Livestock Suggestions for a 20g Long

apolloreef · 07/26/2013, 02:31 PM

Hey everyone,

I am looking for some suggestions from experienced hobbyists about filling a 20g long nano tank (with an Aquaclear 70 turned refug and 2 koralia pumps working over about 20 lbs of live rock). The tank is starting as a FOWLR, but will likely include some easy to care for corals later down the road. I'm willing to put some extra work in to keep a slightly more stocked tank. I value personality, filling each niche, as well as a variety of color/types of fish. As of now there aren't any must haves, but I think my fiance wants to see a clown (or pair) and I would really like to include a goby + shrimp pair. I can't afford any $100 fish, but I will definitely explore any non budget breaking options.

Odd couples and species that like to interact (in positive) ways are a plus! I can only have one tank (building rules) so I am definitely looking to impress/entertain myself with limited space.

nlgill13 · 07/26/2013, 02:51 PM

clown/s
royal gramma
firefish

this might help
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/a...plies.cfm?c=15

lurch71 · 07/26/2013, 03:12 PM

I would suggest a diamond goby I have one and love how it keeps the sand clean. And it fun to watch them filter the sand

Bshanks4321 · 07/26/2013, 03:58 PM

Clown, Orchid Dottyback, Royal Gramma, Any Goby and most blennies.

hossa81 · 07/26/2013, 05:12 PM

Cardinals do well. I have one in my twenty long. I would also say a pair of clown would fit.

apolloreef · 07/26/2013, 05:27 PM

Thanks for the tips. I have been using live aquaria.

About the dottybacks. It says they can be semi-aggressive, do you think that will be a problem with small gobies or clowns who can also be territorial? And will it eat peppermint shrimp or other cleaning crew members (mentions ornamental shrimp, but those might be sexy shrimp?). How comparable are the dottybacks to a Royal Gramma, they look similar but how do they behave/eat?

I've seen some posts that say multiple blennies do not work (even if they are different species?). Gobies are quite peaceful correct?

apolloreef · 07/26/2013, 05:29 PM

In addition could you mention why you recommend a certain species or group please. It will help me decide because the smaller tank limits the number.

Spork3245 · 07/26/2013, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lurch71

I would suggest a diamond goby I have one and love how it keeps the sand clean. And it fun to watch them filter the sand

I love my Diamond Goby but I would go with a smaller sand-sifting species for a 20 gallon long tank. They can get 6-8" as an adult. I have one in a 90 gallon and he swims around and sifts every corner of it.
Maybe an Orange Spot or Yellow Watchman Goby? They generally stay 3-4" max

St1ckyReefer · 07/26/2013, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apolloreef

Thanks for the tips. I have been using live aquaria.

About the dottybacks. It says they can be semi-aggressive, do you think that will be a problem with small gobies or clowns who can also be territorial? And will it eat peppermint shrimp or other cleaning crew members (mentions ornamental shrimp, but those might be sexy shrimp?). How comparable are the dottybacks to a Royal Gramma, they look similar but how do they behave/eat?

I've seen some posts that say multiple blennies do not work (even if they are different species?). Gobies are quite peaceful correct?

You don't want to keep more than one fish that will hang around the bottom, thats why most blennys or gobies are not recommended together

As far as dottybacks go, personally i have nicknamned mine the A-hole fish =] He tore after my purple firefish and darn near killed him before i could get him separated and put on permanent time out in a 10g. However, they are only aggressive towards similar looking fish, and im almost 100% sure they would be good with clowns, but personally i think you would like a firefish more anyway

For max variety, i would go with a black ocelaris clown, an orange ocelaris clown (they will pair up), and either a firefish (i prefer the purple one), or rainford goby

I really don't think the shrimp gobys are worth having the bond with the shrimp, they are just to bland for me when options are so limited

If you went for over rated filtration and wanted to push it you could add another small fish into that mix without much of a problem. I would also go with a few nassarius snails and dwarf cerifs for cuc. Personally i am sick of crabs knocking stuff over and that'l be worse in a smaller space. Oh and nothing mentioned here or above will bother any shrimp. Camels are nicer looking than the peppermints IMO

apolloreef · 07/26/2013, 09:12 PM

Thank you for the input.

What about the clown/citron gobies? I have heard that they are personable and really stay out of others business.

St1ckyReefer · 07/27/2013, 05:07 PM

I love them, im not sure why but the only one i ever saw refused to eat and eventually starved, but i don't know if thats a common occurrence or not

hossa81 · 07/27/2013, 05:10 PM

I had a sunrise dottyback, mean fish. It would bite the fins off of my cardinal, got rid of him and the cardinal's fins grew back over time.

dkeller_nc · 07/27/2013, 05:52 PM

If I were you, and given the size of your tank, I would ditch the clownfish idea. Clownfish can grow quite large (at least relative to a 20 gallon tank), and they are potentially quite territorial, particularly if the are a mated pair that are breeding.

I also would ditch the idea of any semi-nasty territorial fish, like dottybacks, any and all damselfish, and the smaller dwarf angels (even though your tank is big enough for a cherub or potentially a flame). Since you can only have one tank, if one of the fish turns out to be nasty to tankmates, you're stuck. You'll either wind up with one fish in the tank (the nasty one), have to find someone to give it away to, or humanely dispatch it in the freezer.

Instead, consider the idea of a very low aggression community. The yellow clown gobies are very peaceable and very interesting. Barnacle blennies are hilarious, and also communal so you could keep several in your tank. For algae control, a lawnmower blenny is a nice asset and is generally very peaceful, though you may have to supplement its food with Nori after it annihilates the algae in the tank. Low-aggression cardinal fish like the threadfin cardinal or the red-spot cardinal are possibilities, and with these specific cardinal fish species, you could keep 2 or 3. Avoid the other cardinalfish species - they can be nasty to tankmates. The smaller firefish species are great for smaller tanks so long as there's a tight-fitting cover and they aren't bullied by boisterious tankmates.

A couple of other possibilities would be dragon-faced or striped pipefish so long as you don't also include rapid swimmers like a six-line wrasse, but be aware that you must provide small crustacean food for them (like Cyclops and the occasional feeding of newly hatched brine shrimp).

If you want to include a wrasse, a six-line has a very good reputation about not harassing tank mates in smaller tanks and they remain small. Some of the basslets would be good choices for a low-aggression tank as well, such as the chalk bass or the black cap basslet. The ultimate basslet for a small tank is a royal gramma, but it is sometimes difficult to obtain a healthy specimen.

The possum wrasses (tanaka's , yellow-banded and white banded possum wrasse) would also be good choices.

You could consider a couple of dwarf seahorses, but if so, they need to be the only fish in the tank because it will be impossible to feed them if they are kept with faster-swimming tankmates.

But there may be one aspect of this that you might not have considered - you must quarantine these fish and be prepared to treat them to ensure that they are healthy. That necessitates setting up a second tank, even if it's just temporary. All it will take is introducing ich, amyloodinium, or brooklynella to the tank and the "$100 limit" will be exceeded in a couple of days.

apolloreef · 07/27/2013, 07:17 PM

Thanks for the suggestions. I found out that I can go up to 29g so I will be adding the extra volume. I think my fiance really wants to see a clown, but maybe I will skip the pair if it will curb some issues.

So new plan is:

Water Column Fish:
Small fairy or flasher wrasse
Clownfish (ocellaris)
Royal Gramma

Bottom/Sandbed:
Clown or citron goby
Tailspot or bicolor blenny
Possibly and shrimp goby and shrimp pair

(maybe switch in a firefish)

dkeller_nc · 07/27/2013, 07:38 PM

You may have some difficulties feeding the royal gramma and the shrimp goby because of competition from the wrasse and the clownfish, but otherwise, this will probably work.

Keep in mind that this is a relatively high fish load for a 29 gallon tank (though not hugely excessive), and because of the feeding competition, you will need to offer a lot of food several times a day.

For that reason, you will need an effective skimmer (a Red Sea prism won't cut it!) and perform fairly frequent water changes. Running activated carbon or Purigen (but not both - they do the same job) will help as well.

Don't ignore the quarantine requirement - even from reputable suppliers, ich and/or brookynella is possibility and once you introduce it into the display tank, your only option is to remove every fish and allow it to run fishless for about 2 months.

Arnel0387 · 07/27/2013, 09:04 PM

TAILSPOT BLENNY! Aweeeeesome personality

(I love midas blenny also but they may get aggressive in a small tank)

If I were you, I'd get a 40 breeder tank (3ft tank) as a started tank. Or a 60 gallon (4ft tank). Or go big or go home and get yourself a 6ft tank to house a small tang!

apolloreef · 07/27/2013, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arnel0387

TAILSPOT BLENNY! Aweeeeesome personality

(I love midas blenny also but they may get aggressive in a small tank)

If I were you, I'd get a 40 breeder tank (3ft tank) as a started tank. Or a 60 gallon (4ft tank). Or go big or go home and get yourself a 6ft tank to house a small tang!

I would love to but I am I s highly regulated renting market where tanks usually have to be 20 or 30 gallons or less.

Nina51 · 07/28/2013, 06:52 AM

i have a 29g cube with 2 clowns, 1 firefish, 1 dottyback, 1 orange spotted goby, 1 cherub angel, a couple of emerald crabs and several corals. all of my fish are small and i have never had a problem with aggression. not to say i won't at some point but they have all lived together for months with no problems. there was a bit of domestic violence between the clowns recently but that has settled down.

i also have a 14g cube with 2 clowns and 1 royal gramma. this, too, is a peaceful tank with no problems.

some would say my 29g is overstocked but i've had no problems. regular water changes and testing params will offer success. i test every few days and do weekly water changes. easy peasy in such small tanks.

dkeller_nc · 07/28/2013, 07:23 AM

Hopefully it works out for you (the clowns and the cherub would be the most worrisome), but the main reason I advise against more than one clown in a small tank is what happens down the road when the clownfish reach sexual maturity, the dominant one changes to a female, and the pair begin to breed. That's when all heck breaks loose, juvenile clowns can be kept in fairly large groups in smallish tanks when they're young.

Similarly, dwarf angels tend to get more aggressive as they mature. But that's not an automatic - dwarf angels are highly variable from individual to individual. Some will bully the other fish in a small tank to death (literally), some individuals of the same species will be perfectly nice to their tankmates; some will pester a tridacnid clam to death, some will never touch it, etc....

07/26/2013, 02:31 PM	#1
apolloreef Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 96	Livestock Suggestions for a 20g Long Hey everyone, I am looking for some suggestions from experienced hobbyists about filling a 20g long nano tank (with an Aquaclear 70 turned refug and 2 koralia pumps working over about 20 lbs of live rock). The tank is starting as a FOWLR, but will likely include some easy to care for corals later down the road. I'm willing to put some extra work in to keep a slightly more stocked tank. I value personality, filling each niche, as well as a variety of color/types of fish. As of now there aren't any must haves, but I think my fiance wants to see a clown (or pair) and I would really like to include a goby + shrimp pair. I can't afford any $100 fish, but I will definitely explore any non budget breaking options. Odd couples and species that like to interact (in positive) ways are a plus! I can only have one tank (building rules) so I am definitely looking to impress/entertain myself with limited space.

07/26/2013, 05:12 PM	#5
hossa81 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Geneva,IL Posts: 900	Cardinals do well. I have one in my twenty long. I would also say a pair of clown would fit. __________________ Enjoy life, there's plenty of time to be dead. Current Tank Info: 180 FOWLR, 29 BioCube

07/27/2013, 05:10 PM	#12
hossa81 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Geneva,IL Posts: 900	I had a sunrise dottyback, mean fish. It would bite the fins off of my cardinal, got rid of him and the cardinal's fins grew back over time. __________________ Enjoy life, there's plenty of time to be dead. Current Tank Info: 180 FOWLR, 29 BioCube

07/27/2013, 09:04 PM	#16
Arnel0387 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 997	TAILSPOT BLENNY! Aweeeeesome personality (I love midas blenny also but they may get aggressive in a small tank) If I were you, I'd get a 40 breeder tank (3ft tank) as a started tank. Or a 60 gallon (4ft tank). Or go big or go home and get yourself a 6ft tank to house a small tang! __________________ Minimalist, barebottom, SPS dominated dream tank coming soon! My reefing philosophy: SPS = Stability. Patience. Simplicity.

07/28/2013, 06:52 AM	#18
Nina51 biggliest cofveve champ Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: 5th floor, Illinois, gewgaw expert Posts: 3,506	i have a 29g cube with 2 clowns, 1 firefish, 1 dottyback, 1 orange spotted goby, 1 cherub angel, a couple of emerald crabs and several corals. all of my fish are small and i have never had a problem with aggression. not to say i won't at some point but they have all lived together for months with no problems. there was a bit of domestic violence between the clowns recently but that has settled down. i also have a 14g cube with 2 clowns and 1 royal gramma. this, too, is a peaceful tank with no problems. some would say my 29g is overstocked but i've had no problems. regular water changes and testing params will offer success. i test every few days and do weekly water changes. easy peasy in such small tanks. __________________ of all the things i've lost, i miss my gary the most. Never hold your farts in. They travel up your spine into your brain, and that is where crappy ideas come from. Current Tank Info: i gave my reef away and i feel like a bird out of a cage!!

07/26/2013, 02:51 PM	#2
nlgill13 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Boulder,CO Posts: 1,291	clown/s royal gramma firefish this might help http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/a...plies.cfm?c=15

07/26/2013, 03:12 PM	#3
lurch71 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: oregon Posts: 55	I would suggest a diamond goby I have one and love how it keeps the sand clean. And it fun to watch them filter the sand

07/26/2013, 03:58 PM	#4
Bshanks4321 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 50	Clown, Orchid Dottyback, Royal Gramma, Any Goby and most blennies.

07/26/2013, 05:27 PM	#6
apolloreef Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 96	Thanks for the tips. I have been using live aquaria. About the dottybacks. It says they can be semi-aggressive, do you think that will be a problem with small gobies or clowns who can also be territorial? And will it eat peppermint shrimp or other cleaning crew members (mentions ornamental shrimp, but those might be sexy shrimp?). How comparable are the dottybacks to a Royal Gramma, they look similar but how do they behave/eat? I've seen some posts that say multiple blennies do not work (even if they are different species?). Gobies are quite peaceful correct?

07/26/2013, 05:29 PM	#7
apolloreef Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 96	In addition could you mention why you recommend a certain species or group please. It will help me decide because the smaller tank limits the number.

07/26/2013, 09:12 PM	#10
apolloreef Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 96	Thank you for the input. What about the clown/citron gobies? I have heard that they are personable and really stay out of others business.

07/27/2013, 05:07 PM	#11
St1ckyReefer Moved On Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 51	I love them, im not sure why but the only one i ever saw refused to eat and eventually starved, but i don't know if thats a common occurrence or not

07/27/2013, 05:52 PM	#13
dkeller_nc Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Central NC Posts: 5,062	If I were you, and given the size of your tank, I would ditch the clownfish idea. Clownfish can grow quite large (at least relative to a 20 gallon tank), and they are potentially quite territorial, particularly if the are a mated pair that are breeding. I also would ditch the idea of any semi-nasty territorial fish, like dottybacks, any and all damselfish, and the smaller dwarf angels (even though your tank is big enough for a cherub or potentially a flame). Since you can only have one tank, if one of the fish turns out to be nasty to tankmates, you're stuck. You'll either wind up with one fish in the tank (the nasty one), have to find someone to give it away to, or humanely dispatch it in the freezer. Instead, consider the idea of a very low aggression community. The yellow clown gobies are very peaceable and very interesting. Barnacle blennies are hilarious, and also communal so you could keep several in your tank. For algae control, a lawnmower blenny is a nice asset and is generally very peaceful, though you may have to supplement its food with Nori after it annihilates the algae in the tank. Low-aggression cardinal fish like the threadfin cardinal or the red-spot cardinal are possibilities, and with these specific cardinal fish species, you could keep 2 or 3. Avoid the other cardinalfish species - they can be nasty to tankmates. The smaller firefish species are great for smaller tanks so long as there's a tight-fitting cover and they aren't bullied by boisterious tankmates. A couple of other possibilities would be dragon-faced or striped pipefish so long as you don't also include rapid swimmers like a six-line wrasse, but be aware that you must provide small crustacean food for them (like Cyclops and the occasional feeding of newly hatched brine shrimp). If you want to include a wrasse, a six-line has a very good reputation about not harassing tank mates in smaller tanks and they remain small. Some of the basslets would be good choices for a low-aggression tank as well, such as the chalk bass or the black cap basslet. The ultimate basslet for a small tank is a royal gramma, but it is sometimes difficult to obtain a healthy specimen. The possum wrasses (tanaka's , yellow-banded and white banded possum wrasse) would also be good choices. You could consider a couple of dwarf seahorses, but if so, they need to be the only fish in the tank because it will be impossible to feed them if they are kept with faster-swimming tankmates. But there may be one aspect of this that you might not have considered - you must quarantine these fish and be prepared to treat them to ensure that they are healthy. That necessitates setting up a second tank, even if it's just temporary. All it will take is introducing ich, amyloodinium, or brooklynella to the tank and the "$100 limit" will be exceeded in a couple of days.

07/27/2013, 07:17 PM	#14
apolloreef Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 96	Thanks for the suggestions. I found out that I can go up to 29g so I will be adding the extra volume. I think my fiance really wants to see a clown, but maybe I will skip the pair if it will curb some issues. So new plan is: Water Column Fish: Small fairy or flasher wrasse Clownfish (ocellaris) Royal Gramma Bottom/Sandbed: Clown or citron goby Tailspot or bicolor blenny Possibly and shrimp goby and shrimp pair (maybe switch in a firefish)

07/27/2013, 07:38 PM	#15
dkeller_nc Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Central NC Posts: 5,062	You may have some difficulties feeding the royal gramma and the shrimp goby because of competition from the wrasse and the clownfish, but otherwise, this will probably work. Keep in mind that this is a relatively high fish load for a 29 gallon tank (though not hugely excessive), and because of the feeding competition, you will need to offer a lot of food several times a day. For that reason, you will need an effective skimmer (a Red Sea prism won't cut it!) and perform fairly frequent water changes. Running activated carbon or Purigen (but not both - they do the same job) will help as well. Don't ignore the quarantine requirement - even from reputable suppliers, ich and/or brookynella is possibility and once you introduce it into the display tank, your only option is to remove every fish and allow it to run fishless for about 2 months.

07/28/2013, 07:23 AM	#19
dkeller_nc Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Central NC Posts: 5,062	Hopefully it works out for you (the clowns and the cherub would be the most worrisome), but the main reason I advise against more than one clown in a small tank is what happens down the road when the clownfish reach sexual maturity, the dominant one changes to a female, and the pair begin to breed. That's when all heck breaks loose, juvenile clowns can be kept in fairly large groups in smallish tanks when they're young. Similarly, dwarf angels tend to get more aggressive as they mature. But that's not an automatic - dwarf angels are highly variable from individual to individual. Some will bully the other fish in a small tank to death (literally), some individuals of the same species will be perfectly nice to their tankmates; some will pester a tridacnid clam to death, some will never touch it, etc....