Reef/seahorse

[AdamSabina]

My last seahorse tank was 25gallons and had one banded pipefish and one H cf. Kuda.

This one is very different. 42"L x 30"W x 30"H the new I'm planning I want some fish too! Ideas are


Banded Pipefish
Doryrhamphus dactylophorus
Pipefish
Added: April 22, 2014

Catalina Goby
Lythrypnus dalli
Gobies
Added: April 22, 2014

Court Jester Goby
Amblygobius rainfordi
Gobies
Added: April 22, 2014

Green Mandarin
Synchiropus splendidus
Dragonets
Added: April 22, 2014

Jawfish, Yellowhead
Opistognathus aurifrons
Jawfish
Added: April 22, 2014

Kuda Seahorse
Hippocampus kuda
Seahorse
Added: April 22, 2014
Quantity: 2

I've only every kept H. Cf Kuda. Any suggestions?

[rayjay]

That's a lot of fish to add to a new tank all at once. I hope it has a strong enough biological system to handle it all.
It is a lot more difficult keeping seahorses with other fish than keeping them in a species only tank.
Reef tanks normally run at temperatures that can allow nasty bacteria to grow to a point that seahorses are negatively affected.
Seahorses often don't survive being exposed to pathogens introduced to them by other fish.
You mention this as a reef/seahorse tank but you don't list the "reef" contents.
Stinging corals and anemones are definitely a no-no.
You'll have to watch and be sure the seahorses are able to compete for sufficient food for themselves.
I just reread your post and you said this was in the planning, but after each fish you say they were added on April 22nd.

[AdamSabina]

Originally Posted by rayjay

That's a lot of fish to add to a new tank all at once. I hope it has a strong enough biological system to handle it all.

It's going to be 42" x 30" x 30" with a remote deep sand bed fuge 160 lbs of live rock so should be way more than enough.


It is a lot more difficult keeping seahorses with other fish than keeping them in a species only tank.
-absolutely agree. I have done it before, but with mixed results. The pipefish and rainfords goby were great. Firefish was a huge mistake-


Reef tanks normally run at temperatures that can allow nasty bacteria to grow to a point that seahorses are negatively affected.
-much like the pipefish and Catalina goby and pipefish. The system will have 1/10hp chill, open top and cooling fans. Planning to run at 75-76 degree. Alarms at 78-

Seahorses often don't survive being exposed to pathogens introduced to them by other fish.
-I do quarantine, prophylactic treat, acclimate and teach to eat frozen before I and fish to any system. Not saying it perfect because nothing is but so far good.-


You mention this as a reef/seahorse tank but you don't list the "reef" contents. Stinging corals and anemones are definitely a no-no.
-absolutely; zoathids, montipora, and gorgonians are my favorites :-). -

You'll have to watch and be sure the seahorses are able to compete for sufficient food for themselves.
-which is the reason for the inquire. I only have experience with some of these species. So I'm hoping someone has mixed two or more of these species for more feedback-

I just reread your post and you said this was in the planning, but after each fish you say they were added on April 22nd.
-I use aqua planner so every thing can be planned and budgeted. It doesn't have a "plan to add". It only has add to aquarium button :-) kinda works.-

[AdamSabina]

Originally Posted by rayjay

That's a lot of fish to add to a new tank all at once. I hope it has a strong enough biological system to handle it all. It is a lot more difficult keeping seahorses with other fish than keeping them in a species only tank. Reef tanks normally run at temperatures that can allow nasty bacteria to grow to a point that seahorses are negatively affected. Seahorses often don't survive being exposed to pathogens introduced to them by other fish. You mention this as a reef/seahorse tank but you don't list the "reef" contents. Stinging corals and anemones are definitely a no-no. You'll have to watch and be sure the seahorses are able to compete for sufficient food for themselves. I just reread your post and you said this was in the planning, but after each fish you say they were added on April 22nd.

What pathogens should I be worried about? Is it bacterial or normal fish stuff like ich and flukes?

[rayjay]

Originally Posted by AdamSabina

It's going to be 42" x 30" x 30" with a remote deep sand bed fuge 160 lbs of live rock so should be way more than enough.

As long as you have sufficient ammonia to produce a large biofilter for starting off with a large fish input all at once, just add a couple at a time until the biofilter ramps up after each addition.

I have done it before, but with mixed results. The pipefish and rainfords goby were great. Firefish was a huge mistake-

ANY fish can add pathogens to the system that the seahorse hasn't grown up with. Pipefish especially have been a problem because they are almost totally wild caught while todays seahorses are often true captive bred with little previous exposure to pathogens of the ocean.
Quarantine doesn't eliminate this. Quarantine of a fish only determines if the pathogens it carries are a problem to the carrying fish at the time it is in quarantine. The pathogens are still there and can get to the seahorses and end up being a problem. The pathogens can also cause problems to the introduced fish if it's immune system becomes compromised by any kind of stress.

-much like the pipefish and Catalina goby and pipefish. The system will have 1/10hp chill, open top and cooling fans. Planning to run at 75-76 degree. Alarms at 78-

I personally haven't had any success operating long term above 75° in my eleven years of seahorse keeping, as many other hobbyists have experienced.
Admittedly, some do succeed and it may be a combination of extremely intense filtration systems, above average husbandry practices, and, the susceptibility of the seahorses to any encountered problems.

-I do quarantine, prophylactic treat, acclimate and teach to eat frozen before I and fish to any system. Not saying it perfect because nothing is but so far good.-

Most seahorses sold today in North America are already trained to eat frozen, be they preferred true captive bred or the riskier, cheaper, tank raised ones.
There are so many pathogens that may be carried that you would need maybe a dispensary and a lot of time to be able to effectively eliminate the chances to any degree at all.

-absolutely; zoathids, montipora, and gorgonians are my favorites

Some acceptable to seahorse corals do not survive long term in the cooler seahorse tanks, and, many sps corals do not survive the "dirty" water that is produced by the messy eating habits of seahorses. (selectively eating food pieces, leaving a lot of waste to be trapped out of sight, and, the mastication of food upon snicking it, passing minute particulate matter out through the gills and into the water column)

I only have experience with some of these species. So I'm hoping someone has mixed two or more of these species for more feedback-

The Tankmates Guide can be of some help to you.
You may have to sign up at the org and wait sometimes a couple of days for acceptance to be able to read and participate there.

-I use aqua planner so every thing can be planned and budgeted. It doesn't have a "plan to add". It only has add to aquarium button :-) kinda works.-

I'd suggest not getting too close to a limit as seahorses are known to have problems requiring meds that can be costly. Also wise to have a 10g hospital tank with aeration available to set up on very short notice.
Check out what meds most try to keep on hand as time is often of the essence in success here. Also, at least one med requires a prescription and a lot of people have trouble finding a way to obtain this Diamox.
Some ailments may require gut loading the meds into live food which again increases costs of treatment.
I have a page with links at the bottom, written by experience keepers and by perhaps the best known, most helpful breeder in North America, that can give you more insight into seahorse general needs.
Go to the bottom of the page at "My Thoughts on Seahorse Keeping".

[rayjay]

Originally Posted by AdamSabina

What pathogens should I be worried about? Is it bacterial or normal fish stuff like ich and flukes?

Both. However, pathogen levels that may be acceptable to most reef fish are often NOT acceptable to seahorses. There are a lot of parasites beyond ich and flukes that could come into play.
The bacterial problems like the nasty vibrio species are not something that quarantine helps with as they are always present. (air, water) We just have to control the population growth by controlling food availability and temperatures that can be more conducive to reproduction.

[AdamSabina]

Originally Posted by rayjay

Both. However, pathogen levels that may be acceptable to most reef fish are often NOT acceptable to seahorses. There are a lot of parasites beyond ich and flukes that could come into play. The bacterial problems like the nasty vibrio species are not something that quarantine helps with as they are always present. (air, water) We just have to control the population growth by controlling food availability and temperatures that can be more conducive to reproduction.

Thank you Ray. I appreciate the advise.

Changing the ideas. I'm going to bring my reef tank from the office home and set up a completely separate nano/pico for 1 seahorse for the wife. My old H cf Kuda loved macro algae to hold onto and I had a photosynthetic golden rod gorgonian that he also liked. I had kept them at 76 degree. He only lived for two years before I added the firefish which was a mistake. How long should they live?

Questions are. 20 tank (already have reef ready spare). Run at 74 degree (with chiller and heater. Is that enought for 1? Maybe 2?

Any issues with macro algae?

Any issues with mushrooms, gorgonians, or zoas? I know the coral my hate the cold water (zoas and mushrooms are pretty tough in my experience) but I can move then to the larger reef if need be.

[rayjay]

A general average lifespan would be 5 to 8 years and occasionally more.
(Dwarfs would be 1 1/2 ti 2 yrs, sometimes longer)
A twenty would be sufficient for one but not two. (min recommended size is 29g for one pair and an additional 15g for each additional pair.
However, seahorses do better when they are the only seahorse in the tank. Some people use mirrors around the tank but I don't really know how successful that has been.
As a precaution it's safer to give macro's a dip to remove anything hitching before placing in a seahorse tank.
I used formalin but I've been advised that this can kill a lot of macro species.
(also formalin is no longer available to many, including me here in Canada)
Many people have used gorgonians in their tanks, and zoas as mushrooms as well.
For me, the zoas and mushrooms took over the tank like weeds so I eradicated them with hypodermic needles and hydrochloric acid. Fortunately I had only placed them in one tank.

Hopefully others are going to chime in here as my thoughts are based on my own experiences and what I trust of others postings. There are other thoughts and successes out there that should be considered before you actually buy for your set up.

[kudagirl]

Rayjay,

If you can't get formalin in Canada can you not get some from e-bay or is that not allowed.

[rayjay]

All sources are out of country and when shipped here, get confiscated.
There are ways to get some if you know the right person but it's illegal so it wouldn't (or at least shouldn't) be posted on a forum.