cycling question

[zippopunk1]

i have a 40 gallon tank with live rock and about a 4 to 6 inch sand bed. it has been cycling for about 3 weeks. when would it be considered safe to add a sea horse or a pipefish. i have not tested the water yet because i know it would be bad quality. there is no livestock in the tank. the rock was purchased from a store that said it had been cured for about 2 to3 months. and i bought all live sand

[pledosophy]

Have you been adding a bacteria food during the cycle?

IME the best way to tell if a tank is cycled is to test for ammonia and nitrite. If both are zero then dose a source of ammonia like pure unscented ammonia, or your favorite fish food to get the ammonia level up to 1ppm. Then wait 8 hours and test the tank again. If after the second test the ammonia and nitrite are zero, then test for nitrate and pH. Do a water change accordingly. However if after the second test the ammonia or nitrite register at all, then dose more ammonia and wait it out a bit. You do not want to exceed 1ppm for ammonia as levels that high will kill the good bacteria too.

HTH

[zippopunk1]

i havent cycled a tank in awhile should i be doing water changes or not. what would be the easiest pipefish or seahorse to add.

[JennyL]

It's not necessary to do a water change until the end of your cycle.
Once your ammonia and nitrites are clearing to -0- within 12 hours, then test for Nitrates and PH ,these readings will likely be way off but a very large water change will help bring it all under control.

You need to be testing all during the cycle to know exactly where you are in the process. Without testing, you have no idea.

Be sure you are feeding your bacteria to keep them alive and multiplying.

I prefer using ammonia with only water added as mentioned in the previous post.

[pledosophy]

Originally posted by zippopunk1
i havent cycled a tank in awhile should i be doing water changes or not. what would be the easiest pipefish or seahorse to add.

You don't need to do a water change until the tank is cycled.

Have you been feeding the bacteria with an ammonia source?

You kinda gotta answer the questions to help us help you.

[zippopunk1]

no ammonia what do u recomend

[JennyL]

Originally posted by zippopunk1
no ammonia what do u recomend

I am not sure I understand your question. Are you testing zero ammonia or do you mean you have no source of ammonia to feed your bacteria?

You need to understand that these bacteria are a living breathing entity and as such must have food or they die and then you must start over with living bacteria and food for them in order to cycle your tank.

Have you ever added a source of ammonia to feed them? Have you done any testing yet,if so could you please post the results of the tests.

[zippopunk1]

havent added any the guy at the fish store told me all i needed to do was put the live rock in an that would feed the bacteria and get the system started. I will buy a test kit as soon as i get paid

[pledosophy]

In the interest of honesty and fair disclosure I must say that what I do and what is the best preffered method do not line up.

The best way and preffered method by the aquaculture industry is to use a clean source of ammonia. You can find pure unscented ammonia with no additives (including no silicates) at many stores being sold as a cleaning solution. Local to me Smart and Final sells a product as does the dollar store. The concentration of these products varies as does the amount it will take to spike your tank to 1ppm. The variation tak to tak has to do with the amount of water, rock, plumbing, sand, etc so it is not a set per gallon formula.

To use the chemical version you will slowly increase the amount (usually by the mL) and then test, then increase, then test, then increase, then test until you get to 1. Then based on this forumla you dose wait the 8 hours, then test. If the test comes out as .5 ammonia you add half as much ammonia as it took to get to 1. If it comes out a .2 then you add 80% well you get the picture, keep it at 1 for as long as possible. 1 is good, more is bad.

Once the tank will clear 1 ppm to 0 in 8 hours then test for nitrite if the reading is 0 your good. If the reading is not 0 then spike the ammonia back to 1. Repeat until both are zero.

With the chemical method after the ammonia and nitrite both read zero you need to do a 90% WC in order to clear the chemicals and stablaize pH. Once pH is stable and the levels are at 0, your good to go and can add everything you want to the tank that day. There is no need for a slow start with this method.

From my understanding from correspondance with David Warland (he's a member here so he'll call me on it if I'm wrong) that as long as the nitrite and nitrate do not exceed 200 then there is no need to do a water change before the ammonia hits zero, but levels above 200 are harmful to the bacteria you are trying to grow the same as levels above 1ppm ammonia are harmful. David's an old school seahorse breeder and know runs a really large tuna breeding facility so I trust him, never asked him for sources, he does it in the field it works I'm good with that.

What I do is different. I let the rock cure while cooking it meaning I keep it with a lot of flow at a higher temp. Then I add a days worth of food or a cube of mysis per pair of seahorses. I do this over and over again for at least a week or so before I test. You could test to see if the ammonia was above 1 just from the mysis but IME it never has been so I quit testing for it. I' lazy on some things.

When I cycle with mysis after the ammonia hits zero and the nitrite hits zero I add my clean up crew and any macro algaes I desire. Then I continue to feed the tank but add nothing else for the next 12 weeks.

The 12 week mark is actually very important. If you want to add stuff sooner you want to go chemical. The reason for the 12 week lag is that all that extra food is a breeding ground for many things, some good some bad. The pods will go crazy and establish themselves especially the herpactoid pods at first and later the calanoid pods. The herps will eat the extra food the cal's will eat the algae. The 12 weeks also give enough time for all of the unwanted parasites to die. They can come in on the snails or hermits, but can not live past 12 weeks without a live host.

The 12 weeks also gives me time for the tank to go through the other mini cycles they go through the hair algae, the cyano, the diatoms, all without me having to worry about the livestock. During this period I can see exactly how the tank is going to run once I have horses orother livestock and is the ideal time to fix any problems I may have.

Tanks run different. I don't know why. Some of my tanks have had no problems, so show algae problems, some flow stuff, the 12 weeks is great.

After the 12 weeks with my preferred method I feel i really have a good sense of my tank and where it is going and where it will go. many seasoned aquarists cringed just reading this FWIW, but it is what I do and will continue to do, although it is looked down on by most.

The worst way to cycle is with live fish, it's just cruel and then you gotta tear the tank apart to get them out, don't do it.

It is a very common misconception that you can cycle a tank with just liverock. That if you fill a new tank with liverock and wait for the ammonia to read zero that you are ready to go. A tank can read zero ammonia, zero nitrite, and zero nitrate and being completely incapable of supporting life. Zero ammonia just means there is zero ammonia not that the tank has processed it.

HTH

Sorry I'm long winded.