a few questions

nate9 · 07/10/2007, 01:04 PM

1. I am setting up my 55 gallon and am going to use a sump which i plan to make out of a 20 gallon long and was wondering if this order sounded correct for the flow of water: first through the protein skimmer, baffles, a refugium, more baffles, and finally the return pump.

2. I was looking in to pumps and overflows and just to clearify this my flow rate ont he overflow and pump do not have to be equal but the pump flow must be less then the overflow rate?

3. How are the Quiet One pumps? reliable?

4. I've heard mixed reviews on the coralife needle wheel super skimmer form my reef keeping friends what are your opions?

Thanks for any help

marduc · 07/10/2007, 01:34 PM

1) yes.. you want the skimmer to get first access top the dirtiest water possible.

2) yes, If the pump returns more than the drain can handle.. you get a flood

3) from past experience reliable, I have not used one (Quiet One) in years though

4) never used the coralife, but IMO either a Euroreef, or an Aqua-C is the way to go, you don't want to skimp on your skimmer, and should get one rated for a larger tank than you have, it is better to overskim and be able to throttle back than to underskim and not meet the needs.

dcombs44 · 07/10/2007, 01:37 PM

I use a quiet one 6000 as a pump for my closed loop. It's fairly quiet, but has trouble restarting after the power is cut to it. It runs pretty hot, and seemed to have quite a bit of headloss when I used it in my sump. For an internal/external pump, I would rate it about 6.5 out of 10, but good for the cost.

Many people will suggest that you have the skimmer section after the refugium, as the fuge will thrive off of the dirtier water. That being said, my sump runs as follows: 1st chamber with heater and sponge for quarantine tank-->2nd chamber is the fuge AND my skimmer is here-->third chamber is a small section with some crushed live rock and another baffle-->4th chamber is the return pump.

dcombs44 · 07/10/2007, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by marduc
1) yes.. you want the skimmer to get first access top the dirtiest water possible.

The water will be equally as dirty at the end of the sump if nothing has acted to filter it. If you have macro algae in the refugium, it will also help to suck up excess nutrients and should be trimmed back which will all help with nutrient export.

marduc · 07/10/2007, 02:11 PM

First as a disclaimer my overflow doubles as my refugium, so it does have first crack at the dirty water, however this is due to design, not efficacy.

Ideally the water that flows to the sump is the water from the topmost layer of the display, it is this air/water interface (this is why a skimmer works) that attracts the non-polar and for the most part complex organics. Your fats, lipids, proteins and oils. Having your refugium in front of the skimmer, ESPECIALLY baffled will disallow these to even make it to the skimmer, and instead they will potentially accumulate as a film over the refugium portion of the tank.

Nitrates, nitrites, and phospates are highly polar ions, and as such are not readily skimmed out of the water column. It is the complex organics bound to NITROGEN, and PHOSPHORUS which enable their export via the bubble column. Post skimmer you will be left with a lowered concentration of the complex organics, and have much more ionic species (non-organically bound phospates, nitrites, nitrates), these simpler more ionic compounds are more readily uptook by bacteria. algae ect. than the complex ones.

What is skimming

nate9 · 07/10/2007, 03:03 PM

wow, thank you for all the information, and i would love to have a euroreef or aqua-c believe me but unfortunatly i am a 16 year old on a tight budget so i do not think i can afford one. Would you recommend a mag-drive pump over the Quiet One (is it worth the extra buck?)

scarter · 07/10/2007, 07:13 PM

I would go quiet one over the mag
IMO

Nanz · 07/11/2007, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by scarter
I would go quiet one over the mag
IMO

Quiet One 4000

I had a Mag and it was noisy. I keep it as a backup now.

der_wille_zur_macht · 07/11/2007, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dcombs44
The water will be equally as dirty at the end of the sump if nothing has acted to filter it. If you have macro algae in the refugium, it will also help to suck up excess nutrients and should be trimmed back which will all help with nutrient export.

Somewhat true, but not the whole story. Think of it this way: The protein skimmer is really good at taking out "big organics," i.e. things that haven't broken down too much.

A 'fuge is best at taking out "small organics" i.e. stuff that is pretty much all the way broken down.

So regardless of which transport mechanism is better, IMHO the skimmer should be first. You want the 'fuge to suck up all the little stuff the skimmer missed, vs. having bigger stuff sit around in the 'fuge and break down because it went there before it got skimmed. The 'fuge can live off the skimmer's leftovers, but a skimmer won't do too well with a 'fuge's leftovers.

Oh, another thought. If the sump/'fuge is going to be small and have a relatively high flow rate, you might want the skimmer compartment and the 'fuge separated so they each have their own "leg" of flow. In my experience, smaller 'fuges don't do too well with lots of flow through them. So, you could put the skimmer compartment on one side, the return pump in the middle, and the 'fuge on the other side. Then, let the overflow water enter the skimmer compartment and overflow into the return pump compartment. Split your return flow so that a very small percentage of it is directed right over into the 'fuge compartment, which then overflows back into the return pump compartment. Alternately, put a powerhead in the return compartment with a bit of tubing to feed the 'fuge.

der_wille_zur_macht · 07/11/2007, 09:40 AM

PS - as far as skimming on a 55, I really like the AquaC Remora/Urchin. You can get them really cheaply in the classifieds if you take your time looking, and they are state of the art as far as technology is concerned.

It's probably a hair undersized for a 55 that's stocked to the limit, though.

nate9 · 07/11/2007, 10:16 AM

ok thanks, ive looked into the AquaC skimmers and i have been recommended them multpiple times so i think i am going to spend the extra dollar on this one. Would i be ok with the: AquaC Urchin Protein Skimmer with Maxi-Jet 1200 Pump? it is rated for i believe up to 75 gallons but we all know how accurate those ratings are.

Also i have looked at the sump design u discribed der_wille_zur_macht on melvs reef and i do like it i just have to study it a bit more to understand the plumbing i need.

and by the way this is going to be for the most part a FOWLR

07/10/2007, 01:04 PM	#1
nate9 Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Ellicott City, MD Posts: 96	a few questions 1. I am setting up my 55 gallon and am going to use a sump which i plan to make out of a 20 gallon long and was wondering if this order sounded correct for the flow of water: first through the protein skimmer, baffles, a refugium, more baffles, and finally the return pump. 2. I was looking in to pumps and overflows and just to clearify this my flow rate ont he overflow and pump do not have to be equal but the pump flow must be less then the overflow rate? 3. How are the Quiet One pumps? reliable? 4. I've heard mixed reviews on the coralife needle wheel super skimmer form my reef keeping friends what are your opions? Thanks for any help

07/10/2007, 01:37 PM	#3
dcombs44 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 2,913	I use a quiet one 6000 as a pump for my closed loop. It's fairly quiet, but has trouble restarting after the power is cut to it. It runs pretty hot, and seemed to have quite a bit of headloss when I used it in my sump. For an internal/external pump, I would rate it about 6.5 out of 10, but good for the cost. Many people will suggest that you have the skimmer section after the refugium, as the fuge will thrive off of the dirtier water. That being said, my sump runs as follows: 1st chamber with heater and sponge for quarantine tank-->2nd chamber is the fuge AND my skimmer is here-->third chamber is a small section with some crushed live rock and another baffle-->4th chamber is the return pump. __________________ Current Setup: 10 Gallon Skimmerless Zoanthid Tank Lighting: Single 175 Watt Metal Halide (14,000 K Hamilton Lamp) Filtration: 10 gallon sump/refugium and Phosban Reactor Return: Mag Drive 700 Controller: ReefKeeper Lite (Basic Version) Circulation: TBD Age of System: Build is in Progress

07/10/2007, 02:11 PM	#5
marduc Registered Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tampa, Fl. Posts: 780	First as a disclaimer my overflow doubles as my refugium, so it does have first crack at the dirty water, however this is due to design, not efficacy. Ideally the water that flows to the sump is the water from the topmost layer of the display, it is this air/water interface (this is why a skimmer works) that attracts the non-polar and for the most part complex organics. Your fats, lipids, proteins and oils. Having your refugium in front of the skimmer, ESPECIALLY baffled will disallow these to even make it to the skimmer, and instead they will potentially accumulate as a film over the refugium portion of the tank. Nitrates, nitrites, and phospates are highly polar ions, and as such are not readily skimmed out of the water column. It is the complex organics bound to NITROGEN, and PHOSPHORUS which enable their export via the bubble column. Post skimmer you will be left with a lowered concentration of the complex organics, and have much more ionic species (non-organically bound phospates, nitrites, nitrates), these simpler more ionic compounds are more readily uptook by bacteria. algae ect. than the complex ones. What is skimming Last edited by marduc; 07/10/2007 at 02:40 PM.

07/10/2007, 07:13 PM	#7
scarter Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Baltimore Posts: 605	I would go quiet one over the mag IMO __________________ My name is Shane and I am a reefaholic, I have a disease and they don't know what to call it. Current Tank Info: what tank?

07/11/2007, 09:40 AM	#10
der_wille_zur_macht Team RC Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NY Posts: 17,749	PS - as far as skimming on a 55, I really like the AquaC Remora/Urchin. You can get them really cheaply in the classifieds if you take your time looking, and they are state of the art as far as technology is concerned. It's probably a hair undersized for a 55 that's stocked to the limit, though. __________________ Inconveniencing marine life since 1992 "It is my personal belief that reef aquaria should be thriving communities of biodiversity, representative of their wild counterparts, and not merely collections of pretty specimens growing on tidy clean rock shelves covered in purple coralline algae." (Eric Borneman)

07/10/2007, 01:34 PM	#2
marduc Registered Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tampa, Fl. Posts: 780	1) yes.. you want the skimmer to get first access top the dirtiest water possible. 2) yes, If the pump returns more than the drain can handle.. you get a flood 3) from past experience reliable, I have not used one (Quiet One) in years though 4) never used the coralife, but IMO either a Euroreef, or an Aqua-C is the way to go, you don't want to skimp on your skimmer, and should get one rated for a larger tank than you have, it is better to overskim and be able to throttle back than to underskim and not meet the needs.

07/10/2007, 03:03 PM	#6
nate9 Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Ellicott City, MD Posts: 96	wow, thank you for all the information, and i would love to have a euroreef or aqua-c believe me but unfortunatly i am a 16 year old on a tight budget so i do not think i can afford one. Would you recommend a mag-drive pump over the Quiet One (is it worth the extra buck?)

07/11/2007, 10:16 AM	#11
nate9 Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Ellicott City, MD Posts: 96	ok thanks, ive looked into the AquaC skimmers and i have been recommended them multpiple times so i think i am going to spend the extra dollar on this one. Would i be ok with the: AquaC Urchin Protein Skimmer with Maxi-Jet 1200 Pump? it is rated for i believe up to 75 gallons but we all know how accurate those ratings are. Also i have looked at the sump design u discribed der_wille_zur_macht on melvs reef and i do like it i just have to study it a bit more to understand the plumbing i need. and by the way this is going to be for the most part a FOWLR