Any progress on Cuttlefish in the USA?

[schmunkel98]

I gave up on getting cuttlefish a while back, and I was wondering if anyone has made any progress since then? I ended up making my main 135 gallon tank into a FOWLR setup with fuzzy lionfish, a snowflake eel, and a harlequin tusk. This setup makes for lots of activity, but I would still like to do the cuttlefish thing in the future. I may even make an octo tank in the meantime.

[johnrags1234]

I would love to hear about this too.

Heres what I know:

You can get sepia O from europe for around ~$500us. This is not per animal. This is for a group of them, and shipping.

sepia bandesis (spelling?) gets imported from time to time. This species is near impossible to keep, even by experts. This is ussulaly attributed to cyanide, and stress.

[wrasseman1]

I just bought a cuttlefish from the LFS that I work at. I am not sure what species it is but I do know it is from the indo-pacific region. We got it on a trans shippment wholesalers rarely have them on price list (I have only seen them once in a year and a half). So see if your LFS can possibly do a trans shippment.

[johnrags1234]

wrasseman1
There is a very good chance that this is a bandesis. Can you post pics? Is it eating prepared foods (not live)? I hope it does well, as they are Extremely difficult to care for.

Good luck!

J

[wrasseman1]

I just bought a cuttlefish from the LFS that I work at. I am not sure what species it is but I do know it is from the indo-pacific region. We got it on a trans shippment wholesalers rarely have them on price list (I have only seen them once in a year and a half). So see if your LFS can possibly do a trans shippment.

[schmunkel98]

I've tried for over a year to get some cuttlefish in my tank. I had moderate success with an importer here in Dallas that was able to get me Sepia Bandensis. They never lived past a few weeks, never came out during the day, and were not cheap. I tried to split an order from Richard Stride in England, but the only way to do that was to get with someone else from Texas or order eggs only so that they could survive a multiple shipment delivery. Richard is basically the only way to go, but you now have a ton of permits to get in order to get them here. Those alone total about $200 from what I last looked at. The thing that makes me the most upset is that the NRCC is in my own state, and I can't order from the most reliable and best priced source for cuttlefish in the nation because I'm not a scientist or a professor.

[johnrags1234]

Those alone total about $200 from what I last looked at.

you mean the permits total ~$200? Last time you checked, what was the total going to come out to?

[schmunkel98]

Yes, the import permits alone were around $200. You are basically setting yourself up just like a store would to import live animals.

[cephalopoder]

Hey Mike, long time no see. The cuttlefish scene is the same, sepia, bandensis. Really not woth the attempt as you and I both know. Ordering from richard is the way to go. The only problem ios finding homes for all the ones you must import to make it worth while.
You should try a peacock mantis for something extremly cool. I have had mine for about a year now and I just love this animal! Oops this is the ceph forum lol.

[OctoMonkey]

hi again Mike

give me six months or so! Im setting up my own LFS over here and doing that sort of stuff is way high up on my priority list!!!

Obviously will let you know when i get started

hope all is well

Colin

[schmunkel98]

Hey Chris and Colin,

I've been in lurk mode since I got my FOWLR setup up and going. I would sell all the animals in there to the pet store in a heartbeat if I could get some quality sepia o.'s for a good price. I'll keep checking around and hopefully something will come up.

[johnrags1234]

I am POSSIBLY thinking about doing sepia o. sometime. My family and I might go to Europe, so it would make sense to pick up some specimens while there. If not, doing an order pool would be a good idea If a group of people were to import, say eggs so they COULD make the mult leg trip, how difficult is it to rear them? I have been doing a whole lot of research on this. Dr wood (whom I e-mailed with) says that they are some of the easier ceph's, and much easier than clownfish, but any other info highly appreciated!

[wrasseman1]

I think I have identified my cuttle as Sepia aculeata. It was priced at $8.00 at the pet store I work at. If any body knows of any good sites for I.D. of these little guys please let me know.

[investigator1]

They sell them all the time at lfs in Escondido , CA.

[OctoMonkey]

Hi wrasseman

You'll know quite easily if its aculeata or not....

the needle cuttlefish has three circular markings on its body of which teh rear one is made up of white spots.. gets to about 10" mantle length. Its found from India to PNG.

John,

Not wanting to disagree with JBW but Sepia o are very demanding in the home aquarium. I wouldnt advise keeping them in anything less than about 200gals and even that is on the small side. They can get to at least 10" long in captivity and can suffer damage to their rear end if they get a fright as they swim backwards into the glass.... circular tanks would be better.

Also because of the amount of waste they produce, keeping any more than one requires a top-class filter and skimmer... I ended up with getting an AquaMedic 5000 to keep up with them.

Colin

[johnrags1234]

Wrasseman1
Can we get some pics of your newest ceph? Also what size tank is it in? Here is the only pic I found... on the best ceph id site around

http://www.cephbase.dal.ca/imgdb/img...s=&LowestTaxa=

[cephalopoder]

wrasseman
If you have Sepia. aculeata you have a rare find.
All of the cuttles I have seen come into the USA in the last year or so have been sepia. bandensis.
Like colin said. S.aculeata has 3 rings on its mantle, the rear one being a ring of white spots.
If you have bandensis it will have small blue spots running along the fin bases. They can be seen very clearly. They also uses a pair of its arms to walk along the bottom. This is very easy to see when its resting on the bottom.
Way cool though if you scored a aculeata! Its hard to believe you got any cuttle for 8 bucks thats a deal and a half. I got my bandensis right from the wholesaler and paid 20 bucks each. I have also seen the same species selling for 200.00! Good luck. Post some pics!
-chris

[OctoMonkey]

Yeah, and was there not Metasepia for a stupid amount too???

Chris, im actually importing my own octopuses this week, sent the fax away today and I'll get them Tuesday coming.... they are on the list as vulgaris but we both know how that works LOLOL

I'll let you know how i get on with them.

C

[schmunkel98]

Guys, I e-mailed Anchofsh out in California about cuttlefish, and here is what they said:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Mike,
We have no luck with cuttlefish.
They have small chance to survive shipping, we have 99% DOA when arrive here
in Los Angeles (the origin coutry is Bali).
We don't know how to prevent them from releasing the ink in the bag while
shipping which killed themselves.
If you could advise us how?

Thanks.

Sincerely,
Lawrence

dive@anchofish.com

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Can anyone e-mail them back and tell them how to ship these guys better for me? They look like they are interested in trying to get these guys alive, and they may be able to supply the US need if we can solve this problem.

Mike

[cephalopoder]

Mike
The NRCC uses Magnesium Chloride to prevent inking in transit. They disolve 75 grams of MgCl2 in 1 liter of distilled water. They then mix the stock solution with sea water. For shipping cuttles over 3" they use a 10% (1/10) solution. For hatchlings and cuttles under 3" they cut back a little. They have also used trisma 8.2 buffer to control PH during shipment.
Anchofish dosen't sell cuttlefish.. They sell cattlefish. Its hard to ship fish the size of cows though the mail so maybe thats why they keep inking lol

[johnrags1234]

I emailed ancho fish. I got the same reply. Cephalopoder, would you mind if I emailed this part of ypur post to them?

The NRCC uses Magnesium Chloride to prevent inking in transit. They disolve 75 grams of MgCl2 in 1 liter of distilled water. They then mix the stock solution with sea water. For shipping cuttles over 3" they use a 10% (1/10) solution. For hatchlings and cuttles under 3" they cut back a little. They have also used trisma 8.2 buffer to control PH during shipment

When we emailed back and forth they asked if I knew of any better ways to ship. I told them some people 'scare' cephs so they ink before they get shipped. I also told them it probably wasnt a good idea because it caused further stress for the cuttles.

[OctoMonkey]

LOLLOLOLOLOL

dont scare them!!!!!!!

I went through about 10 - 12 buckets of water approx 1 gal per go trying to get one bloody 6inch male cuttle into a bag for transporting... it just keeps on coming!!!! I found that by not taking them out of the water helped a lot.. eg guid them into their bag using a net and dont lift them clear of the water

Richard Stride also bags and sends his cuttles under MgCl2

Whats the ideal habitat for a cattlefish Chris? Think a 180gal would fit one comfortably? LOL i have plenty grass in my garden will that do?

C

[cephalopoder]

Johnrags
Sure you can send the info, but I don't think it will do any good. Importers that ship hundreds of different species will not take the time to cater to one species. Its not worh the death rate this species encounters.
The main problem with cuttles from bali and that part of the world is cyanide use during collection. I have delt directly with CA importes of these animals and 0ver 90% die on arrival. Like Colin said, scarering cuttles will not work! That will only stress them out more and they hold tons of ink!
Colin the cattlefish Sepia.angus needs lots a sea grass to graze on. A 1000gallon tank is too small for this species

[johnrags1234]

-Colin the cattlefish Sepia.angus needs lots a sea grass to graze on. A 1000gallon tank is too small for this species- LOL

What species would normally come through Bali though? Wouldnt it be sepia bandesis, which is already a terrible choice for aquariums? It isnt realy worth it for them to carry sepia bandensis if they are so unhardy.

I didnt realy think scaring them was wise either, so I told them it isnt a good idea. I just wanted them to know that I had heard of this before.

With an animal that can change colors, ink, use jet propulsion, and morph textures, it probably isnt too easy to catch them with a net. This is unforunate though as these guys might be a lot hardier if they were net caught.

jgr

P.S Cephalopoder- seeing your sig line, have you read The Search for the Giant Squid by Ellis? It is an awesome book!

[OctoMonkey]

John

I think that the worse thing about importing s bandensis aside from them being fragile is that the fact that they also seem to be fully grown adults, bandensis is quite a small cuttle with perhaps only weeks to live regardless of how they were caught... so even mother nature is against us on that one.

I see S bandensis on livestock lists from bali almost monthly but have never once got them because of the trouble i know will come with them, plus i feel it is certainly quite cruel as many of them will be adults ready to breed.

In an aquarium S o. gets very tame quickly and is easy to catch, i used to hand feed mine and theyd swim into my open hand etc... but your right, i guess a wild one would be tricky to find and catch... My Sepia related project this year is going to be either Rossia macrosoma or Sepiola atlantica which ever i find first... hopefully they are another candidate for aquarium keeping...

Also John, if you visit Tonmo.com the science moderator is Dr Steve O'Shea who is still activly hunting the giant squid and is presently dissecting many mature speciems given to him that have been caught in fishing nets etc, he often provides many interesting updates!

C