Beneficial Bacteria in the Water Column?

cwschoon · 07/12/2021, 10:49 PM

I am trying to explain to someone that there is very little beneficial bacteria in the water column and using old tank water will not assist the cycling process to any significant degree-rather unsuccessfully. Does anyone have any decent explanation, links that would explain this? This article does not exist anymore: https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2011/3/aafeature
Thanks.

Timfish · 07/13/2021, 07:38 AM

Sorry but I'll disagree. All the benthic organisms, stuff grwoing on the substrate, in a reef system are manipulating the aurabiome, microbes in the water. Some of these microbes are beneficial for corals ans some are not.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28828261/

cwschoon · 07/13/2021, 08:05 AM

Thanks for the reply. I was specifically referencing nitrifying bacteria and the cycle.

Timfish · 07/15/2021, 06:27 AM

In that case, some likely is happening with the microbes in the water. It's happening within the coral holobiont too. A simple test to see how much is happening in the water is take a quart of aquarium water, test ammonia, drop in some ammonia then test hourly for 6-8 hours.

outssider · 07/15/2021, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cwschoon

I am trying to explain to someone that there is very little beneficial bacteria in the water column and using old tank water will not assist the cycling process to any significant degree-rather unsuccessfully. Does anyone have any decent explanation, links that would explain this? This article does not exist anymore: https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2011/3/aafeature
Thanks.

They would be much better off using new water but using a little of the old substrate..

Timfish · 07/16/2021, 07:14 AM

If you're sticking strictly to just introducing nitrifying bacteria that's a very common way to start the cycle. But microbial stuff in reef ecosystems are far more complex than just converting inorganic nitrogen forms from ammonia to nitrite to nitrate. You have organic and particulate forms of nitrogen in the nitrogen cycle. Same goes for the phosphorus and carbon cycles. Of particular interest is Dissolved ORganic Carbon (DOC) as there are types (or species as is sometimes used by researchers) of DOC that is beneficial for corals and types of DOC that promotes pathogenic shifts int coral microbiomes. Innoculating a reef new reef system with the DOC as well as some of the microbial stuff that is beneficial for corals seems like a good idea to me. Obviously a donor system needs to be doing well but this technique is one I've been using for a couple decades and not only reduces nuisance algae in new ssytems but I've found it useful in remediating reef systems that have been stressed and have nuisance algae causing problems.

These are complex subjects and you might find these videos informative:

Forest Rohwer "Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R2BMEfQGjU

Changing Seas - Mysterious Microbes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7hsp0dENEA

Nitrogen cycling in hte coral holobiont
https://youtu.be/DWItFGRQJL4

BActeria and Sponges
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oLDclO7UcM

Richard Ross What's up with phosphate"
https://youtu.be/ZRIKW-9d2xI

cwschoon · 07/16/2021, 07:40 AM

My only "goal" here, was to give good and simple information to someone who was entering the hobby and to counteract harmful, anecdotal information AND to ensure I was being accurate. My main point, was that using "old" water was not enough to cycle aquaria or at the very least, was not the most efficient way.

Fiish · 07/16/2021, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cwschoon

My only "goal" here, was to give good and simple information to someone who was entering the hobby and to counteract harmful, anecdotal information AND to ensure I was being accurate. My main point, was that using "old" water was not enough to cycle aquaria or at the very least, was not the most efficient way.

Yes, old water is just that, but unfortunately there are aquarium stores that continue to recommend this to beginning aquarists.

07/12/2021, 10:49 PM	#1
cwschoon Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,318	Beneficial Bacteria in the Water Column? I am trying to explain to someone that there is very little beneficial bacteria in the water column and using old tank water will not assist the cycling process to any significant degree-rather unsuccessfully. Does anyone have any decent explanation, links that would explain this? This article does not exist anymore: https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2011/3/aafeature Thanks.

07/13/2021, 07:38 AM	#2
Timfish Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,985	Sorry but I'll disagree. All the benthic organisms, stuff grwoing on the substrate, in a reef system are manipulating the aurabiome, microbes in the water. Some of these microbes are beneficial for corals ans some are not. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28828261/ __________________ "Our crystal clear aquaria come nowhere close to the nutrient loads that swirl around natural reefs" Charles Delbeek

07/15/2021, 06:27 AM	#4
Timfish Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,985	In that case, some likely is happening with the microbes in the water. It's happening within the coral holobiont too. A simple test to see how much is happening in the water is take a quart of aquarium water, test ammonia, drop in some ammonia then test hourly for 6-8 hours. __________________ "Our crystal clear aquaria come nowhere close to the nutrient loads that swirl around natural reefs" Charles Delbeek

07/16/2021, 07:14 AM	#6
Timfish Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,985	If you're sticking strictly to just introducing nitrifying bacteria that's a very common way to start the cycle. But microbial stuff in reef ecosystems are far more complex than just converting inorganic nitrogen forms from ammonia to nitrite to nitrate. You have organic and particulate forms of nitrogen in the nitrogen cycle. Same goes for the phosphorus and carbon cycles. Of particular interest is Dissolved ORganic Carbon (DOC) as there are types (or species as is sometimes used by researchers) of DOC that is beneficial for corals and types of DOC that promotes pathogenic shifts int coral microbiomes. Innoculating a reef new reef system with the DOC as well as some of the microbial stuff that is beneficial for corals seems like a good idea to me. Obviously a donor system needs to be doing well but this technique is one I've been using for a couple decades and not only reduces nuisance algae in new ssytems but I've found it useful in remediating reef systems that have been stressed and have nuisance algae causing problems. These are complex subjects and you might find these videos informative: Forest Rohwer "Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R2BMEfQGjU Changing Seas - Mysterious Microbes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7hsp0dENEA Nitrogen cycling in hte coral holobiont https://youtu.be/DWItFGRQJL4 BActeria and Sponges https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oLDclO7UcM Richard Ross What's up with phosphate" https://youtu.be/ZRIKW-9d2xI __________________ "Our crystal clear aquaria come nowhere close to the nutrient loads that swirl around natural reefs" Charles Delbeek

07/13/2021, 08:05 AM	#3
cwschoon Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,318	Thanks for the reply. I was specifically referencing nitrifying bacteria and the cycle.

07/16/2021, 07:40 AM	#7
cwschoon Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,318	My only "goal" here, was to give good and simple information to someone who was entering the hobby and to counteract harmful, anecdotal information AND to ensure I was being accurate. My main point, was that using "old" water was not enough to cycle aquaria or at the very least, was not the most efficient way.