in Qt for 6 days , but did add daily treatment of Maracyn for fin and tail rot. Once i did the almost complete w/c, sweetlips looks better, is eating much much better , skin is looking great (I'm a happy camper here let me tell you) Problem is its been 2 days since i did the alomost complete w/c and today NO2 and NH3 levels are back up to high and fish has started rubbing on bottom of tank again. Wondering if I possibly added the Ich parasite into my QT tank by using main tank water,,, its been over 3 wks since fish have been in main tank and with no copper in QT tank.. Any suggestions. Fin and tail rot has stopped at this point..doesnt appear to be getting any worse. Any suggestions??? Im thinking i really dont want to do the coppersafe treatment again and was wondering if formalin dip would be better method now... One problem is Sweetlips freaks out when trying to catch here...when she was moved to QT tank she twisted in net and got it wrapped in her gills and around her fin. HELP please !!!

[Aquarist007]

Originally posted by mitziem
OK..here is my problem now...errrr so many it seems. I posted before about high NO2 and NH3 level...using Amquel, water conditioner, ph buffer, and stress zyme. Per Waterkeeper expertise, I did about a 80% w/c.. left just enough water for fish to be in...added in water from main tank and added Amquel to neutralize the water that was left in the tank. NO2 and NH3 levels came down to almost zero....woohooo. But during the last 6days... I stopped using the coppersage even though i had only been treating tank for about 7-8 days with it. In doing different test at various points of make up water (prior to switching and using main tank water) the coppersafe is what was raising my NO2 and NH3 levels. Anyway... so I havent used the coppersafe in Qt for 6 days , but did add daily treatment of Maracyn for fin and tail rot. Once i did the almost complete w/c, sweetlips looks better, is eating much much better , skin is looking great (I'm a happy camper here let me tell you) Problem is its been 2 days since i did the alomost complete w/c and today NO2 and NH3 levels are back up to high and fish has started rubbing on bottom of tank again. Wondering if I possibly added the Ich parasite into my QT tank by using main tank water,,, its been over 3 wks since fish have been in main tank and with no copper in QT tank.. Any suggestions. Fin and tail rot has stopped at this point..doesnt appear to be getting any worse. Any suggestions??? Im thinking i really dont want to do the coppersafe treatment again and was wondering if formalin dip would be better method now... One problem is Sweetlips freaks out when trying to catch here...when she was moved to QT tank she twisted in net and got it wrapped in her gills and around her fin. HELP please !!!

sweet lips and other tangs do much better with hyposalination

[Skinnysloth]

In regards to the hypo treatment, pH will be lower due to the dilution of salt water. Will the fish be able to adapt to the lower pH level or should a buffer, like sodium bicarbonate, be used to bring the pH level back up?

[192clark]

Yes Bring the Ph back up.

[WaterKeeper]

Bake a thin layer of the baking soda in a 350°F oven for 30 minutes and use the baked product which is now sodium carbonate (washing soda). It is better at adjusting pH but use it sparingly so as not to overshoot.