what to test for to know base rock is cured?

coryjac0b · 07/07/2007, 06:45 PM

what should i test for to see if my base rock is cured?

ammonia?

nitrates?

figuerres · 07/07/2007, 07:07 PM

both of them.... just like a tank you are watching for a cycle.

that and look to see if anything is "growing" like sponges or coraline alge, if they are growing and the amo and nit are zero then you are good.

melev · 07/07/2007, 07:43 PM

Test for pH as well if you are making your own base rock. If the pH is way high, it is too soon to use it.

coryjac0b · 07/07/2007, 08:11 PM

i bought some rock from marcorocks.com. i've done 100% water changes on it about 3 times with ro water. the first time the water was brown, this last time it was almost clear a little haizy brown.

i did a 100% water change with ro water, i have a maxi-mod powerhead in there so theres good water movement, should i be able to check it tommorrow and get an accurate reading?

melev · 07/07/2007, 08:18 PM

I would think so. Several members from DFWMAS are using it. Just remember that base rock is merely rock and will not count toward your natural filtration. If you have a 220g reef with 100lbs of base rock and 100 lbs of LR, you are nowhere close to the 1.5lbs of LR per gallon that you need for natural filtration.

Base rock can become live but it can take about 6 months to get to that point. And it comes down to the density of the stone too.

coryjac0b · 07/07/2007, 08:23 PM

i do have a 220g, and right now i have about 150lbs of LR, and im adding about 70 lbs of base rock.

melev · 07/07/2007, 08:30 PM

I'd add another 100lbs of LR, but that's just me.

coryjac0b · 07/07/2007, 09:04 PM

i most probably will, but finances won't let me ATM.

melev · 07/07/2007, 09:59 PM

Totally understandable. I just wanted to make sure you don't count it as 220lbs of LR and rely on it to care for your livestock as if it was. Others have made that mistake.

cayars · 07/08/2007, 05:41 AM

Why would you not count it as 220 lbs melev?

From the standpoint of nitrate reduction (main reason for rock) the type of rock you add doesn't really matter much. It doesn't make much difference how much corolline algae is on the rock, what is growing on the rock (IE, sps, sponges, etc) or what hitch hikers you get with the rock. This is really cosmetic.

What matters is how porous the rock is and how "room" is available for the anaerobic bacteria to populate.

100 lbs of porous "dead" rock in my book is better then 100 lbs of "premium-great looking" typical live rock that is dense! This is from a NITRATE standpoint which is the reason to add "additional" live rock to the system besides looks and protective places for your fish/corals (aquascaping).

Without knowing the type of rock already in the tank or the type of "base rock" added I think it's a little unfair to say it doesn't count.

Carlo

jlo0218 · 07/08/2007, 07:38 AM

you can also smell it.

uncured rock smells like ***

melev · 07/08/2007, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cayars
Why would you not count it as 220 lbs melev?

From the standpoint of nitrate reduction (main reason for rock) the type of rock you add doesn't really matter much. It doesn't make much difference how much corolline algae is on the rock, what is growing on the rock (IE, sps, sponges, etc) or what hitch hikers you get with the rock. This is really cosmetic.

What matters is how porous the rock is and how "room" is available for the anaerobic bacteria to populate.

100 lbs of porous "dead" rock in my book is better then 100 lbs of "premium-great looking" typical live rock that is dense! This is from a NITRATE standpoint which is the reason to add "additional" live rock to the system besides looks and protective places for your fish/corals (aquascaping).

Without knowing the type of rock already in the tank or the type of "base rock" added I think it's a little unfair to say it doesn't count.

Carlo

Live rock already has the ability to process (actively filter) the water and denitrify it. Base rock doesn't, but may do so later. This can take up to 6 months, which I stated above. Some have mistakenly counted all their rock from the get go, and then add their livestock based on that assumption. Nitrates skyrocket and don't come down.

We had a club member do just that. He filled his tank with a ton of base rock, and got a very small amount of LR to seed it. It turned out he only had 10% live rock. Then he proceeded to buy every fish he liked on a regular basis. Any time a fish went up for sale on our forum, he was first to strike. He loved fish, and the variety available. His nitrates were always super high and he finally started a thread asking how to lower them. It was then that we realized he had no real filtration going in the tank, because of all that base rock. (Plus he really had too many fish, and had to give some up.)

I like the look of LR, sure. But the reason I only use LR is because it is my natural filtration and in that area I simply won't skimp. If I had to use base rock, I'd then assume it wasn't doing anything for about 6 months, and stock the tank lightly and wait.

Neptune777 · 07/08/2007, 01:33 PM

IMO too much stock is placed on "live" rock. I prefer base rock because it will provide all the benefits of live rock minus all the unwanted hitchhikers. The only trick is to be patient as melev stated but in the long run it will pay off!

Base rock will do everything live rock does at a fraction of the cost.....you will still eventually get pods, corraline, and denitrifying bacteria as you introduce corals and livestock into your system. Bacteria breed/divide faster than anything...base rock becomes "live" rock in short order.

FYI, I am not talking about solid limestone or some other actual rock sold as base rock. I am referring to old dead coral base rock, or the rock that looks exactly like "live" rock but not kept in water.

Neptune777 · 07/08/2007, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by melev
Live rock already has the ability to process (actively filter) the water and denitrify it. Base rock doesn't, but may do so later. This can take up to 6 months, which I stated above. Some have mistakenly counted all their rock from the get go, and then add their livestock based on that assumption. Nitrates skyrocket and don't come down.

We had a club member do just that. He filled his tank with a ton of base rock, and got a very small amount of LR to seed it. It turned out he only had 10% live rock. Then he proceeded to buy every fish he liked on a regular basis. Any time a fish went up for sale on our forum, he was first to strike. He loved fish, and the variety available. His nitrates were always super high and he finally started a thread asking how to lower them. It was then that we realized he had no real filtration going in the tank, because of all that base rock. (Plus he really had too many fish, and had to give some up.)

I like the look of LR, sure. But the reason I only use LR is because it is my natural filtration and in that area I simply won't skimp. If I had to use base rock, I'd then assume it wasn't doing anything for about 6 months, and stock the tank lightly and wait.

I would bet that he would have experienced the same issues with all "live" rock......stocking too fast will create an unbalance in any system. I wouldn't attribute his issues to the base rock vs. live rock but rather improper cycling and stocking. Who knows how much he was feeding as well....Just my opinions based on your example.

kwaters · 07/08/2007, 02:15 PM

I made some DIY base rock....it's been about 2 months and it is still "curing" in a separate container. I used a 50/50 mix of water softener salt and cement, then once it semi-set, I used a small metal rod and poked the heck out of it.

There were a few pieces that had a lot of "weight" to them, those I tossed. The others are very porous and amazingly light weight. I will be excited to eventually add them to the tank.

Currently, I have about 65 lbs of LR in the tank, about 45 lbs of DIY base will be added, plus, I will add another 50 or so of Fiji LR in the future.

I am very lightly stocked as of now, my parameters are holding fine, and will not add anymore fish until I get my rock in check!

Thanks again Melev for your words of wisdom.

07/07/2007, 06:45 PM	#1
coryjac0b Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Metairie, LA Posts: 823	what to test for to know base rock is cured? what should i test for to see if my base rock is cured? ammonia? nitrates?

07/07/2007, 07:07 PM	#2
figuerres Registered Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Plant City,FL,USA Posts: 1,339 Blog Entries: 15	both of them.... just like a tank you are watching for a cycle. that and look to see if anything is "growing" like sponges or coraline alge, if they are growing and the amo and nit are zero then you are good. __________________ Denny, Geek of all things... I guess I could fit the phrase "inquiring minds want to know..." :-) Current Tank Info: 150 reef tank underway, getting it stocked

07/08/2007, 01:33 PM	#13
Neptune777 Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,700	IMO too much stock is placed on "live" rock. I prefer base rock because it will provide all the benefits of live rock minus all the unwanted hitchhikers. The only trick is to be patient as melev stated but in the long run it will pay off! Base rock will do everything live rock does at a fraction of the cost.....you will still eventually get pods, corraline, and denitrifying bacteria as you introduce corals and livestock into your system. Bacteria breed/divide faster than anything...base rock becomes "live" rock in short order. FYI, I am not talking about solid limestone or some other actual rock sold as base rock. I am referring to old dead coral base rock, or the rock that looks exactly like "live" rock but not kept in water. Last edited by Neptune777; 07/08/2007 at 01:43 PM.

07/08/2007, 02:15 PM	#15
kwaters Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Newberg, Oregon Posts: 364	I made some DIY base rock....it's been about 2 months and it is still "curing" in a separate container. I used a 50/50 mix of water softener salt and cement, then once it semi-set, I used a small metal rod and poked the heck out of it. There were a few pieces that had a lot of "weight" to them, those I tossed. The others are very porous and amazingly light weight. I will be excited to eventually add them to the tank. Currently, I have about 65 lbs of LR in the tank, about 45 lbs of DIY base will be added, plus, I will add another 50 or so of Fiji LR in the future. I am very lightly stocked as of now, my parameters are holding fine, and will not add anymore fish until I get my rock in check! Thanks again Melev for your words of wisdom. __________________ Pacific North West Marine Aquarium Society (PNWMAS)-Secretary Kris Waters Current Tank Info: 110 gallon tall

07/07/2007, 07:43 PM	#3
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	Test for pH as well if you are making your own base rock. If the pH is way high, it is too soon to use it.

07/07/2007, 08:11 PM	#4
coryjac0b Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Metairie, LA Posts: 823	i bought some rock from marcorocks.com. i've done 100% water changes on it about 3 times with ro water. the first time the water was brown, this last time it was almost clear a little haizy brown. i did a 100% water change with ro water, i have a maxi-mod powerhead in there so theres good water movement, should i be able to check it tommorrow and get an accurate reading?

07/07/2007, 08:18 PM	#5
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	I would think so. Several members from DFWMAS are using it. Just remember that base rock is merely rock and will not count toward your natural filtration. If you have a 220g reef with 100lbs of base rock and 100 lbs of LR, you are nowhere close to the 1.5lbs of LR per gallon that you need for natural filtration. Base rock can become live but it can take about 6 months to get to that point. And it comes down to the density of the stone too.

07/07/2007, 08:23 PM	#6
coryjac0b Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Metairie, LA Posts: 823	i do have a 220g, and right now i have about 150lbs of LR, and im adding about 70 lbs of base rock.

07/07/2007, 08:30 PM	#7
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	I'd add another 100lbs of LR, but that's just me.

07/07/2007, 09:04 PM	#8
coryjac0b Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Metairie, LA Posts: 823	i most probably will, but finances won't let me ATM.

07/07/2007, 09:59 PM	#9
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	Totally understandable. I just wanted to make sure you don't count it as 220lbs of LR and rely on it to care for your livestock as if it was. Others have made that mistake.

07/08/2007, 05:41 AM	#10
cayars Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Bordentown, New Jersey Posts: 653	Why would you not count it as 220 lbs melev? From the standpoint of nitrate reduction (main reason for rock) the type of rock you add doesn't really matter much. It doesn't make much difference how much corolline algae is on the rock, what is growing on the rock (IE, sps, sponges, etc) or what hitch hikers you get with the rock. This is really cosmetic. What matters is how porous the rock is and how "room" is available for the anaerobic bacteria to populate. 100 lbs of porous "dead" rock in my book is better then 100 lbs of "premium-great looking" typical live rock that is dense! This is from a NITRATE standpoint which is the reason to add "additional" live rock to the system besides looks and protective places for your fish/corals (aquascaping). Without knowing the type of rock already in the tank or the type of "base rock" added I think it's a little unfair to say it doesn't count. Carlo

07/08/2007, 07:38 AM	#11
jlo0218 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Durham, NC Posts: 52	you can also smell it. uncured rock smells like ***