Ways to increase pH

[DSDoyle]

Hello,

My pH readings a read severe constantly low, frequently lower than 7.8. We are in Indiana so leaving doors and windows open during this time of the year is not practical. However, I have doors open and see the pH increasing. I have read that CO2 causes pH do go down so I am trying to figure some way I can keep the CO2 level in the house low.

I know about:

1. Having doors and windows open - Not practical here year around
2. Electric Air Scrubbers
3. Algae Air Scrubbers

Not sure if any are very effective.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Have a great day,

Don

[n2585722]

If you have a skimmer, plumb the air to outide the house. This will help some.

[Orr2003]

The best way to reduce C02 within the home is to install a whole house mechanical ventilation system, basically an exhaust fan for the whole house.

[DSDoyle]

Yeah, I have seen that idea also. Even though I have a skimmer, this is not practical either.

[BlackTip]

My house is new, and I have the same problem. I tried few things, and I found that the most effective way is CO2 scrubber. You can search the forum on how to make one. Unfortunately, it is cost prohibitive for my tank size. Kalk in top off water helps some, and fresh air intake helps a little.

Also, plants should help the overall air quality inside the home.

[mcgyvr]

I always just say keep alk/cal stable and don't worry about PH.. It being a bit on the low side doesn't cause much if any problems..

[BlackTip]

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

I always just say keep alk/cal stable and don't worry about PH.. It being a bit on the low side doesn't cause much if any problems..

My PH has been 7.85-7.95. Over the holidays, I had 8 people over for few days. One night, the PH plummeted to 7.5. My CaRx shut down, alarm went off, text and emails as programmed. I went into damage-control mode. It is always good to have a buffer in PH value in case something like this happen. Not only that, but almost every literature I read recomend 8+ PH. It is hard for me to get my PH above 8, but I really would like to.

[CrayolaViolence]

I'm curious as to how a little bit of CO2 can cause that great of a PH drop. Some sure, but .5 or more seems a little drastic. I'd be interested in the process that allows for it.
Thanks

[disc1]

Originally Posted by CrayolaViolence

I'm curious as to how a little bit of CO2 can cause that great of a PH drop. Some sure, but .5 or more seems a little drastic. I'd be interested in the process that allows for it.
Thanks

Sure it can. One of my favorite threads ever on RC was a guy who was on vacation. He logged into his APEX and saw his pH was crashed. Called home and busted his kids having a big party they weren't supposed to be having.

Somewhere in one of Randy's articles he has a table of CO2 concentration vs. pH. You have to remember that adding CO2 is adding acid. CO2 + H2O ---> H2CO3. That says, carbon dioxide plus water makes carbonic acid.

[CrayolaViolence]

Originally Posted by disc1

Sure it can. One of my favorite threads ever on RC was a guy who was on vacation. He logged into his APEX and saw his pH was crashed. Called home and busted his kids having a big party they weren't supposed to be having.

Somewhere in one of Randy's articles he has a table of CO2 concentration vs. pH. You have to remember that adding CO2 is adding acid. CO2 + H2O ---> H2CO3. That says, carbon dioxide plus water makes carbonic acid.

Yes, I do understand you get carbonic acid, but it would seem like it would take a massive, and I do mean massive amount of CO2 to make that big of an impact. To the point of, if there's that much CO2 you better check and make sure you haven't been relocated to an alien planet.

I'll have to read the thread about the party. That sound hysterical.

[CrayolaViolence]

Was unable to find the thread with a search of key words. I you have an idea of the title or anything that might help narrow it down I'd love to read it.

[power boat jim]

Originally Posted by CrayolaViolence

Yes, I do understand you get carbonic acid, but it would seem like it would take a massive, and I do mean massive amount of CO2 to make that big of an impact. To the point of, if there's that much CO2 you better check and make sure you haven't been relocated to an alien planet.

I'll have to read the thread about the party. That sound hysterical.

Believe it, it doesnt take a massive amount of co2 to lower pH. Just look at how little it takes run a ca reactor. Even having a gas oven on can lower pH a couple tenths in the tank.

[crawlerman]

I work for a contractor/developer and we were having issues with mold in some apartment units. Mostly older people that wouldn't run the air conditioning. We installed timers on the bathroom fans that would run the fan for 15 minutes every hour. Worked well in lowering humidity. I bet it would help on in home CO2. Funny that codes kept making homes more and more air tight. Now code requires us to add a fresh air fan to bring in outside air. Seems kind of senseless. I have a home built in the 70's so it's no problem for me. My last home was new and pH was always around 8, never was a problem.

[BlackTip]

Originally Posted by crawlerman

I work for a contractor/developer and we were having issues with mold in some apartment units. Mostly older people that wouldn't run the air conditioning. We installed timers on the bathroom fans that would run the fan for 15 minutes every hour. Worked well in lowering humidity. I bet it would help on in home CO2. Funny that codes kept making homes more and more air tight. Now code requires us to add a fresh air fan to bring in outside air. Seems kind of senseless. I have a home built in the 70's so it's no problem for me. My last home was new and pH was always around 8, never was a problem.

My home is 2 years old. I have a fresh air duct to let fresh air in when the overhood exhaust fan turned on. Also, there is a fan connected to the HVAC system that let fresh air in periodically. The HVAC tech disabled this function by turning a switch off. He said is has to be installed per code, but he doesn't believe it provide any value. I turned the function on for a day, and the house was very humid, so I shut it off.

[tmz]

Kalk in lieu of aothre alk/ calcium supplements can help a a good deal. The OH- uses CO2 to make carbonate/ bicarbonate alk.

Also , I use diy CO2 scrubbers on my skimmer. They give me a .15to .2 increase in pH;that will vary depending on a number conditions for a particular tank. They cost about a dollar to make ;the soda lime media from med vet and online vendor is reasonable.

These thread may be of interest:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...t=co2+scrubber

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...t=co2+scrubber

[BlackTip]

Originally Posted by tmz

Kalk in lieu of aothre alk/ calcium supplements can help a a good deal. The OH- uses CO2 to make carbonate/ bicarbonate alk.

Also , I use diy CO2 scrubbers on my skimmer. They give me a .15to .2 increase in pH;that will vary depending on a number conditions for a particular tank. They cost about a dollar to make ;the soda lime media from med vet and online vendor is reasonable.

These thread may be of interest:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...t=co2+scrubber

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...t=co2+scrubber

I used CO2 scrubber for couple of months. It does boost the PH quite a bit. I was at 8.2. But, it was too costly for me. I had to fill the canister every 4 days. At $4 a pop, it was too much. I still have half a case from AirGas. $125 a case every 2 months or so.

[disc1]

Originally Posted by CrayolaViolence

Yes, I do understand you get carbonic acid, but it would seem like it would take a massive, and I do mean massive amount of CO2 to make that big of an impact. To the point of, if there's that much CO2 you better check and make sure you haven't been relocated to an alien planet.

I'll have to read the thread about the party. That sound hysterical.

Why would you think it would take a huge amount? Keep in mind that the difference between pH 7 and pH 8 is really very small. That's sub-micromolar amount of acid. The buffering capacity of our water makes it really a bit higher than that but it still isn't a huge number. We could calculate it but I'm in an airport bar on a phone so not now. Still it isn't a whole lot of acid that's needed. Given how much bigger the house is than the tank, an increase in CO2 concentration in the house of just a couple percent could have a big impact on the pH in the tank.

[22bfan]

OP - Are you dosing alk using sodium bicarbonate (lowers ph)? If your reef requires a lot of alk dosing try switching to sodium carbonate (raises ph) for a ph boost. I think kalkwasser was mentioned before. Dosing kalk is a good way to take care of both calcium and alk levels in one shot with a ph bump to boot.

[tmz]

Originally Posted by BlackTip

I used CO2 scrubber for couple of months. It does boost the PH quite a bit. I was at 8.2. But, it was too costly for me. I had to fill the canister every 4 days. At $4 a pop, it was too much. I still have half a case from AirGas. $125 a case every 2 months or so.

I use a lot less. A $100 5 gallon pail from Airgas lasted over a year for the 650 gallon system; changes once per month. The med vet stuff lasts 2 to three weeks. Depends on haow much CO2 is in the air and how much is actually passing through, I think.

[Smokey Stover]

I've read in these forums that running Refuge/Chaeto lighting opposite day/night cycles can help even out dips in PH. Have you tried that?

[Scorpius]

The only cheap and sure fire way to keep your ph up is to get fresh air into your house all the time or fresh air to your skimmer.

I ended up drilling a hole in my wall and routed a fresh air line to my skimmer. PH of 8 in the winter now. Every other option introduces parameter swings and/or requires constant monitoring on out part.

Air scrubbers require media change. Kalk adds parameter swings. Refugiums do little to battle co2 unless you run a HUGE setup. Believe me when I say a hole in the wall to get fresh air to your skimmer will solve your problem for good and doesn't require any maintenance.

[2una]

bigger or extra skimmer can also help....maybe not so much if the room is high Co2 but it must help lower the carbonic acid from other factors within the tank which does help keeping the ph from falling more lower than it would without.
Gave me about the same bump as what a Co2 scrubber does
(its not the skimming factor helping its the extra aeration)

[blasterman789]

I'm convinced that C02 /Carbonic acid levels can have detrimental effect on captive corals, but can't put a firm number on it. My own theory is that there's a relationship here with calcium carbonate saturation levels and pH and tank size that has yet to be determined. When I kalk my small tanks at night the effect on SPS is dramatic and obvious. I've seen birdsnests and digipora respond with improved calcification within 48 hours if I haven't run kalk in a few months and then start. Then again I've owned plenty of big tanks with reactors where mean pH levels were far lower than my current small tanks, and yet the former grew SPS like crazy. I've also noted that higher alk levels in small tanks seem to be mandatory to help buffer against nightly pH swings. So, IMO, it's not pH levels that are the problem. It's pH levels in relation to other things in the water, and I've never quantified what 'other' is other than SPS in big tanks doesn't seem as bothered by persistent low pH as in smaller tanks.

[tmz]

Originally Posted by Smokey Stover

I've read in these forums that running Refuge/Chaeto lighting opposite day/night cycles can help even out dips in PH. Have you tried that?

Yes, that helps and gives some oxygen too.

[tmz]

Adding outside air is a good thing if you can ;just insure the air intake tube is large enough to avoid restricting airflow to the skimmer. It's not the only way though. Kalk can be dosed slowly without parameter swings. There are several other ways you can try if you like.