1st. Sump design , Help .

SWAT · 01/04/2015, 08:52 AM

I've decided to make my own sump because I have a problem with microbubbles now. This is my first time designing a sump. I already have a gravity fed refugium, that's why the center section is reserved for live rock. I decided to go under over under on the baffles before the return pump to stop any rough water problems because that's where my ATO float switch will be located . Please let me know if this looks ok and any changes I may have to make. Thanks .

Mark_C · 01/04/2015, 09:02 AM

Looks good. You really don't need the over-under-over between the fuge and the return, the single 8" over is fine. I've got the exact same setup (with only the single baffle as above) and my ATO is in the return, all works great.

SWAT · 01/04/2015, 09:43 AM

i just want to be 100% I get no micro bubbles , I have such a problem with them now , I have two sponges in the sump and on the return pump trying to keep them to a minimum that are a pain to clean every week , Id like to keep the maintenance to a minimum . My LED`s reflect off them so bad it looks like the water isn't clean !

dkeller_nc · 01/04/2015, 09:54 AM

I second the opinion on the redundancy of the 2nd bubble trap. If you still get bubbles with the one bubble trap between your skimmer compartment and the live rock compartment, it's time to start examining the skimmer and/or slow down the return pump.

One other consideration is where to put the tank heater. It should always be located in a compartment of the sump that can't drain if the ATO fails and the water level gets low.

SWAT · 01/04/2015, 10:29 AM

What about this ? I like the idea of the last chamber having some kind of baffle so my ATO float doesn't go crazy .

skeeter_ca · 01/04/2015, 11:39 AM

I have a sump with 3 compartments, no skimmer, no over under baffles, Durso pipe creating massive amount of bubbles. The cheato in the middle covers the entire width of the sump and stops all bubbles traveling thru it.

skeeter

RocketEngineer · 01/04/2015, 12:01 PM

The 10" baffle is fine. The under baffle after that is unnecessary. I would remove the 9" baffle after that and instead have the baffle after the LR section be 9". I would do a full over-under-over bubble trap before the return section using the 9" to start and the 8" to finish.

You would do well not to use an under-over situation as that would trap any oils in the section. You want to go over the first baffle after a section so the surface is constantly being renewed. For the return section, the water going over the last baffle churns any build up back into the water to be recycled back through the system.

JMO.

Sgt Jonny Cat · 01/04/2015, 12:12 PM

That's just about what I built for my 55 gallon tank. I made it out of a 30 gallon tank. The one thing I see you really don't need is 2 bubble traps. This will save you some room which I would use in your return area. Otherwise it looks good. Are you going to put sand in the center?

tomreefer · 01/04/2015, 12:47 PM

I wouldn't put live rock in your sump a detrius trap. I had high nitrates in my sump and really couldnt figure out why. I than read a article about rock in fuge can collect detrius. I sold my rock in the fuge and the only thing I have in fuge now is chaeto. Unless you have a big fuge it really doesnt do anything thats what I read. I know only have 5ppm of Nitrates in my tank since before I had over 40ppm.

CanReefer · 01/04/2015, 12:49 PM

The only thing I'd note here is that your baffles are high compared to the height of the tank. This doesn't leave a whole lot of reserve space in the case of a power outage.

SWAT · 01/04/2015, 01:43 PM

Okay, I've made the battles 1 inch shorter for more power outage overflow. I made the center section a little smaller just for chato , and the return pump section a little bigger because it's only going to have between five and six inches of water in it .

tomreefer · 01/04/2015, 01:50 PM

Note: What skimmer are you using? What is the recommended water height for your skimmer? Make sure that department you are putting the skimmer at is at that water height or your using a stand.

My sump I have the return in the middle. Not sure if it makes a difference though. Maybe someone can tell me the difference

SWAT · 01/04/2015, 01:58 PM

My skimmer is the reef octopus SS110 , suggested water depth is 7.8" , I should be fine at 9" , I can raise the skimmer on some egg crate if needed .

RocketEngineer · 01/04/2015, 02:00 PM

Improving. The under baffle after the skimmer section doesn't really do anything but otherwise looks good.

SWAT · 01/04/2015, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RocketEngineer

Improving. The under baffle after the skimmer section doesn't really do anything but otherwise looks good.

I thought water moving down under the baffle would reduce the bubbles rather then falling over the baffle .

RocketEngineer · 01/04/2015, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SWAT

I thought water moving down under the baffle would reduce the bubbles rather then falling over the baffle .

Sure, but you only really need this before they get sucked up by the return pump. That is why you only really need a bubble trap in one spot.

In my sump I have the return pump in the middle with the bubble trap between the skimmer and return sections. With the return in the middle of mine I have my cheato section fed from the return pump and the water just flows over the one baffle slow enough not to create bubbles. The water level in the return section is about 1/8" below the top of the last baffle so the water exiting the bubble trap isn't falling into the return section so much as rippling over that last baffle. Any bubbles from the drains or skimmer have to make it through the trap and not pop going over the ripple. Even with a higher flow rate than most, I rarely have micro bubbles coming out of my returns.

SWAT · 01/04/2015, 02:44 PM

Thanks so much gentleman , I think I'm going to sick to this latest design . I'll build it over the next week and post some pics .

SWAT · 01/06/2015, 03:50 PM

I've started to build the stump and have come acrossed another idea that I like please tell me if this will work. Instead of having the drain pour directly into a single sock I would like to try this design and have two socks that the water spills into . The first photo is a design I found on Google and the second photo is what I want to do in my sump.

STPA · 01/06/2015, 04:24 PM

I did mine like you want to do and it works awesome. Easy to maintain. No rocks in mine though. First is where water drains from the display by herbie drain, then goes over glass baffle to 2 4" filter socks, then to protein skimmer area where my refugium also drains to, then through bubble trap which is also where I keep my heaters, finally into return area. If I can figure out how to get pictures on here I'll post a couple pics. I spaced my baffles for bubble trap a little over 2" so water wouldn't flow as fast through them and carry any bubbles with it. My flow is around 400-500 gph through sump and no bubbles.

tomreefer · 01/06/2015, 04:27 PM

I am not a big fan of filter socks to be honest. Why? They can take away pods, etc from the tank which is beneficial. I would personally get rid of the filter socks thats my opinion though.

JammyBirch · 01/06/2015, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RocketEngineer

The 10" baffle is fine. The under baffle after that is unnecessary. I would remove the 9" baffle after that and instead have the baffle after the LR section be 9". I would do a full over-under-over bubble trap before the return section using the 9" to start and the 8" to finish.

You would do well not to use an under-over situation as that would trap any oils in the section. You want to go over the first baffle after a section so the surface is constantly being renewed. For the return section, the water going over the last baffle churns any build up back into the water to be recycled back through the system.

JMO.

I agree I would go over the last baffle for the return, and cut that baffle as short as you can to keep the minimum water level in the return chamber that is needed.

JammyBirch · 01/06/2015, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomreefer

I am not a big fan of filter socks to be honest. Why? They can take away pods, etc from the tank which is beneficial. I would personally get rid of the filter socks thats my opinion though.

+1 on not using socks, they require maintenance and can be a source of nitrate release from trapped stuff that decays.

STPA · 01/06/2015, 05:55 PM

First picture of my sump

STPA · 01/06/2015, 05:57 PM

Second

STPA · 01/06/2015, 05:58 PM

Last one. How do you do one post with all pictures in it?

01/04/2015, 08:52 AM	#1
SWAT Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: St. Pete , FL Posts: 89	1st. Sump design , Help . I've decided to make my own sump because I have a problem with microbubbles now. This is my first time designing a sump. I already have a gravity fed refugium, that's why the center section is reserved for live rock. I decided to go under over under on the baffles before the return pump to stop any rough water problems because that's where my ATO float switch will be located . Please let me know if this looks ok and any changes I may have to make. Thanks . __________________ Current Tank: 65RR Deep Blue , Gravity drain refugium , Reef Octopus 110SS skimmer , Mag9 return pump , 2 jebao WP-25 , BRS GFO/Carbon reactor , 2 Reef Radiance DM-165e .

01/04/2015, 09:43 AM	#3
SWAT Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: St. Pete , FL Posts: 89	i just want to be 100% I get no micro bubbles , I have such a problem with them now , I have two sponges in the sump and on the return pump trying to keep them to a minimum that are a pain to clean every week , Id like to keep the maintenance to a minimum . My LED`s reflect off them so bad it looks like the water isn't clean ! __________________ Current Tank: 65RR Deep Blue , Gravity drain refugium , Reef Octopus 110SS skimmer , Mag9 return pump , 2 jebao WP-25 , BRS GFO/Carbon reactor , 2 Reef Radiance DM-165e .

01/04/2015, 10:29 AM	#5
SWAT Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: St. Pete , FL Posts: 89	What about this ? I like the idea of the last chamber having some kind of baffle so my ATO float doesn't go crazy . __________________ Current Tank: 65RR Deep Blue , Gravity drain refugium , Reef Octopus 110SS skimmer , Mag9 return pump , 2 jebao WP-25 , BRS GFO/Carbon reactor , 2 Reef Radiance DM-165e .

01/04/2015, 11:39 AM	#6
skeeter_ca Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Yucaipa, CA Posts: 1,007	I have a sump with 3 compartments, no skimmer, no over under baffles, Durso pipe creating massive amount of bubbles. The cheato in the middle covers the entire width of the sump and stops all bubbles traveling thru it. skeeter __________________ skeeter - It is easier to ask for forgiveness than premission. My motto to my wife. Current Tank Info: 75rr,6"dsb,refugium,auto top-off & semi-auto water changer, OM squirt. 4 MJs 1200, Started on 03/03/06

01/04/2015, 12:01 PM	#7
RocketEngineer Space is big. Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Maryland Eastern Shore Posts: 3,226	The 10" baffle is fine. The under baffle after that is unnecessary. I would remove the 9" baffle after that and instead have the baffle after the LR section be 9". I would do a full over-under-over bubble trap before the return section using the 9" to start and the 8" to finish. You would do well not to use an under-over situation as that would trap any oils in the section. You want to go over the first baffle after a section so the surface is constantly being renewed. For the return section, the water going over the last baffle churns any build up back into the water to be recycled back through the system. JMO. __________________ -RocketEngineer "Knowledge is what you get when you read the directions, experience is what you get when you don't." - Unknown Current Tank Info: None Currently

01/04/2015, 09:02 AM	#2
Mark_C Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Brick, NJ Posts: 139	Looks good. You really don't need the over-under-over between the fuge and the return, the single 8" over is fine. I've got the exact same setup (with only the single baffle as above) and my ATO is in the return, all works great.

01/04/2015, 09:54 AM	#4
dkeller_nc Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Central NC Posts: 5,062	I second the opinion on the redundancy of the 2nd bubble trap. If you still get bubbles with the one bubble trap between your skimmer compartment and the live rock compartment, it's time to start examining the skimmer and/or slow down the return pump. One other consideration is where to put the tank heater. It should always be located in a compartment of the sump that can't drain if the ATO fails and the water level gets low.

01/04/2015, 12:12 PM	#8
Sgt Jonny Cat Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: North of Boston Ma. Posts: 685	That's just about what I built for my 55 gallon tank. I made it out of a 30 gallon tank. The one thing I see you really don't need is 2 bubble traps. This will save you some room which I would use in your return area. Otherwise it looks good. Are you going to put sand in the center? __________________ In the process of putting together a 150 gallon mixed reef. Ill keep you posted. Current Tank Info: 55 Gallon

01/04/2015, 12:47 PM	#9
tomreefer Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 767	I wouldn't put live rock in your sump a detrius trap. I had high nitrates in my sump and really couldnt figure out why. I than read a article about rock in fuge can collect detrius. I sold my rock in the fuge and the only thing I have in fuge now is chaeto. Unless you have a big fuge it really doesnt do anything thats what I read. I know only have 5ppm of Nitrates in my tank since before I had over 40ppm.

01/04/2015, 12:49 PM	#10
CanReefer Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 10	The only thing I'd note here is that your baffles are high compared to the height of the tank. This doesn't leave a whole lot of reserve space in the case of a power outage.

01/04/2015, 01:43 PM	#11
SWAT Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: St. Pete , FL Posts: 89	Okay, I've made the battles 1 inch shorter for more power outage overflow. I made the center section a little smaller just for chato , and the return pump section a little bigger because it's only going to have between five and six inches of water in it . __________________ Current Tank: 65RR Deep Blue , Gravity drain refugium , Reef Octopus 110SS skimmer , Mag9 return pump , 2 jebao WP-25 , BRS GFO/Carbon reactor , 2 Reef Radiance DM-165e .

01/04/2015, 01:50 PM	#12
tomreefer Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 767	Note: What skimmer are you using? What is the recommended water height for your skimmer? Make sure that department you are putting the skimmer at is at that water height or your using a stand. My sump I have the return in the middle. Not sure if it makes a difference though. Maybe someone can tell me the difference

01/04/2015, 01:58 PM	#13
SWAT Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: St. Pete , FL Posts: 89	My skimmer is the reef octopus SS110 , suggested water depth is 7.8" , I should be fine at 9" , I can raise the skimmer on some egg crate if needed . __________________ Current Tank: 65RR Deep Blue , Gravity drain refugium , Reef Octopus 110SS skimmer , Mag9 return pump , 2 jebao WP-25 , BRS GFO/Carbon reactor , 2 Reef Radiance DM-165e .

01/04/2015, 02:00 PM	#14
RocketEngineer Space is big. Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Maryland Eastern Shore Posts: 3,226	Improving. The under baffle after the skimmer section doesn't really do anything but otherwise looks good. __________________ -RocketEngineer "Knowledge is what you get when you read the directions, experience is what you get when you don't." - Unknown Current Tank Info: None Currently

01/04/2015, 02:44 PM	#17
SWAT Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: St. Pete , FL Posts: 89	Thanks so much gentleman , I think I'm going to sick to this latest design . I'll build it over the next week and post some pics . __________________ Current Tank: 65RR Deep Blue , Gravity drain refugium , Reef Octopus 110SS skimmer , Mag9 return pump , 2 jebao WP-25 , BRS GFO/Carbon reactor , 2 Reef Radiance DM-165e .

01/06/2015, 03:50 PM	#18
SWAT Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: St. Pete , FL Posts: 89	I've started to build the stump and have come acrossed another idea that I like please tell me if this will work. Instead of having the drain pour directly into a single sock I would like to try this design and have two socks that the water spills into . The first photo is a design I found on Google and the second photo is what I want to do in my sump. __________________ Current Tank: 65RR Deep Blue , Gravity drain refugium , Reef Octopus 110SS skimmer , Mag9 return pump , 2 jebao WP-25 , BRS GFO/Carbon reactor , 2 Reef Radiance DM-165e .

01/06/2015, 04:24 PM	#19
STPA Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 22	I did mine like you want to do and it works awesome. Easy to maintain. No rocks in mine though. First is where water drains from the display by herbie drain, then goes over glass baffle to 2 4" filter socks, then to protein skimmer area where my refugium also drains to, then through bubble trap which is also where I keep my heaters, finally into return area. If I can figure out how to get pictures on here I'll post a couple pics. I spaced my baffles for bubble trap a little over 2" so water wouldn't flow as fast through them and carry any bubbles with it. My flow is around 400-500 gph through sump and no bubbles.

01/06/2015, 04:27 PM	#20
tomreefer Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 767	I am not a big fan of filter socks to be honest. Why? They can take away pods, etc from the tank which is beneficial. I would personally get rid of the filter socks thats my opinion though.