Setting up skimmer feed from overflow?

HBtank · 05/28/2007, 11:21 PM

Whats the best way to do this? It will be from a 1.5" overflow, going to a 1/2" skimmer feed. I am planning on using a tee, but want to do it right the first time. Return is about 500 gph.

I am thinking I will have to use a 1" reducer on the overflow bulkhead to start...? And tee it so the bottom of the tee is going straight through to the skimmer (and reduced to 1/2 of course) and then have the side output of the tee stay at 1" and go to the sump.

I will run ~100 gph (advice on this number would be appreciated as well) through the skimmer and ~400 directly to the sump.

It runs perfect right now, I am worried about causing surging etc...

??

klam114 · 05/28/2007, 11:36 PM

Just a suggestion, go with 1.5" until the plumbing takes it first below and reduce from 1.5" to 1", the don't reduce to 1/2" for the skimmer until right before the skimmer, but right after the ball/gate valve. Here's a post that might help.

Quote:

Originally posted by UCanDoIt
In response to question by email about details on the gravity feed. If you are going to gravity feed from the tank's overflow box, you need the pressure to be constant going to the skimmer, so the greatest waterflow should be directed straight towards the skimmer and then tailored back by a ball or gate valve. You also need a T fitting before the ball or gate valve, so all the excess surging and gurgling that goes on with overflows empties out on the side of the T into the sump. Here's a sketch that my aquarium maintenance person did for me when he setup my tank. My gravity feed in an earlier photo is setup exactly like this.

klam114 · 05/28/2007, 11:45 PM

Both posts were taken from the H&S/Fins Reef sponsored forum. Here's another photo that maybe helpful. The skimmer on the right needs a ball/gate valve at the end of the vertical drop, before it elbows and reduces to 1/2" towards the skimmer.

Quote:

Originally posted by klam114
I knew I saw a installation question thread here on H&S forum. RS, you should have added this photo you got from Ed to these instructions.
Originally posted by Reef Sponger
I just bought my H&S A150 from KM Asscoiates Int'l and Ed (owner) is a wealth of info (really knows skimmers). I've had my H&S A150 for 2 weeks now and it broke in on the 3rd day and has been getting better daily. H&S is a little on the pricey, but from my 2 weeks experience so far, it's totally worth it.

My H&S is a recirculating skimmer that can be setup externally or in sump. I have it in sump and fed by a Eheim Compact1000 pump, just right. I've been studying gravity feed and not sure if I'm going to do it yet as my skimmer is performing perfectly and much better than my previous skimmers on this same tank. Here's a photo that Ed from kmaintl emailed to me that shows how the plumbing should be setup for gravity feed from the tank's overflow.

Jim_S · 05/29/2007, 12:05 AM

I'd go 1.5" until you get to the BV, unless you want to go 1" the whole way. It won't really matter. But a 1.5" BV will cost a bit more than a 1", but not much.

You want to reduce the feed as close to the skimmer body as you can. I chose vinyl tube for fexibility.

This is how I plumbed mine

Once you get it dialed in, you won't want to run your skimmer any other way.

Cheers,

Jim

HBtank · 05/29/2007, 08:50 AM

Thanks for the help, last thing I want is to disrupt what has been a perfect overflow.

I will plan it out tonight. The skimmer has a ball valve on the feed, so I will just reduce it right before (Going to need at least two reducers to go from from 1.5" to 1/2", I am guessing) and I will keep the sump overflow tee at 1.5"

I am going to get it all cemented except for the last main 1.5 connection before the final installation... I think I will leave that uncemented and just use teflon.. But maybe not..

How long do people recommend letting PVC cement cure before using? Just want to make sure...

Jim_S · 05/29/2007, 09:22 AM

PVC glue usually cures really quickly. I have been able to run my systems within 10-15 minutes after final assembly.

Jim

HBtank · 05/29/2007, 10:40 PM

I think I want to add a gate valve to the skimmer return. I have seen them after the tee, and before the tee (like your picture above)

Is there a difference between the two placements?

I want to be able to set the max flow to the skimmer from the overflow with the ball valve on the feed, and then fine tune the level with the gate valve on the return.

Is this the best setup? Are gate valves very helpful with recirculating setups?

Also from what I have read, it is best to have around 1.5 the tank volume through the skimmer per hour? is this correct?

Thanks for all the help...

Jim_S · 05/30/2007, 12:04 AM

The gatevalve after the T works fine from what I have seen. I'm just not sure you need on on your EX-1. Deltec doesn't use one on their apf600. I'm pretty sure that model skimmer can be adjusted adaquately through the use of an airtap on the intake.

What you are going to want to do is hook the skimmer up to the drain, leaving the GV (if you install one) open, then calculate the flow through. After you get to 1-1.5 times, then you can adjust from the airtap or gatevalve from there.

And yes, 1-1.5 times your system volume is what you are looking for.

A sea K · 05/30/2007, 06:18 AM

I had my valve after the tee and it resulted in sluggish reaction to any change. It would allow the water to back up in the stand pipe above the tee and create a false sense of pressure which took time for any setting to react to. This caused some incosistant setting issues I was having. I changed it Monday morning to the valve before the tee and like this setup much better.

HBtank · 05/30/2007, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jimdogg187
The gatevalve after the T works fine from what I have seen. I'm just not sure you need on on your EX-1. Deltec doesn't use one on their apf600. I'm pretty sure that model skimmer can be adjusted adaquately through the use of an airtap on the intake.

What you are going to want to do is hook the skimmer up to the drain, leaving the GV (if you install one) open, then calculate the flow through. After you get to 1-1.5 times, then you can adjust from the airtap or gatevalve from there.

And yes, 1-1.5 times your system volume is what you are looking for.

By airtap you mean the valve to the venturi?

I think I will install the gate anyways before the tee, so that I can have even more controllability (even if it ends up being not much use), a 1" gate is pretty cheap and would take no time to throw on...

If you do mean the venturi valve.. then it seems I will be able to keep the maximum LPH in air possible and not have to cut it with the air valve in order to adjust levels, I can use the gate instead to fine tune the level within the skimmer?

At least I think so, I really have never used this kind of setup before so I am just guessing..?? I have read it runs great stock, but of course I have to mod it someway..

Thanks for all the help, I am really excited to hook this skimmer up, but want to get it right the first time and not have to break it down later..

Jim_S · 05/30/2007, 05:20 PM

Before you do anything permanent, you should call over at your retailer's and ask if the DAS exhaust is metric or standard.

Quote:

Originally posted by HBtank
By airtap you mean the valve to the venturi?

Quote:

Originally posted by HBtank
I can use the gate instead to fine tune the level within the skimmer?

Well, the GV will probably be able to raise the water level in the skimmer, but definetly not lower it. In order to lower it, you'll have to use an airtap. An airtap is a control valve that you can place on the skimmer's air intake. Many Deltec owners use them on their skimmers. Especially the smaller models (like yours).

I honestly don't think you'll need a GV, but feel free to mod it to your liking

Cheers,

Jim

HBtank · 05/30/2007, 06:42 PM

Makes sense....

restricting with a gate valve would raise the level, but I am guessing opening the airvalve will too? (excuse my ignorance, I have a CSS and It is hard for me to imagine a skimmer than can actually raise it's level with bubbles....

)

So using a gatevalve to resrict the water would only limit the amount of air by filling the reaction chamber with water...? I hope I finally get it.. lol

jus set the ball valve feed and adjust the air valve to the right spot... I am going to start low and break it in..

Jim_S · 05/30/2007, 07:25 PM

No, the gatevalve increases back pressure in the body, and as a result, the foam head rises in the skimmer neck.

I'd start the skimmer off with an airtap at the 2'oclock position. After it breaks in, then you can give it full throttle. But while it's breaking in, it might overflow on you.

But yes, quality NW RC skimmers will absolutely outperform your old CSS.

05/28/2007, 11:21 PM	#1
HBtank Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Huntington Beach, CA Posts: 2,957	Setting up skimmer feed from overflow? Whats the best way to do this? It will be from a 1.5" overflow, going to a 1/2" skimmer feed. I am planning on using a tee, but want to do it right the first time. Return is about 500 gph. I am thinking I will have to use a 1" reducer on the overflow bulkhead to start...? And tee it so the bottom of the tee is going straight through to the skimmer (and reduced to 1/2 of course) and then have the side output of the tee stay at 1" and go to the sump. I will run ~100 gph (advice on this number would be appreciated as well) through the skimmer and ~400 directly to the sump. It runs perfect right now, I am worried about causing surging etc... ?? Last edited by HBtank; 05/28/2007 at 11:27 PM.

05/29/2007, 12:05 AM	#4
Jim_S Timo Boll Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 5,333	I'd go 1.5" until you get to the BV, unless you want to go 1" the whole way. It won't really matter. But a 1.5" BV will cost a bit more than a 1", but not much. You want to reduce the feed as close to the skimmer body as you can. I chose vinyl tube for fexibility. This is how I plumbed mine Once you get it dialed in, you won't want to run your skimmer any other way. Cheers, Jim __________________ We will survive in this world of competition, shooting guns and our ammunition... Bradley Nowell Current Tank Info: We're recreating the ocean in our livings rooms. With that said, I've had some ups and downs.

05/29/2007, 08:50 AM	#5
HBtank Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Huntington Beach, CA Posts: 2,957	Thanks for the help, last thing I want is to disrupt what has been a perfect overflow. I will plan it out tonight. The skimmer has a ball valve on the feed, so I will just reduce it right before (Going to need at least two reducers to go from from 1.5" to 1/2", I am guessing) and I will keep the sump overflow tee at 1.5" I am going to get it all cemented except for the last main 1.5 connection before the final installation... I think I will leave that uncemented and just use teflon.. But maybe not.. How long do people recommend letting PVC cement cure before using? Just want to make sure... __________________ 80g Aiptasia dominated reef tank.. with fish and now a bunch of berghia! Current Tank Info: 80g tank, re-starting a reef after a zoanthid nudibranch plauge, followed by months of steady and unstoppable STN/RTN, crashed; stayed FOWLR for a couple years, currently an aiptasia dominated reef tank with fishies and BERGHIA Last edited by HBtank; 05/29/2007 at 09:02 AM.

05/29/2007, 09:22 AM	#6
Jim_S Timo Boll Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 5,333	PVC glue usually cures really quickly. I have been able to run my systems within 10-15 minutes after final assembly. Jim __________________ We will survive in this world of competition, shooting guns and our ammunition... Bradley Nowell Current Tank Info: We're recreating the ocean in our livings rooms. With that said, I've had some ups and downs.

05/29/2007, 10:40 PM	#7
HBtank Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Huntington Beach, CA Posts: 2,957	I think I want to add a gate valve to the skimmer return. I have seen them after the tee, and before the tee (like your picture above) Is there a difference between the two placements? I want to be able to set the max flow to the skimmer from the overflow with the ball valve on the feed, and then fine tune the level with the gate valve on the return. Is this the best setup? Are gate valves very helpful with recirculating setups? Also from what I have read, it is best to have around 1.5 the tank volume through the skimmer per hour? is this correct? Thanks for all the help... __________________ 80g Aiptasia dominated reef tank.. with fish and now a bunch of berghia! Current Tank Info: 80g tank, re-starting a reef after a zoanthid nudibranch plauge, followed by months of steady and unstoppable STN/RTN, crashed; stayed FOWLR for a couple years, currently an aiptasia dominated reef tank with fishies and BERGHIA

05/30/2007, 12:04 AM	#8
Jim_S Timo Boll Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 5,333	The gatevalve after the T works fine from what I have seen. I'm just not sure you need on on your EX-1. Deltec doesn't use one on their apf600. I'm pretty sure that model skimmer can be adjusted adaquately through the use of an airtap on the intake. What you are going to want to do is hook the skimmer up to the drain, leaving the GV (if you install one) open, then calculate the flow through. After you get to 1-1.5 times, then you can adjust from the airtap or gatevalve from there. And yes, 1-1.5 times your system volume is what you are looking for. __________________ We will survive in this world of competition, shooting guns and our ammunition... Bradley Nowell Current Tank Info: We're recreating the ocean in our livings rooms. With that said, I've had some ups and downs.

05/30/2007, 06:18 AM	#9
A sea K Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Branford Fl Posts: 3,024	I had my valve after the tee and it resulted in sluggish reaction to any change. It would allow the water to back up in the stand pipe above the tee and create a false sense of pressure which took time for any setting to react to. This caused some incosistant setting issues I was having. I changed it Monday morning to the valve before the tee and like this setup much better. __________________ I am not a pro so excuse me if I'm wrong. Current Tank Info: 30gal Deep Blue rimless 9/10/2014, 80gal Deep Blue rimless 40gal sump/refugium 9/11/16 LPS reef, 2 x Kessil A160 with a single Maxspect Razor, RO Prime 150INT skimmer, Sicce 3 return pump, Vortech MP40 and MP10

05/30/2007, 06:42 PM	#12
HBtank Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Huntington Beach, CA Posts: 2,957	Makes sense.... restricting with a gate valve would raise the level, but I am guessing opening the airvalve will too? (excuse my ignorance, I have a CSS and It is hard for me to imagine a skimmer than can actually raise it's level with bubbles.... ) So using a gatevalve to resrict the water would only limit the amount of air by filling the reaction chamber with water...? I hope I finally get it.. lol jus set the ball valve feed and adjust the air valve to the right spot... I am going to start low and break it in.. __________________ 80g Aiptasia dominated reef tank.. with fish and now a bunch of berghia! Current Tank Info: 80g tank, re-starting a reef after a zoanthid nudibranch plauge, followed by months of steady and unstoppable STN/RTN, crashed; stayed FOWLR for a couple years, currently an aiptasia dominated reef tank with fishies and BERGHIA Last edited by HBtank; 05/30/2007 at 06:48 PM.

05/30/2007, 07:25 PM	#13
Jim_S Timo Boll Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 5,333	No, the gatevalve increases back pressure in the body, and as a result, the foam head rises in the skimmer neck. I'd start the skimmer off with an airtap at the 2'oclock position. After it breaks in, then you can give it full throttle. But while it's breaking in, it might overflow on you. But yes, quality NW RC skimmers will absolutely outperform your old CSS. __________________ We will survive in this world of competition, shooting guns and our ammunition... Bradley Nowell Current Tank Info: We're recreating the ocean in our livings rooms. With that said, I've had some ups and downs.