xenia scrubber instead of algae scrubber?

dolt · 03/03/2006, 08:51 PM

I was feeding my fish at my office in my softy tank and noticed that there was absolutely no nuisance algae - this tank is a little neglected (last water change months ago - I know I'm a bad boy)it has just a few fish in it and they are not large and tons of red sea xenia green star polyps and zoanthids and a crappy skimmer that is so small and ineffective - I do not feed a lot in this tank - at home I have my spoiled baby SPS tank - it gets huge water changes every week, has a great protein skimmer, much better circulation but I have some nuisance algae - the sps tank gets fed very little and has a pretty low fish load as well - this led me to believe that it must be the xenia and they must obviously be better at using up nutrients in the water - I was wondering if anyone has experience using xenia and harvesting them from their sump like chaeto or other macroalgae? and if so does it work well? I'm thinking about giving it a try

MIKE NY · 03/03/2006, 10:08 PM

I'm using red sea xenia along with chaeto in my fuge....every little bit helps.

dolt · 03/03/2006, 10:15 PM

which seems to grow faster or more?

Amphiprion · 03/03/2006, 10:24 PM

some sort of study showed that Xenia sp. consumed substantially more nitrate than Caulerpa and Chaetomorpha algae per unit mass. The same applied to certain DOCs as well.

dolt · 03/03/2006, 10:30 PM

how about phosphates?

Znut Reefer · 03/03/2006, 10:36 PM

I'm also using 3 different types of xenia in my refuge, no macro alge since its a bare bottom sps reef.

Amphiprion · 03/03/2006, 10:44 PM

I would assume that they use a proportional amount of phosphate as well, but don't quote me on that.

jsweir · 03/03/2006, 11:21 PM

Only problem is in a low nutrient sps system they wither away. Mine only last a few weeks. But I am BB...

jay24k · 03/04/2006, 01:38 AM

I have alot of Xenia in my 180 and I have 0 nuisance algae. I wonder if the Xenia really helps because of the lack of issues I have. MY side glass which is 18" deep because of the 6" overflow, 24" tall is pretty much solid covered in it. I also have the short mat Xenia on the back glass that is probably covering about a square foot currently. It grows fairly decent for me.

I don't know if I believe the nutrient bandwagon per se. I've seen several tanks that have nutrient problems that can't grow Xenia and others that are nutrient starving tanks with Xenia growing nuts. I think overall they do help some but I don't know to what extent.

jsweir · 03/04/2006, 09:00 AM

Interesting. I would like to know what the limiting factor is. I really like xenia and would like to keep at least a little in the tank. I just can't for some reason...

Jeremy Blaze · 03/04/2006, 10:29 AM

Check out Garf, they had a big thing about xenia filters.

dolt · 03/04/2006, 12:03 PM

cool guys thanks for the great info - I think that I am going to try this - I do not have a huge phosphate problem (is less than 0.03 by salifert) but still have this annoying brown plating algae on my rocks a little - and I am not barebottom - anyone know where I might find that article that addresses this? also is anyone using just xenia without macroalgae in a fuge or otherwise?

Mr aqua · 03/04/2006, 12:39 PM

I had brown plating until I got a purple tang...

Jeremy Blaze · 03/04/2006, 12:45 PM

Are you wanting an article about the brown algae, or the xenia filter?

As I said, Garf has info on it, and had an article in an old Marine FIsh Monthly

dolt · 03/04/2006, 01:19 PM

I was looking for the article that Amphiprion referred to above - I'll check the garf stuff and see if it is there

dolt · 03/04/2006, 01:26 PM

I could not find anything on garf about xenia used as a nutrient export mechanism - there was stuff on there about xenia propagation for sale though - maybe I was looking in the wrong parts? I also looked under filtration but nothing

G-money · 03/04/2006, 02:20 PM

Amphiprion,

Can you point us to the study on the nitrate uptake of Xenia. I'd be interested in reading that.

It would make sense, since Xenia (as far as I know) aren't very capable of capturing prey. I have a BB tank and had just a little pompom on a rock when I started. Now I have to prune like a madman just to keep it in check - eradicating it is unfortunately out of the question...

I guess I could cover the whole rock in a layer of epoxy.

Jeremy Blaze · 03/04/2006, 02:39 PM

Yeah, I could not find it on their site anymore. Try e mailing them, I know it was garf that did a lot on it and were using some large xenia bed filters on some tanks.

If anyone has old MFM it was in 99 or 2000 I believe.

onthefly · 03/04/2006, 02:51 PM

I'm with jswier......

I love the look of the stuff, but in my system it dies in a month. So do all forms of macro algae.

dolt · 03/04/2006, 04:00 PM

well you guys are doing something better than I am as I have a minor algae problem, and if you have that, you have a nutrient problem - I am just looking for a "natural" way of taking care of it - I was going to get chaeto, but have not gotten around to it, and this just seems easier (and hopefully better) I have resorted to using phosban, but it has played havoc with my alk (and it is expensive - xenia are free)

Jeremy Blaze - I see that you are skimmerless - what do you use then for nutrient export? do you have a lot of SPS (you gallery shows as lot of softy type stuff) - I have always been curious about skimmerless systems

Jeremy Blaze · 03/04/2006, 07:14 PM

I use various types of algae, as well as carbon and phosban. I also feel my clams help with it as well. I have a few acros and a lot of zoas, heres some pics of it,

dolt · 03/04/2006, 09:00 PM

very nice - that sqamie looks pretty big - I am going to set it up tomorrow - I spent all day cleaning pumps, skimmer etc so did not get around to it today

Reefflections · 03/04/2006, 11:25 PM

For the ones that can't keep Zenia.Are you using any Potassium Iodide 1% in your system,or even PFI ? They love the stuff.Also will help all your other corals,including coloring up your SPS's even more?What they really thrive on is DT's which it seems a lot of folks don't use as much anymore.I had to rip ever piece of Zenia out,it grew like wild fire.And spread everywhere.
Also Z-nut talk to you on Sunday.

bowfront · 03/05/2006, 12:23 AM

Funny stuff this Xenia. I've spent several years trying to eradicate it after switching to a predominate SPS tank.

Jeremy Blaze · 03/05/2006, 09:32 AM

Well, I've heard that they like iodide, but it can be toxic in small doses as weel, and never really proven that they actually use it, to my knowledge. As for DT's, it has been shown that Xenia does not feed on any matter, instead relys on photosythisis, I believe this is discussed in Bornemans book.

03/03/2006, 08:51 PM	#1
dolt Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: michigan Posts: 397	xenia scrubber instead of algae scrubber? I was feeding my fish at my office in my softy tank and noticed that there was absolutely no nuisance algae - this tank is a little neglected (last water change months ago - I know I'm a bad boy)it has just a few fish in it and they are not large and tons of red sea xenia green star polyps and zoanthids and a crappy skimmer that is so small and ineffective - I do not feed a lot in this tank - at home I have my spoiled baby SPS tank - it gets huge water changes every week, has a great protein skimmer, much better circulation but I have some nuisance algae - the sps tank gets fed very little and has a pretty low fish load as well - this led me to believe that it must be the xenia and they must obviously be better at using up nutrients in the water - I was wondering if anyone has experience using xenia and harvesting them from their sump like chaeto or other macroalgae? and if so does it work well? I'm thinking about giving it a try

03/03/2006, 10:08 PM	#2
MIKE NY Two Decade club Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Franklin Square, N.Y. Posts: 4,381	I'm using red sea xenia along with chaeto in my fuge....every little bit helps. __________________ Proud LIRA Member February 2011 Manhattan Reefs TOTM Current Tank Info: 170 gal Reef, 20 gal frag/reef,90 gal fuge, 65 gal sump, 2-250 Radiums on Hamilton M80 HQIs, T5 actincs, Vertex in280 skimmer, MRC-2 Cal Reactor, Reeflo return pump

03/03/2006, 10:24 PM	#4
Amphiprion Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mobile, AL Posts: 6,611	some sort of study showed that Xenia sp. consumed substantially more nitrate than Caulerpa and Chaetomorpha algae per unit mass. The same applied to certain DOCs as well. __________________ You've done it now, haven't you? Current Tank Info: 40g breeder patch reef w/ seagrass; 2-250w XM 10K; Vortech MP40wES & MP10wES; BM Curve 7 skimmer; carbon & occasional GFO

03/03/2006, 10:44 PM	#7
Amphiprion Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mobile, AL Posts: 6,611	I would assume that they use a proportional amount of phosphate as well, but don't quote me on that. __________________ You've done it now, haven't you? Current Tank Info: 40g breeder patch reef w/ seagrass; 2-250w XM 10K; Vortech MP40wES & MP10wES; BM Curve 7 skimmer; carbon & occasional GFO

03/03/2006, 11:21 PM	#8
jsweir Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: FL Panhandle Posts: 1,641	Only problem is in a low nutrient sps system they wither away. Mine only last a few weeks. But I am BB... __________________ Hobby Experience: 2 yrs Current Tanks: 180 gallon sps 3 x 250W ROIII pendants 4 x 54W T5 3 x phoenix 14K on icecap ballasts H&S A150-2001 skimmer 2 x Tunze 6200/multicontroller/wavebox

03/03/2006, 10:15 PM	#3
dolt Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: michigan Posts: 397	which seems to grow faster or more?

03/03/2006, 10:30 PM	#5
dolt Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: michigan Posts: 397	how about phosphates?

03/03/2006, 10:36 PM	#6
Znut Reefer Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Claxton, Ga Posts: 3,396	I'm also using 3 different types of xenia in my refuge, no macro alge since its a bare bottom sps reef.

03/04/2006, 01:38 AM	#9
jay24k Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Leesburg, Florida Posts: 6,546	I have alot of Xenia in my 180 and I have 0 nuisance algae. I wonder if the Xenia really helps because of the lack of issues I have. MY side glass which is 18" deep because of the 6" overflow, 24" tall is pretty much solid covered in it. I also have the short mat Xenia on the back glass that is probably covering about a square foot currently. It grows fairly decent for me. I don't know if I believe the nutrient bandwagon per se. I've seen several tanks that have nutrient problems that can't grow Xenia and others that are nutrient starving tanks with Xenia growing nuts. I think overall they do help some but I don't know to what extent.

03/04/2006, 09:00 AM	#10
jsweir Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: FL Panhandle Posts: 1,641	Interesting. I would like to know what the limiting factor is. I really like xenia and would like to keep at least a little in the tank. I just can't for some reason... __________________ Hobby Experience: 2 yrs Current Tanks: 180 gallon sps 3 x 250W ROIII pendants 4 x 54W T5 3 x phoenix 14K on icecap ballasts H&S A150-2001 skimmer 2 x Tunze 6200/multicontroller/wavebox

03/04/2006, 10:29 AM	#11
Jeremy Blaze Former Reef Addict Join Date: May 2003 Location: New Washington, IN Posts: 5,864	Check out Garf, they had a big thing about xenia filters. __________________ Trust me my friend, the names are not important at all. I've own hundreds of different zoas and palys and don't know the name of a single one. In my opinion, they are a waste of valuable time. Mucho Reef

03/04/2006, 12:03 PM	#12
dolt Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: michigan Posts: 397	cool guys thanks for the great info - I think that I am going to try this - I do not have a huge phosphate problem (is less than 0.03 by salifert) but still have this annoying brown plating algae on my rocks a little - and I am not barebottom - anyone know where I might find that article that addresses this? also is anyone using just xenia without macroalgae in a fuge or otherwise?

03/04/2006, 12:39 PM	#13
Mr aqua Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: So Cali Posts: 258	I had brown plating until I got a purple tang...

03/04/2006, 12:45 PM	#14
Jeremy Blaze Former Reef Addict Join Date: May 2003 Location: New Washington, IN Posts: 5,864	Are you wanting an article about the brown algae, or the xenia filter? As I said, Garf has info on it, and had an article in an old Marine FIsh Monthly __________________ Trust me my friend, the names are not important at all. I've own hundreds of different zoas and palys and don't know the name of a single one. In my opinion, they are a waste of valuable time. Mucho Reef

03/04/2006, 01:19 PM	#15
dolt Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: michigan Posts: 397	I was looking for the article that Amphiprion referred to above - I'll check the garf stuff and see if it is there

03/04/2006, 01:26 PM	#16
dolt Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: michigan Posts: 397	I could not find anything on garf about xenia used as a nutrient export mechanism - there was stuff on there about xenia propagation for sale though - maybe I was looking in the wrong parts? I also looked under filtration but nothing

03/04/2006, 02:20 PM	#17
G-money Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 2,250	Amphiprion, Can you point us to the study on the nitrate uptake of Xenia. I'd be interested in reading that. It would make sense, since Xenia (as far as I know) aren't very capable of capturing prey. I have a BB tank and had just a little pompom on a rock when I started. Now I have to prune like a madman just to keep it in check - eradicating it is unfortunately out of the question... I guess I could cover the whole rock in a layer of epoxy. __________________ I'll shut up now... Current Tank Info: 120 reef, 75 plant

03/04/2006, 02:39 PM	#18
Jeremy Blaze Former Reef Addict Join Date: May 2003 Location: New Washington, IN Posts: 5,864	Yeah, I could not find it on their site anymore. Try e mailing them, I know it was garf that did a lot on it and were using some large xenia bed filters on some tanks. If anyone has old MFM it was in 99 or 2000 I believe. __________________ Trust me my friend, the names are not important at all. I've own hundreds of different zoas and palys and don't know the name of a single one. In my opinion, they are a waste of valuable time. Mucho Reef

03/04/2006, 02:51 PM	#19
onthefly Getting back into it! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Ambler, PA Posts: 765	I'm with jswier...... I love the look of the stuff, but in my system it dies in a month. So do all forms of macro algae.

03/04/2006, 04:00 PM	#20
dolt Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: michigan Posts: 397	well you guys are doing something better than I am as I have a minor algae problem, and if you have that, you have a nutrient problem - I am just looking for a "natural" way of taking care of it - I was going to get chaeto, but have not gotten around to it, and this just seems easier (and hopefully better) I have resorted to using phosban, but it has played havoc with my alk (and it is expensive - xenia are free) Jeremy Blaze - I see that you are skimmerless - what do you use then for nutrient export? do you have a lot of SPS (you gallery shows as lot of softy type stuff) - I have always been curious about skimmerless systems

03/04/2006, 07:14 PM	#21
Jeremy Blaze Former Reef Addict Join Date: May 2003 Location: New Washington, IN Posts: 5,864	I use various types of algae, as well as carbon and phosban. I also feel my clams help with it as well. I have a few acros and a lot of zoas, heres some pics of it, __________________ Trust me my friend, the names are not important at all. I've own hundreds of different zoas and palys and don't know the name of a single one. In my opinion, they are a waste of valuable time. Mucho Reef

03/04/2006, 09:00 PM	#22
dolt Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: michigan Posts: 397	very nice - that sqamie looks pretty big - I am going to set it up tomorrow - I spent all day cleaning pumps, skimmer etc so did not get around to it today

03/04/2006, 11:25 PM	#23
Reefflections Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 861	For the ones that can't keep Zenia.Are you using any Potassium Iodide 1% in your system,or even PFI ? They love the stuff.Also will help all your other corals,including coloring up your SPS's even more?What they really thrive on is DT's which it seems a lot of folks don't use as much anymore.I had to rip ever piece of Zenia out,it grew like wild fire.And spread everywhere. Also Z-nut talk to you on Sunday.

03/05/2006, 12:23 AM	#24
bowfront 10 & Over Club Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Florida Posts: 1,663	Funny stuff this Xenia. I've spent several years trying to eradicate it after switching to a predominate SPS tank.

03/05/2006, 09:32 AM	#25
Jeremy Blaze Former Reef Addict Join Date: May 2003 Location: New Washington, IN Posts: 5,864	Well, I've heard that they like iodide, but it can be toxic in small doses as weel, and never really proven that they actually use it, to my knowledge. As for DT's, it has been shown that Xenia does not feed on any matter, instead relys on photosythisis, I believe this is discussed in Bornemans book. __________________ Trust me my friend, the names are not important at all. I've own hundreds of different zoas and palys and don't know the name of a single one. In my opinion, they are a waste of valuable time. Mucho Reef