High nitrates

[Croff]

Hello,

I started using AF products 7 weeks ago. I have a Red Sea Reefer 170, nitrate was 2-3, phosphate 0,02-0,03 using NOPOX. Since I changed to AF, nitrates climbed to 16 and phosphates to 0,3. I dose Pro Bio S (2 drops daily) and -NP pro ( 4 drops daily). Do you think I should increase even more -NP pro dosing? With my water volume (less than 140 liters) 1-2 drops daily was supposed to be OK. I also added 1 liter of Siporax since I began using AF products.

Thank you

[plyle02]

Hello Croff,
Can you please list all parameters? Also, please indicate how your skimmer is working. With siporax, it takes 6+ weeks before the biological aspects begin working, so it will take a bit of time. Are you shaking the Pro Bio S before use? I would not increase NP Pro, the system can take time to begin working properly. Please explain how the corals and fish look? Are you using Probiotic Reef Salt, if you are, are you doing regular water changes, and how many gallons? I would only suggest you do 2 drops of each daily. What else is being dosed in the system? Also, you can add phos minus to lower your phosphates. In good time, the siporax will seed and through continued use of Pro Bio S and NP Pro, the levels should fall to proper range. Please look over the system in detail and ensure there are not other contributing husbandry factors being over looked as well. Cheers

[Croff]

Hello Perry,
My system it's been working since October, and my actual parameters are Ca 405, Kh 7.5, Mg 1230. Skimmer seems Ok, I am using a Deltec 1351, Probiotic Reef Salt (15 liters change every 10 days), Component 1,2,3+ and Coral A,V,B,E. I know that it takes some time for Siporax to begin working, but what seemed odd to me was that for several months and using only NOPOX, nitrates and phosphates were low, and now they have climbed to 16 and 0,3. I have lost three corals, but possibly due to low alkalinity three weeks ago, the rest seem fine. I'll cut NP Pro dosing to two drops as you suggest and wait a little longer to see if Siporax starts working.
Thank you

[plyle02]

Hey Croff,
Although NOPOX is a C-source based system, I would imagine the ingredients and applications are much different. For now, I would do a larger water change, and continue to do so weekly if possible. For phosphates, I would simply add Phos Minus and Carbon in one reactor, that will help further reduce the nutrients, the increased volume in water changes will also help. Once your siporax seeds, it will likely pull NO3 down pretty low, you can increase the dose of both Pro Bio S and NP Pro to 3 drops each daily, with close observation. The bacteria needs to be established within the tank, obviously on siporax media, but also in the confines of the tank, including live rock and sand. Switching from one system to another, you may find different results, but through continued use, the system will balance. You may see biofilm build on the sand, rocks, glass, and plastics of the tank, this is normal as it begins the process. Please report back and do not hesitate to ask as many questions as you need to, I would love to see you yield the desired results Cheers

[Croff]

I'll do that. Thank you

[Croff]

Hello again,
Ten more days and no changes... NO3 16 and phosphates 0,3. Dosing 2 drops of Pro Bio S and NP Pro daily. Would it be a good idea to begin using Zeo Mix and Phosphate Minus? I know they are supposed to be used in a reactor, but I don't own one; would them work if used in a bag inside the sump? Also, my Siporax it's been in the sump for 9 weeks, shouldn't it be already working?
Thank you

[plyle02]

Yes they can be used passive, just take it out of the sump and knead every couple of days to avoid clumping. How does the tank look? Have you tried other test kits too, or brought to LFS to test? Just keep at what you are doing, in time everything will balance.

[Croff]

Is it better to use them in the same bag or one bag for each? Can they be used together with carbon, as they are used in reactors?
No, I haven't tried with other test kit, but I will. The tank looks fine, but some corals are fading.
Thank you again

[plyle02]

I would test right away, fading usually implies starvation, which would not agree with a nitrate and phosphate level indicated. I would keep them separate in the mesh bags, but they do work well stacked in fluidized reactors. This method would work best if you can manage it, if not, passive will work. With these systems, observance is far superior than chasing numbers

[Croff]

I'm sorry, but english is not my first language... I didn't mean fading, they are receding. One acanthastrea, one favites, one seriatopora and one caulastrea. Except the caulastrea that never was happy, all were doing fine and growing before changing to Aquaforest. Do you think that could be caused by the increase in nitrate and phosphate? Or maybe something else?

[plyle02]

Any updates Croff?

[Croff]

Still the same. I just measured nitrates and they are 16. Also measured nitrates in top off water just to be sure and they are 0. Ca 415, Mg 1240, K 8. Haven't add Zeo Mix nor Phosphate Minus yet but I think I will try again NOPOX while still using Pro Bio S an NP Pro, just to see what happens.

[Croff]

Some of my corals are still receding and my acanthastrea has almost disappeared. Do you think that with those nitrates I should stop using coral A, V, B, E? Or just the contrary and increase its quantity? I'm now using 1 drop of each every 2 days (my aquarium is 150 liters)

[plyle02]

Croff, I doubt having 16ppm is the reason for the coral decline. I would continue to use the Pro Bio S, and NP Pro, you could increase it to 2 drops per day, and see if this impacts the NO3. Keep in mind that PO4 needs to be present for them to both drop, so if you are at 0.00, this might be why you cannot limit NO3. Water changes are the best way to lower, so I would advise to do water changes frequently, once the balance is achieved, then you can up the dose on food supplements. Cheers

[Croff]

PO4 is 0,3. It,s been more or less the same since I started using AF products, just like the NO3 at 16. It also seemed to me that 16 NO3 wasn't that high and the reason for my corals decline, but everything was thriving before I made the change to AF, and I'm not sure what to do... I keep the same maintenance schedule, the same water changes, the same light intensity... Everything is the same except AF.
NO3 16, PO4 0,3 since I started using the products 3 months ago without being able to lower them, even using more quantity than stated (3 drops every day Pro Bio S and NP Pro) As I said, before the change NO3 was 2-3 and PO4 0,02-0,03.
Do you then think it's worth continuing with this schedule for a while, or should I go back to my previous products and see what happens?
Again, thank you for your help and patience. Cheers

[Croff]

What about coral A, V, B, E? Should I stop dosing them with those nitrates? Or maybe the reason for my coral decline is starvation and I should increase dosage?
Thank you

[plyle02]

If you have pale corals, but have N&P, then you may want to re-check your tests, typically corals will get darker tissue when nutrients are higher, going pale usually indicates lack of nutrients(food) available for the corals. Is the tank new? Did it start with live or dead rock? How is the skimmer performing? Have you tested K? Thanks, just more details to further assist Cheers!

[Croff]

Corals are not pale, but some of them are disappearing, dying. I began using NOPOX again last week, but still dosing Pro Bio S and NP Pro, and nitrates are now lower, around 12. Tank is from October, never tested K, but tested nitrates with different brands. Also 2 weeks without using A,V, B,E, which I'm not sure is a good idea... Corals seem the same, some dying (acans and plate montipora) and others not thriving but neither dying. My biggest concern now is if I should began using A,V,B,E again or wait until nitrates/phosphates are lower

[plyle02]

How do the fish look? Are they healthy and vibrant? When feeding, have you considered direct feeding with frozen food to your lps? Have you considered doing a large water change to offset what ails the tank? Not there to see what is going on, but when in doubt, water changes always are your friend. Can you provide pics? The tank, sump, skimmer, whatever you can will help Cheers

[Croff]

Fish look healthy, no problems with them. I've been feeding frozen food to LPS once it twice weekly. Here are some pics, corals and sump... Not very good quality, I'm afraid...
Reefer 170, 2 MP-10, Deltec 1351, 1 liter Siporax

[Croff]

Acanthastrea on the second pic was growing like crazy 3 months ago, as was the seriatopora caliendrum (the green one, not the hystrix on the left, which has been in the tank for one month and seems to be OK)

[plyle02]

Everything seems fine, the skimmer looks to be pulling wet, see if you can adjust to not skim as hard, that is very much key to getting nutrients balanced on the Probiotic based system, otherwise if too wet, you may be skimming out all the things you are dosing. The siporax setup looks good, when that kicks in, you will be running very low, so make sure you are feeding well to the tank. All in all, the tank is beautiful, and has tons of potential. Nice job, the setup looks great!

[Croff]

Thank you, Perry

[Croff]

Hello again,
Nothing has changed in the last 4 weeks, the same nitrates and phosphates (16 and 0,3) measured with different brand tests; two drops Pro Bio S and NP Pro for 130 liters total water, plus Coral A, V, B, E; one liter of Siporax for the last 2 months and some new additions, Zeo Mix and Phosphate Minus added last week each inside a bag in the sump.
How long do you think will take for me to notice the reduction in nitrates and phosphates after adding them? I understand one week won't be enough, but still can't understand where those high levels came from and don't know what else to do...
As always, thank you in advance for your help

[Myka]

I can understand the NO3 and PO4 readings affecting the few SPS negatively, but the LPS should not have issue with the numbers you've reported at all. I'm not familiar with the Red Sea Reefers series, but your photos look to me like you are lighting with LEDs? If so, which LEDs are you using and what are the settings and length of photoperiod? Have you taken any PAR readings? Do you handfeed any of your LPS? Struggling LPS really get a boost from a couple thawed mysis shrimp every 2-3 days.

One last thing, have you watched the tank from a distance and checked that the Flame Angelfish is not picking at corals? Dwarf Angelfish you have about a 50/50 chance of them biting corals. I had one that was well behaved for about a year, and then he start to bite all my corals, but it was a 90-gallon tank chock full of SPS corals and he bit them all so the focus wasn't on just a few, and the corals could handle it they just didn't have very good polyp extension.