Caribbean Biotope Seagrass Tank

[Michael Hoaster]

Hey SantaMonica!

The wall is made with black pond foam. I sanded it down to get the look and texture I wanted. Also there are 23 (I think) plastic bottles encased inside, providing 'gramma caves'. It's skeletal structure is made with egg crate. There is some silica sand spread about and coated with Bondo brand fiberglass resin, I bought at an auto parts store! If you are interested, I did a build thread on it here:http: //reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2403722

I was attempting to model a mangrove mudbank, while at the same time providing a lot of fish hidey holes. I knew that this tank was going to have only minimal live rock, so I needed to provide something else for housing. I have kept a harem of seven (now six) royal grammas in a 180 gallon tank for two years. Seeing that many in one tank, and having them interact so naturally, has been very rewarding. It may be the best thing I've done, aquarium-wise. I'm sure it could be adapted to other fish species, that like vertical structure.

Kind of a chatty answer to a simple question. Thanks for asking!

[SantaMonica]

Thanks, it really is nice.

[Michael Hoaster]

I’m seeing something on the back wall that may be cyano bacteria. I removed a media bag of bio pellets from the canister filter, to slow any bacteria production. It looks like my algae worries are coming true. I think I will add a molly or two.

I’ve decided to add a couple of new plants, to help soak up excess nutrients. A tricky proposition, with my tank currently running hypo salinity. I need a plant or two that can be happy in these conditions. So I did a little reading.

On a freshwater plant site, they had a section for brackish water plants. Of the choices available, the sagittaria looked like the most likely candidate. Fast growing and not picky about water conditions, sounded like a slam dunk. I swung by my LFS, and happened upon the last sagittaria in the store. One plant with one daughter. I planted it in the little plastic container I used for the plants in my betta bowl. It has a mixture of mostly yard dirt, and calcium carbonate sand. I placed it on the right end of the DSB.

On the salt water side, I went with ulva. From what I’ve read, they seem pretty adaptable too. That I ordered online from live plants. So I’m guessing I’ll have that on wednesday.

Pretty wild mixing fresh water and salt water plants ! It’s a special situation, and a chance to experiment. I’m hoping Mother Nature helps me out a little, too.



See the pinkish patina on the back wall?



The sagittaria. Looks a lot like the turtle grass. Looks even more like vallisneria.

[SantaMonica]

It's not bits of coralline?

[Michael Hoaster]

It could be. I should touch it and see. I doubted that because my established coralline seems to be dying off. It does kind of look like it though. I'll give it a touch in the morning.

I added two female mollies to the one male in the display, for algae consumption. He was understandably excited. I was understandably excited when they started nibbling at the algae on the seagrass…

[Ron Reefman]

Just give a blow at it with a turkey baster. If it's cyano it should just blow off the wall, coraline won't... but you know that (it may help others though).

[Michael Hoaster]

OK, I touched the pinkish stuff on the back wall. It's not coralline algae. I think it's cyano.

I also looked around the tank, and I can find no aiptasia anemones! So, they're either gone or hiding. My guess is if they aren't all dead yet, they will be by hypo treatment's end. However, in QT, there are several aiptasias on the live rocks. This brings me to another issue I've been thinking about: if I don't treat the rocks with hypo, how do I know they're ICH-free? My answer is, I don't. And since I'd love to get rid of ALL aiptasias, this gives me two good reasons to hypo-treat my live rocks. One good reason not to, is that it would kill all the live stuff on it.

Official start date for hypo treatment is Feb 8, 2017. End date will be Mar 22, 2017.

I was thinking of starting hypo treatment in the QT, but then I remembered I have the condylactis anemone in there too. I am NOT adding another tank. So, I think what I'll do is put the nem in the display after hypo treatment, then hypo treat the live rocks in the QT, before returning them to the display. Jeez! I suppose I could toss them in the display now, but given I'm trying to avoid algae outbreaks, that may not be a good idea. More die off is not going to help.

Now that I'm fully ICH-obsessed, I wonder about ALL new additions. What do I do with new live rock? Plants? Live sand? Couldn't ANYTHING from the sea have even one little ICH critter? I suppose I could do a fresh water dip and hope for the best…

[SantaMonica]

All tanks have ich at all times. Just like your body fights off cold and flu illness at all times.

[Michael Hoaster]

One of the grammas succumbed to ich today. Another one looks iffy too. I guess these ich-resistant fish are not immune. I wonder how many fish I'll have left when this is over.

Also I'd like to keep my aquarium's ecosystem alive. Now, with so much macro algae bio mass lost, my big concern is a micro algae bloom.

I consulted Diana Walstad's book, "Ecology of the Planted Aquarium". She talks about tilting the balance in favor of plants rather than algae. One strategy is to deprive algae of water iron. She put fresh charcoal in her filter. "this would remove DOC, along with its propensity to provide iron to algae. Also charcoal would remove any allelochemicals or toxins released by the algae, that might be inhibiting the plants."

Since I likely have quite a soup going on, I decided to use charcoal for the first time on this tank. When I was doing the fresh water changes to lower salinity, I used well water straight from the faucet. I know I have a lot of iron in that water. My tank still has that post-iron-dosing cloudiness.

She also added a fast-growing floating plant, water lettuce. For me, the fast-growing sagittaria and ulva, (sea lettuce) will perform the same duties of using up water nutrients and competing with algae. That assumes these plants can survive in these water conditions.

I resumed CO2 injection, after turning it off for a couple days when the gramma started declining. There was no improvement, so I concluded it was the ich, not the CO2 causing the distress. It's set at a low rate. But I wanted to keep it available to the plants.

Finally, I added half a plant tab to the DSB, near a manatee grass plant. These tabs have phosphate. Seagrasses prefer root uptake of phosphate. By adding only a half a tab, I reduce the risk of stimulating algae growth, and I can watch just the one plant to see if it outgrows its neighbors.

The mollies are doing a good job, eating algae and even cyano bacteria, if that's what it is. I tried to get a pic to prove to the world that mollies do eat cyano, but I didn't get anything worth posting.

As depressing as the situation is, it is also a great opportunity to learn a few new things, so I'm hopeful.

[Chasmodes]

Sorry for the bad news Michael. I am surprised that the ich is hanging on this long.

[Michael Hoaster]

Thanks Chasmodes. Yeah, I've not seeing any scratching for weeks, so it may be a secondary infection brought on by the ich. Or maybe the grammas' resistance just prolonged the whole process. I don't know.

I'm not sure how many grammas I have left, at the moment. I should have five, but I only see four, so one may have died, unnoticed. Not so good if you're trying to avoid an algae outbreak.

My ulva shipped on tuesday and will arrive on thursday. The sagittaria still looks good, but I don't think it's growing. I suspect it will need time to adapt, or it may not and die. Too soon to tell. Hopefully, the ulva can grow in these conditions. In the meantime, I'm feeding lightly and hoping.

I still have several macros neither dying or growing. My guess is most will survive and hopefully revive, once the treatment is over. They appear to be waiting it out, as I would guess happens in nature, after a big rain event or hurricane.

The water looks to be clearing up a bit, after adding charcoal to my canister filter. I am a little encouraged that I'm not in full-blown algae town at the moment. Of course that could all change any day. The seagrasses look pretty good so far, even growing back a bit after the pruning I did. They are still getting encrusted with cyano though.

It looks like things will continue to get uglier during hypo treatment, but I still expect it to rebound afterwards. I wouldn't expect to see a lot of pics from me for awhile…

[Michael Hoaster]

I was able to confirm five grammas today, though they're not out and about, like they would be normally. I suspect all of them are suffering from either ich or secondary infections. I wonder, if I had started hypo treatment sooner, would they be in better shape.

Thinking back, I don't recall ever having success curing sick fish. The best I've done is delay the inevitable. All the more reason to quarantine.

The sagittaria doesn't look so good. Hopefully, the ulva will fare better. It should be here today, soon.



I miss this. 1/2/2016

[SantaMonica]

I'm still a big fan of a strong UV to remove the ich. Then store the UV away until needed again.

[Michael Hoaster]

Sure. Anything that can help. I've run UV before.

I got the ulva in today. GCE gives you a nice portion. I got large sheets of it too. Looks cool in the current. I put some up high, near the light and some on the fake roots. With the sagittaria not looking very good, I really need the ulva to work. I think the seagrasses will make it, but I doubt they will soak up many nutrients during hypo. I need a fast growing export medium. Without it, I fear algae will come around.

So far, the cyano's not too bad. The mollies and snails do a good job, keeping the back wall from getting out of hand. And I've still got a good number of red macros hanging around. Some are even growing a little. The 'Corpse Bride' black grasilaria doesn't seem to mind the conditions either. I've got chaeto scattered around too. I've been struggling to get rid of it, or even just keep it under control, but now I have to leave it be. Ironically, I need it now. So the tank's kind of scrambled mess, of undead plants.

It's really interesting seeing which plants can survive and which ones can't. I've been pretty lucky really. Two things that were plaguing my tank, Cualerpa racemosa and aiptasia anemones, are now gone, thanks to hypo. If I could pick one more plant to go, it would be the turtle grass. It has steadily multiplied and is crowding out the manatee grass, just as it does in nature.

Two weeks into treatment, another month to go…

[Michael Hoaster]

Sure. Anything that can help. I've run UV before.

I got the ulva in today. GCE gives you a nice portion. I got large sheets of it too. Looks cool in the current. I put some up high, near the light and some on the fake roots. With the sagittaria not looking very good, I really need the ulva to work. I think the seagrasses will make it, but I doubt they will soak up many nutrients during hypo. I need a fast growing export medium. Without it, I fear algae will come around.

So far, the cyano's not too bad. The mollies and snails do a good job, keeping the back wall from getting out of hand. And I've still got a good number of red macros hanging around. Some are even growing a little. The 'Corpse Bride' black grasilaria doesn't seem to mind the conditions either. I've got chaeto scattered around too. I've been struggling to get rid of it, or even just keep it under control, but now I have to leave it be. Ironically, I need it now. So the tank's kind of scrambled mess, of undead plants.

It's really interesting seeing which plants can survive and which ones can't. I've been pretty lucky really. Two things that were plaguing my tank, Cualerpa racemosa and aiptasia anemones, are now gone, thanks to hypo. If I could pick one more plant to go, it would be the turtle grass. It has steadily multiplied and is crowding out the manatee grass, just as it does in nature.

Two weeks into treatment, another month to go…

[EdimarOliveira]

Michael, I'm sorry about the problems. I even try to avoid comments on the subject, because each aquarium is a very complex system and it is difficult to say, even more at a distance (much!).

But there is something that has always left me wondering and never had the guts to test: this material that you used for the background wall of the aquarium. I have found nothing to this day on the internet that would attest to your long term safety in the aquarium. I bought a tube a while back, but I did not dare risk it.

Do not you think that, in the long run, such a product with so much chemistry, can not be "slowly" poisoning your tank? Manifested in low immunity of Grammas and problems with some species of macroalgae?

[Michael Hoaster]

Thanks EdimarOliveira. It is possible. It's pond foam, and is supposed to be fish-safe, so I haven't worried.

I think the Lookdowns brought the ich in. And really the grammas have shown to be very resistant, considering the time of exposure. The macros are suffering right now because I am treating the display with hypo salinity. Before that, they were doing well. So I've brought these difficulties on myself, in my efforts to rid the tank of ich. But as I've said, I think the tank will bounce back fine.

I think, with all the back and forth deciding, I waited too long to get the hypo treatment going, and the grammas are suffering for it now. So yes, my tank is a bit out of whack at the moment, and it could easily get worse, but I'm going to ride it out. I knew going in that I was taking some risks, but I'm also learning from this experience. I'm definitely making adjustments as I go, and I'm hoping I get some help from Mother Nature!

How's your tank doing, Edimar? How about an update!

[sam.basye]

What was the reason you decided to go with the hypo plan over increasing the temp to mid 80's?


As far as the foam wall post. There's many people who have been running the foam walls for years with no issues.
With that said, I can't keep anything alive (xenia/digi hermits or snails) in my new 2.5 AIO I made a foam wall for...
After a 100% water change with my display water (which also has a foam wall for the past 2+ years), they act normal for the first day then they start to decline. The nassarius snail starts flipping around like it's trying to crawl out of its skin..
Strange, so the wall could potentially be leaching something.

[Michael Hoaster]

Temp increase alone doesn't kill ich. It's good as part of the treatment. I'm running hypo and 84ºF.

I've had no evidence my wall is leaching anything. But as Edimar pointed out, it could be having subtle, unnoticed affects.

[Chasmodes]

as long as your spray foam was fully cured (inside at the thickest spot), then it is inert and won't have any issues. If you had a spot that the foam was applied too thick, then inside could be not fully cured (a yellow like goo), then that is toxic if it ever got exposed to the water. Your wall is pretty thin, so shouldn't be a problem.

[Michael Hoaster]

Thanks, Chasmodes. I agree.

Sam, you think this could apply to your 2.5?

Got some new pics of the new Ulva.


The ulva perks up an otherwise subdued color scheme.



The seagrasses are still doing okay.



The ulva is gorgeous in the current.

[SantaMonica]

Ulva lactuca is a great fast growing single cell macro, but it would do best in full light at the top, and with high flow to deliver the most nutrients to it.

When grown, it also makes a great salad.

[Michael Hoaster]

Thanks SantaMonica. I agree, but they gave me so much, I decided to spread it around a bit. I had ulva in this tank, earlier in its development, and it did well-especially at the top. But it did well in other locations too. If any pieces don't, I'll move them. I just hope it can withstand hypo salinity and grow.

Given the number of plants still surviving, the low fish load and the age of the tank, I think it is stable enough to absorb this 'event', as long as I don't do anything too stupid. The tricky part is trying to help the plants without helping nuisance algae!

[pfan151]

Originally Posted by SantaMonica

All tanks have ich at all times. Just like your body fights off cold and flu illness at all times.

Nope

[rucnnefish]

I think GAC and lots of it will be your best choice for the tank at this stage of the treatment. As the calerpa perished it released toxins, heavy metals and other nasties back into the water.