cycling tank question

gusto1 · 07/17/2007, 06:48 AM

I'm upgrading from a 75 FOWLR to a 150 gallon with a 30 gallon sump, I started the new tank with (30 gallons from my existing tank the rest new water ( RO/DI), I used bio-spira, which I know some people like and some don't, I have to say I have had good results ( knock wood) so far. My ammonia had a tiny spike for one day, my nitrites had a tiny spike for 2 days, now the tank has been running for about a little over a week. my question is when should I start using my protein skimmer and I have 1 fish in there so far which had a little ich, I raised the temp to 86, lowered the salinity, and gave garlic and almost all is gone just one or two little pieces. when will it be safe to start putting in the rest of my live rock and the other fish from the other tank

Eskie · 07/17/2007, 10:45 AM

How much rock do you have in the tank?

I do know that people have had luck with bio Spira, but it failed in my FW tank, and, following it's directions, I had fully stocked the tank the same day. Needless to say, I had the 8 week cycle from H*** changing water twice a day, but didn't lose anyone. Still I did the fish no big favor putting them (and me) through that experience.

When you use an additive like that, or, when starting a new tank, your bacterial population will only grow proportionally to the "food" it has available. One fish in 150 G is not much of a bio-load, and you probably will lose much of the bacterial population you need through starvation. That's also why I asked about the rock you're using. If it's cycled rock from your 75 G, you're already cycled and the Bio Spira was a nice, expensive, but ultimately unhelpful addition. If you only transfered over some water, then all you would have in that tank after the water addition would be the Bio Spira bacteria. Nitrifying bacteria do not flat in your tank water. they attach to surfaces (your rock, sand, and even tank walls have your nitrifying bacteria on them held in a bio-film).

Of greatest concern is your fish with ich. Even if you treat with hyposalinity and heat just like in a QT (although I'm not really convinced heat is the way to go with marine fish), you are faced with the problem of ich remaining in the tank, as a host (the fish) is still there. Your best bet is pull the fish, use a standard, plain QT, and leave your brand new 150 G fallow for 6-8 weeks to eliminate the possibility of establishing a new tank which may spread ich to all your new additions/transfers. No fish, no completed life cycle, starvation, and elimination of recurrence.

By the same reasoning, I'd leave your fish and rock where they are until you have left sufficient time for the tank to no longer be a repository of ich. Once the 6-8 weeks are up, I think it would be reasonable to transfer your LR over with the remainder of your stock. The Bio Spira bacteria you added will be long gone by then, but there's no harm (other than financial) as your LR will be bringing over all the bacteria needed for your fish. If you plan to add additional LR, just cure it before mixing it in the same tank as your current rock so you don't overload your bio-filter, and you're set. The possibility of using the 150 G to cure new rock before transferring all your stock would normally sound good to me, but with a tank known to contain ich, which you're leaving fallow to clear it, I personally would be leery of doing that. True, no fish are present during the curing process, so you have broken the life cycle, but I would feel uneasy starting out like that. Your fish already have a happy home. your infected fish will have been fully treated, and you don't need the worry of starting out on a bad foot.

BTW, the fish brought ich with it from somewhere, presumably your current 75 G. I would really check your remaining stock out very carefully before transporting that headache over with them into their new, larger home.

Good luck.

gusto1 · 07/17/2007, 11:36 AM

Thank you for response,
the live rock I have in the 150 gallon is about 40 lbs of base and 40 lbs of live rock from my existing tank, I still have about another 50 to 60 lbs in the existing tank, that I will eventually transfer over. the fish with ich was not from my existing tank. all the fish in the 75 gallon are fine

07/17/2007, 06:48 AM	#1
gusto1 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 622	cycling tank question I'm upgrading from a 75 FOWLR to a 150 gallon with a 30 gallon sump, I started the new tank with (30 gallons from my existing tank the rest new water ( RO/DI), I used bio-spira, which I know some people like and some don't, I have to say I have had good results ( knock wood) so far. My ammonia had a tiny spike for one day, my nitrites had a tiny spike for 2 days, now the tank has been running for about a little over a week. my question is when should I start using my protein skimmer and I have 1 fish in there so far which had a little ich, I raised the temp to 86, lowered the salinity, and gave garlic and almost all is gone just one or two little pieces. when will it be safe to start putting in the rest of my live rock and the other fish from the other tank __________________ Gus Current Tank Info: IM Fusion 20 Gallon

07/17/2007, 11:36 AM	#3
gusto1 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 622	Thank you for response, the live rock I have in the 150 gallon is about 40 lbs of base and 40 lbs of live rock from my existing tank, I still have about another 50 to 60 lbs in the existing tank, that I will eventually transfer over. the fish with ich was not from my existing tank. all the fish in the 75 gallon are fine __________________ Gus Current Tank Info: IM Fusion 20 Gallon

07/17/2007, 10:45 AM	#2
Eskie Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 58	How much rock do you have in the tank? I do know that people have had luck with bio Spira, but it failed in my FW tank, and, following it's directions, I had fully stocked the tank the same day. Needless to say, I had the 8 week cycle from H*** changing water twice a day, but didn't lose anyone. Still I did the fish no big favor putting them (and me) through that experience. When you use an additive like that, or, when starting a new tank, your bacterial population will only grow proportionally to the "food" it has available. One fish in 150 G is not much of a bio-load, and you probably will lose much of the bacterial population you need through starvation. That's also why I asked about the rock you're using. If it's cycled rock from your 75 G, you're already cycled and the Bio Spira was a nice, expensive, but ultimately unhelpful addition. If you only transfered over some water, then all you would have in that tank after the water addition would be the Bio Spira bacteria. Nitrifying bacteria do not flat in your tank water. they attach to surfaces (your rock, sand, and even tank walls have your nitrifying bacteria on them held in a bio-film). Of greatest concern is your fish with ich. Even if you treat with hyposalinity and heat just like in a QT (although I'm not really convinced heat is the way to go with marine fish), you are faced with the problem of ich remaining in the tank, as a host (the fish) is still there. Your best bet is pull the fish, use a standard, plain QT, and leave your brand new 150 G fallow for 6-8 weeks to eliminate the possibility of establishing a new tank which may spread ich to all your new additions/transfers. No fish, no completed life cycle, starvation, and elimination of recurrence. By the same reasoning, I'd leave your fish and rock where they are until you have left sufficient time for the tank to no longer be a repository of ich. Once the 6-8 weeks are up, I think it would be reasonable to transfer your LR over with the remainder of your stock. The Bio Spira bacteria you added will be long gone by then, but there's no harm (other than financial) as your LR will be bringing over all the bacteria needed for your fish. If you plan to add additional LR, just cure it before mixing it in the same tank as your current rock so you don't overload your bio-filter, and you're set. The possibility of using the 150 G to cure new rock before transferring all your stock would normally sound good to me, but with a tank known to contain ich, which you're leaving fallow to clear it, I personally would be leery of doing that. True, no fish are present during the curing process, so you have broken the life cycle, but I would feel uneasy starting out like that. Your fish already have a happy home. your infected fish will have been fully treated, and you don't need the worry of starting out on a bad foot. BTW, the fish brought ich with it from somewhere, presumably your current 75 G. I would really check your remaining stock out very carefully before transporting that headache over with them into their new, larger home. Good luck.