New Vertex Cerebra $699.99 - Intro Price $374.99

[jason2459]

Originally Posted by fcmatt

Did anyone buy the special and then also add in another "power bar", assorted probes, float switches, etc.. and come to the conclusion you are only saving 50 bucks or something compared to an Apex with the same abilities/specs?

I need to sit down and do the math but I am wondering if anyone else already did.

I suppose my aquacontroller junior is due for an upgrade. ;-)

Originally Posted by alton

What I am trying to get at is by the time you add back in what was originally promised the $374 becomes $649.97, so you are saving $50. Why not offer the complete package with a discount of $50? Instead it looks like they are slashing the $699 down to $374?
New Vertex Cerebra $699.99 - Intro Price $374.99

[fcmatt]

Thank you. I should have read that closer. So with that being said I see no reason to rush into this purchase. Saving 50 dollars in this hobby is nothing in the end. Better to buy right the first time then make a possible mistake.

I was worried I was missing out on a great deal. It seems I am not.

[Salty150]

Originally Posted by fcmatt

Thank you. I should have read that closer. So with that being said I see no reason to rush into this purchase. Saving 50 dollars in this hobby is nothing in the end. Better to buy right the first time then make a possible mistake.

I was worried I was missing out on a great deal. It seems I am not.

I don't think you understand...

The regular price for the display, multibar, and temp. probe is $699.

Once you add the salinity probe and PH probe - the price is now $859.

Add the extra powerbar - the price is now $1039.

[reefingnoob]

Originally Posted by fcmatt

Thank you. I should have read that closer. So with that being said I see no reason to rush into this purchase. Saving 50 dollars in this hobby is nothing in the end. Better to buy right the first time then make a possible mistake.

I was worried I was missing out on a great deal. It seems I am not.

I am not sure what was previously promised which take the price to $650 but if you buy the extra probes that new apex comes with, total comes to $590(introductory price).
Also as someone previously wrote that, they should have included everything, then gave a discount, I prefer the low entry price instead! It's easier to be honest with yourself and decide if the product worth investing in or move on to what's proven.

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

[fcmatt]

Originally Posted by Salty150

I don't think you understand...

The regular price for the display, multibar, and temp. probe is $699.

Once you add the salinity probe and PH probe - the price is now $859.

Add the extra powerbar - the price is now $1039.

Oh. Well I feel silly. I am glad I asked!
For some reason I thought this introductory price was for a "beta kit" to get people to buy it. Once over they would come out with a package kit that included more in it for 699.

But then someone just said:

"I am not sure what was previously promised which take the price to $650 but if you buy the extra probes that new apex comes with, total comes to $590(introductory price)."

I think this is what is confusing me. I can buy an apex package that comes with a certain amount of gear for 650. To get the new vertex with the same gear equivalent you have to spend 590. And that is when the vertex is on special. Not even their regular price.

I am sorry. It sounds like I need to visit both manufacturer pages, goto reef websites that sell stuff, and create a flipping spreadsheet :-)

[bfrench]

This is about as bad as some of those video game pre-orders where you need a spread sheet to figure out what is available from who

[cali9dub]

Isn't the vertex compatible with all probes eliminating the need to buy a proprietary probe if you already have probes in use ??

If so that's a pretty significant savings as well !

[Salty150]

Originally Posted by cali9dub

Isn't the vertex compatible with all probes eliminating the need to buy a proprietary probe if you already have probes in use ??

If so that's a pretty significant savings as well !

That is my understanding...

[jason2459]

I might be wrong but the only proprietary probes that DA or Neptune use are the Salinity and Temp. The rest are BNC standard.

[cali9dub]

I like the automatic updates on the vertex. I have to keep updating my apex on an ancient PC because updates always fail on all my Mac computers for some reason. Hate that !

[slief]

Originally Posted by jason2459

I might be wrong but the only proprietary probes that DA or Neptune use are the Salinity and Temp. The rest are BNC standard.

You are correct. The pH probe and ORP probe are standard probes. I think even the new salinity probe is an industry standard probe and not proprietary. Industry standard conductivity probes come with a wide range of connections ranging from BNC, Din, RJ etc. The fact remains that the Apex OEM probes will be very competitive price wise (if not less expensive) with industry standard ones and carry a better warranty. This whole industry standard probe marketing pitch is nothing more than a marketing ploy to lead astray the misguided or ill informed.

Originally Posted by cali9dub

I like the automatic updates on the vertex. I have to keep updating my apex on an ancient PC because updates always fail on all my Mac computers for some reason. Hate that !

That has been changed with the new Apex. Updates can be applied via the App that should be released any day as well as via Fusion and the native web interface from your smart phone or tablet with the push of a button. No more need to use a Windows PC as the Apex downloads and updates itself with the push of a button.

FWIW, I'd be very concerned about automatic updates and it would be something I would disable right off the bat. Updates can have or introduce bugs and I am always careful when it comes to doing updates to any of my devices. We've seen bugs introduced with iOS udpdates, Microsoft as well as Android OS. I don't allow any of my devices whether it's Windows, iOS, Android or anything else to update automatically. I review the update, fixes and allow others to test updates before I apply them. 30 years in the computer industry has provided enough experience for me to know better.

[cali9dub]

I kinda mis-spoke. I said automatic updates, but was actually referring the what you stated. Updates at the push of a button. I agree with not having them load up on their own. Something could go wrong. When you say the new Apex has this feature were you referring to the new firmware update or do you need to purchase the new hardware to enjoy that feature ??

[slief]

When you say the new Apex has this feature were you referring to the new firmware update or do you need to purchase the new hardware to enjoy that feature ??[/QUOTE]

The new (2016) Apex will notify you of a firmware update from your smart phone or any other Apex connected device. If you select update, it will update itself. This feature is not available on the Classic model. At least not yet and I am not sure if that will be a feature that gets implemented in a future firmware update.

[gcarroll]

Originally Posted by slief

The fact remains that the Apex OEM probes will be very competitive price wise (if not less expensive) with industry standard ones and carry a better warranty. This whole industry standard probe marketing pitch is nothing more than a marketing ploy to lead astray the misguided or ill informed.

What kind of warranty does Neptune have for their probes. How about the rest of the industry?

[slief]

Originally Posted by gcarroll

What kind of warranty does Neptune have for their probes. How about the rest of the industry?

Good question. I can only assume it matches their standard Apex warranty and protects the consumer against defects as a result of quality and or workmanship. At least on the Lab Grade ones but I could be wrong. That said, I've owned Apex controllers since the first gen Aqua Controller which I bought new in the mid 90's. I've never once had a premature probe failure with a Neptune probe. That's not to say that they don't fail but I've gotten upwards of 2 years or more out of every Neptune Lab Grade probe I've bought in the last 20+ years which leads me to believe that whoever their OEM probe supplier is, they chose a company who makes good quality probes.

[Salty150]

Originally Posted by slief

The fact remains that the Apex OEM probes will be very competitive price wise (if not less expensive) with industry standard ones and carry a better warranty.

Originally Posted by gcarroll

What kind of warranty does Neptune have for their probes. How about the rest of the industry?

Originally Posted by slief

Good question. I can only assume it matches their standard Apex warranty and protects the consumer against defects as a result of quality and or workmanship. At least on the Lab Grade ones but I could be wrong.

LOL, seriously...

[slief]

Originally Posted by Salty150

LOL, seriously...

I'm glad you found that humorous. I suppose I should have just said that I don't know or maybe I shouldn't have replied? Perhaps I should have researched instead of speculating?? Maybe it was my experience with these products that you found humerous??? So much for contributing to a discussion.

I started digging. Seems the industry standard on electrodes ranges from 90 days to 6 months. Oakton is one of the larger electrode manufacturers. They offer 90 day limited warranties on standard grade and 6 month on lab grade electrodes. Neptune offers 90 days on standard grade probes. I am not sure what they offer on lab grade ones let alone the new dual junction ones but I suspect it's 6 months as well. I can confirm that tomorrow.

Reality is that electrodes are subject to harsh environments and are one of the more commonly neglected items in our hobby. They should be cleaned with regularity and used in a dark enviornment. Most people don't clean their probes often if ever and many people run refugiums in their sump areas where the light will cause algae to grow on the electrodes membrane. This can and will lead to erroneous readings and even premature failure. Improper cleaning can easily damage them as well. As such, there is a good reason why electrode manufacturers limit the warranties on probes.

As I said above, I get 2 years or more out of my probes. My Conductivity probe is about 4 years old and works great. It's the original probe that came with my PM2 which I got when the PM2 was first released a number of years back. My Lab Grade ORP probe is 3+ years old and matches the ORP readings on my Profilux controller despite having never been calibrated. My pH probe is just over 2 years old and still holds calibration just fine.

[laverda]

Originally Posted by fcmatt

Oh. Well I feel silly. I am glad I asked!
For some reason I thought this introductory price was for a "beta kit" to get people to buy it. Once over they would come out with a package kit that included more in it for 699.

But then someone just said:

"I am not sure what was previously promised which take the price to $650 but if you buy the extra probes that new apex comes with, total comes to $590(introductory price)."

I think this is what is confusing me. I can buy an apex package that comes with a certain amount of gear for 650. To get the new vertex with the same gear equivalent you have to spend 590. And that is when the vertex is on special. Not even their regular price.

I am sorry. It sounds like I need to visit both manufacturer pages, goto reef websites that sell stuff, and create a flipping spreadsheet :-)

That is why I have neen saying where is the sale? Its not really a deal just advertising hype. If they were selling this intro package for $650. I don't think hardly anyone eould ne even considering it.
It pretty hard to beat Neptunes customer service on a time tested and proven product. Especially compared to a beta product from a company with a poor customer service reputation.
It would be a no brainer, Apex would be my choice, if I was looking for a controller. Since my AC 3, 3pro and AC 2s all still work great after many years of service, I have no real reason to up grade.

[alton]

The way I look at it if you want the best Apex, just order it today and you can have it by tomorrow
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/new-ap...e-systems.html
If you want the vertex?
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/aquari...x-cerebra.html
Sorry just keep swimming, just keep swimming.
Hey it is Friday the day before the 4th of July Weekend, you have to have a sense of humor. Everyone have a great 4th of July!

[scuzy]

I don't see the hate on this. If you don't like it don't buy it. Why bash it doesn't matter how they push this sale or not. Can't bash something until you try it first hand. Who knows it could be one killer controller until it comes out there shouldn't be any judgement on it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cali9dub]

Originally Posted by scuzy

I don't see the hate on this. If you don't like it don't buy it. Why bash it doesn't matter how they push this sale or not. Can't bash something until you try it first hand. Who knows it could be one killer controller until it comes out there shouldn't be any judgement on it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Haha! No doubt. The rotary phone was one heck of a reliable and cheaper phone, but I'm not getting one. Change and competition is the best thing for this hobby. Bring on the new products !!

[alton]

Originally Posted by scuzy

I don't see the hate on this. If you don't like it don't buy it. Why bash it doesn't matter how they push this sale or not. Can't bash something until you try it first hand. Who knows it could be one killer controller until it comes out there shouldn't be any judgement on it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The hate is not on the product but the promoting of it, and it is not just Vertex that promises the world with send us your money and we will give you a discount if you trust us? This thread and others started out this was going to be better than Apex, but yet no one has one yet? If you are going to bring a product to market, then make sure you have the product at the stores before advertising it. I agree with others, the more the merrier, I love competition.

[burton14e7]

Originally Posted by slief

I'm glad you found that humorous. I suppose I should have just said that I don't know or maybe I shouldn't have replied? Perhaps I should have researched instead of speculating?? Maybe it was my experience with these products that you found humerous??? So much for contributing to a discussion.

The fact remains that the Apex OEM probes will be very competitive price wise (if not less expensive) with industry standard ones and carry a better warranty.

It's not humorous that you said you didn't know or didn't reply, it's that you made an explicit statement that the warranty was better with out any knowledge of it actually being better. I agree that what you said is not humorous at all as your statement lacks integrity which is a grievous mistake.

[gcarroll]

Originally Posted by alton

If you are going to bring a product to market, then make sure you have the product at the stores before advertising it.

Really, Who does this? In this industry, if there is no buzz for the product, retailers are hesitant to take on the product. Just as we hobbyists may be hesitant, retailers are also just as hesitant. The price drop is a tool to reduce that hesitation! Think about it..... Although some may criticize the marketing, we have seen more discussion leading up to the release of this controller than we have ever heard from any non Neptune Systems controller.

We have a lot of new controllers hitting the market and it certainly looks as though only one is appearing to be a challenger to the Apex.

Previous challengers GHL Profilux and Digital Aquatics Archon were never discussed this much.

Then there are the new challengers. The Fishbit, Puratek Insight 24/7, and Tunze Smart Controller 7000 but no one is even discussing those products.

[shermanator]

Originally Posted by gcarroll

Really, Who does this?

There is probably a good, middle ground between claiming something will be out soon over the past six years (yes, the Cerebra has been due out for a looooong time now) and waiting until it's released to promote it (as alton suggested).

I think some of the hate or skepticism about the Cerebra is due to the fact that this was supposed to come out over 6 years ago. And because their recent flurry of claims it's coming soon have already seemed to miss their release date.

I'm skeptical this will be out anytime soon, but I'm not a hater. In fact, if they ever do release it, I might buy one... I signed up for the notification on BRS.