Better growth, clearer water without water changes

Maxi · 12/02/2016, 11:19 AM

I've been in this hobby for about ten years now, and I have always noticed that the more I leave the tank alone (other than top off, feeding, dosing) the better it does.

I've always been a constant water changer of 20% every week. But when I go traveling and someone else watched the tank for me (no feeding, nothing) I notice my tank is doing amazing.

I recently added a skimmer, and stopped doing water changes. I'm keeping calcium from 440-480, Alk from 8-9.6, and Magnesium 1500+

Magnesium is high due to my fight with bryopsis (winning).

So my question here is, are water changes not necessary as long as you are dosing? Are there not trace elements that need to be replenished that comes from our salt? I also dose amino acids once or twice a week. I haven't done a water change in a month.

If I can avoid water changes completely, and have better results, why should I do water changes? (assuming all detritus is being kicked up by flow). It just baffles me.

Justin330 · 12/02/2016, 12:20 PM

I'm noticing the same thing with my tank. Following this thread

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xitto · 12/02/2016, 12:51 PM

Same observations here. Anyone doing zero waterchanges, dosing MG-CA-ALK only for a long time?

dartier · 12/02/2016, 01:10 PM

You should probably look into the DyMiCo filters. They have a filter that runs with zero water changes. The part that would be of interest to you, is that they provide a list of elements that will become depleted over time and need to be supplemented. Their filter adds alkalinity and calcium, but the things it does not cover off was pretty short.

Here, I went and looked at their site. strontium, iodine, potassium and fluorine are expected to need to be supplemented.

If you are running a calcium reactor, or dosing Ca, Alk and Mg, I would expect the same elements would become depleted without water changes.

Dennis

75mixedreef · 12/02/2016, 01:48 PM

I did no water changes for about a year and was doing just fine. I didn't get the grown I wanted until I started dosing through the auto top off since I neglected it a bit. I even had my skimmer die on me and I started getting the good growth after that when I monitored my parameters better. I just ran an ATS and my tank seemed happy.

Justin330 · 12/02/2016, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 75mixedreef

I did no water changes for about a year and was doing just fine. I didn't get the grown I wanted until I started dosing through the auto top off since I neglected it a bit. I even had my skimmer die on me and I started getting the good growth after that when I monitored my parameters better. I just ran an ATS and my tank seemed happy.

Do you run miricle mud or anything like that? I ran it on my old 75 gallon and never had to do a water change. I was pretty new to the hobby back then

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75mixedreef · 12/02/2016, 02:23 PM

No mud, I did have a 4" deep sand bed, but I'm not sure that qualifies as a DSB. I just ran the ATS and probably fed less than I should have. More food probably would have been better all around since my ATS didn't seem like it grew that fast. Corals love food too, you just need to maintain the balance. I like my ATO additive, aragamight. It contains Ca, Alk, Mag, and trace elements. It works just like Kalkwasser except it doesn't change the PH and it doesn't contain as much Ca and Alk so I still have to dose that. I find the trace elements to be pretty self stabilizing because different organisms will use them differently and if one stands out then something with thrive on that.

mindi · 12/04/2016, 01:10 AM

Well I think that whenever I do even a 25% water change with NSW my tank seems to look better so I do it about every 4-6 weeks as it is free ....living 400M from the water. There is no science in my view, but I am open to the idea that trace elements we do not measure or otherwise replace , and which may be important, get replaced with water changes. I have no data to support that view but it seems reasonable to me and I change because I can. If I had to pay for RO and reef salt I might not I admit.

penkey49harley · 12/04/2016, 08:15 AM

Wow the DyMiCo filter looks wonderful.....except for the price. Ooof!

dartier · 12/04/2016, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by penkey49harley

Wow the DyMiCo filter looks wonderful.....except for the price. Ooof!

Yes, they are not inexpensive to say the least. I have a thread going documenting my attempt at a DIY version here (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=24847443). But even a DIY version will get a bit pricey considering that you need a lot of media as they are large filters.

Dennis

oseymour · 12/05/2016, 08:54 AM

My tank is at the point where I do water changes every 2 months.

I have an skimmer rated for a larger tank, not too large as I've found that a really oversize skimmer can be hard to tune.

I carbon dose 10ml a day of a vodka/vinegar mix. Dose 2 part and my nitrates stay around 5 ish.

I would say I have a heavily stocked 75 gallon tank that gets fed 2 or 3 times a day.

I would say the difference with this tank vs my last one is that from the first day I started carbon dosing (I eventually moved from biopellets to vinegar/vodka). So the corals and the system were stabilized around the current parameters.

I keep easier SPS and mostly softies and LPS. I really don't want to put in the work needed for a more SPS dominant tank. I like the balance that I have now.

blasterman789 · 12/05/2016, 08:16 PM

Water changes = mucked up alkalinity. Plus, salt mixes are all over the place in terms of default dKH levels. So, it's no wonder that water changes can inhibit SPS growth by torquing dKH around. In big tanks large volumes of water changes can introduce big doses of C02 as well.

djbon · 12/05/2016, 11:20 PM

Have been running for 3 years without WC. All is fine, i don't even have a refugium, only a 10g sump for a 75g display. I let my tank runs its nutrient cycle naturally. Other than top off, i dose 3 big components and weekly amino, iodine, flourine and iron dosing. Occasionally i dose nitrate and potassium if one of my zoa refuse to open up.

12/02/2016, 11:19 AM	#1
Maxi Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 1,381	Better growth, clearer water without water changes I've been in this hobby for about ten years now, and I have always noticed that the more I leave the tank alone (other than top off, feeding, dosing) the better it does. I've always been a constant water changer of 20% every week. But when I go traveling and someone else watched the tank for me (no feeding, nothing) I notice my tank is doing amazing. I recently added a skimmer, and stopped doing water changes. I'm keeping calcium from 440-480, Alk from 8-9.6, and Magnesium 1500+ Magnesium is high due to my fight with bryopsis (winning). So my question here is, are water changes not necessary as long as you are dosing? Are there not trace elements that need to be replenished that comes from our salt? I also dose amino acids once or twice a week. I haven't done a water change in a month. If I can avoid water changes completely, and have better results, why should I do water changes? (assuming all detritus is being kicked up by flow). It just baffles me.

12/02/2016, 01:10 PM	#4
dartier Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Brampton, ON, Canada Posts: 958	You should probably look into the DyMiCo filters. They have a filter that runs with zero water changes. The part that would be of interest to you, is that they provide a list of elements that will become depleted over time and need to be supplemented. Their filter adds alkalinity and calcium, but the things it does not cover off was pretty short. Here, I went and looked at their site. strontium, iodine, potassium and fluorine are expected to need to be supplemented. If you are running a calcium reactor, or dosing Ca, Alk and Mg, I would expect the same elements would become depleted without water changes. Dennis __________________ 560G Miracles tank in process making a DIY DyMiCo style filter (for 560G) Current Tank Info: 560G Miracles tank in progress, 80Frag Temporary

12/04/2016, 01:10 AM	#8
mindi Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Mornington Victoria Australia Posts: 396	Well I think that whenever I do even a 25% water change with NSW my tank seems to look better so I do it about every 4-6 weeks as it is free ....living 400M from the water. There is no science in my view, but I am open to the idea that trace elements we do not measure or otherwise replace , and which may be important, get replaced with water changes. I have no data to support that view but it seems reasonable to me and I change because I can. If I had to pay for RO and reef salt I might not I admit. __________________ Duncans,Briarerum,Sarcphytons,Red Lobo, Elegance,Pectinia,Scolymia,Ctenactis,Barrier Reef Clowns,Blue,Yellow,and Gold Shouldered Tangs,Coral Beauty,Banggai,Coris, Leopard and Striped Wrasse Current Tank Info: Cade PR1500 with Seachem Kona Coast and Sanrise 120 LED

12/05/2016, 08:54 AM	#11
oseymour Euphyllia Addict Join Date: May 2012 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 1,424	My tank is at the point where I do water changes every 2 months. I have an skimmer rated for a larger tank, not too large as I've found that a really oversize skimmer can be hard to tune. I carbon dose 10ml a day of a vodka/vinegar mix. Dose 2 part and my nitrates stay around 5 ish. I would say I have a heavily stocked 75 gallon tank that gets fed 2 or 3 times a day. I would say the difference with this tank vs my last one is that from the first day I started carbon dosing (I eventually moved from biopellets to vinegar/vodka). So the corals and the system were stabilized around the current parameters. I keep easier SPS and mostly softies and LPS. I really don't want to put in the work needed for a more SPS dominant tank. I like the balance that I have now. __________________ Just started Red Sea Reefer 350 (75 Gallon) Build Thread - http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2555495 Current Tank Info: Red Sea Reefer 350

12/05/2016, 11:20 PM	#13
djbon Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Kota Kinabalu, Sabah, MY Posts: 813	Have been running for 3 years without WC. All is fine, i don't even have a refugium, only a 10g sump for a 75g display. I let my tank runs its nutrient cycle naturally. Other than top off, i dose 3 big components and weekly amino, iodine, flourine and iron dosing. Occasionally i dose nitrate and potassium if one of my zoa refuse to open up. __________________ 75 gallon DT, 5 gallon sump, DIY LED bar with moonlight, DIY Arduino controller Current Tank Info: 75 gallon/Arduino Controller

12/02/2016, 12:20 PM	#2
Justin330 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 51	I'm noticing the same thing with my tank. Following this thread Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

12/02/2016, 12:51 PM	#3
xitto Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 30	Same observations here. Anyone doing zero waterchanges, dosing MG-CA-ALK only for a long time?

12/02/2016, 01:48 PM	#5
75mixedreef Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 255	I did no water changes for about a year and was doing just fine. I didn't get the grown I wanted until I started dosing through the auto top off since I neglected it a bit. I even had my skimmer die on me and I started getting the good growth after that when I monitored my parameters better. I just ran an ATS and my tank seemed happy.

12/02/2016, 02:23 PM	#7
75mixedreef Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 255	No mud, I did have a 4" deep sand bed, but I'm not sure that qualifies as a DSB. I just ran the ATS and probably fed less than I should have. More food probably would have been better all around since my ATS didn't seem like it grew that fast. Corals love food too, you just need to maintain the balance. I like my ATO additive, aragamight. It contains Ca, Alk, Mag, and trace elements. It works just like Kalkwasser except it doesn't change the PH and it doesn't contain as much Ca and Alk so I still have to dose that. I find the trace elements to be pretty self stabilizing because different organisms will use them differently and if one stands out then something with thrive on that.

12/04/2016, 08:15 AM	#9
penkey49harley Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2016 Posts: 56	Wow the DyMiCo filter looks wonderful.....except for the price. Ooof!

12/05/2016, 08:16 PM	#12
blasterman789 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 365	Water changes = mucked up alkalinity. Plus, salt mixes are all over the place in terms of default dKH levels. So, it's no wonder that water changes can inhibit SPS growth by torquing dKH around. In big tanks large volumes of water changes can introduce big doses of C02 as well.