Hello

[Massengill]

I just started my mini-reef aquarium about 5 weeks ago.

30 gallon long
- wooden stand
- glass canopy

Current USA light
- 4 X 39w T-5 bulbs
-- 2 actinics
-- 2 10k
- cooling fan
- 3 LED lunar lights

Marineland Emperor Bio Wheel 400
150w heater
ZooMed wave maker powerhead

1st layer (bottom) base rock
2nd layer (middle) cured live rock
3rd layer (top) LPS and SPS

Inverts
- brown bubbletip anemone
- purple Condi
- long tentacle anemone
- feather duster
- 2 camelback shrimp
- snail

Soft Corals
- leather mushrooms
- finger coral
- orange tip green polyps

Hard Corals
- green bubble coral
- fox coral
- open brain coral

Fish
- true percula
- false percula
- pink skunk clown
- domino damsel
- 3 sripe damsel
- yellow tail blue damsel

Substrate
- 1/2 florida crushed coral 1/2 sand

Water condition
- 1.023 specific gravity
- 75 degrees
- ph 8.0
- gh 120-180
- kh 180-240

In the near future I plan on adding a Haddoni (saddle) carpet anemone and a black and white percula, then I can just sit back and enjoy it. Oh, and I also am thinking about a protein skimmer.

[Percula9]

With the amount of bioload in that tank I suggest you put a skimmer on it very soon.

[Massengill]

Yeah, I just hate looking at a dern skimmer hanging on the back of the tank collecting green slime in a cup, plus they aren't very cheap.

[kathainbowen]

Well, you should be regularly cleaning your collection cup instead of allowing the icky, green slime to build up!

I'd steer clear of the anemone in a small tank like that. Carpet anemones can grow to be rather large (like in the size range of a sandwich platek to give you a rough idea), if well cared for. In a smaller reef tank, a large anemone like that can just be havoc, easily stinging corals.

[Massengill]

From what I have researched the Haddoni (saddle) anemone is the smallest and easy to care for carpet. I read the average size is 10" most get to be about 8" in an aquarium and some get to be 12" in the wild.

[kathainbowen]

.... again, about the size of a sandwich plate, silly! Well, slightly larger than a sandwich plate if you get a larger specimen at around 10" to 12".

But, you have to bear in mind that anemones are mobile creatures and will often truck their way right across corals if they feel like it, stinging, injuring and occasionally killing other corals. If you didn't have the corals, I'd say go for it. In fact, if you didn't already have the fox, bubble, and brain, I'd still say go for it, since the polyps and leathers are easy to frag and preserve should the anemone badly injure another part of a colony.

[theatrus]

Anemones are very sensitive to water parameters.

What is up with the very large Alk/KH swing you have? What is your nitrate at?

You already have 2 anemones in that tank (not counting the condy). I personally would not add a third, and especially not a carpet. With the corals + anemone you wouldn't even have room

[kathainbowen]

Originally posted by kathainbowen
.... again, about the size of a sandwich plate, silly! Well, slightly larger than a sandwich plate if you get a larger specimen at around 10" to 12".

... okay, that's apparently twice the size of a sandwich plate, according to half of the dishes. The fine china had teeny-tiny sandwich plates (that I don't think a real sandwich could actually fit on- unless we're talking about itty-bitty things), while the everyday dishes of hers have sandwich plates that are about 8 inches in diameter.

So, perhaps that really wasn't a good comparison. Sorry.

[kathainbowen]

Originally posted by theatrus
Anemones are very sensitive to water parameters.

What is up with the very large Alk/KH swing you have? What is your nitrate at?

You already have 2 anemones in that tank (not counting the condy). I personally would not add a third, and especially not a carpet. With the corals + anemone you wouldn't even have room

Oh, wow, you're right. I hadn't even noticed the other anemones on that list. Eek! That's going to be a bloody warzone in there! Stinging nematocysts ahoy!

[Massengill]

Huh, really. Just from what I have researched the bubbletips were the most mobile anemones. My Bubble and long tentacle have not moved since I introduced them, neither has the condi. They both found suitable lighting and water movement areas in the tank and have settled in nicely. The condi and bubble both stay in the left side of the aquarium on the bottom under some live rock seperated by a piece of base rock. The long tentacle stays in the middle on the bottom, it buried it's base in a whole of a rock. The whole right side of the tank is empty. The corals are all on top of the live rock about 2/3rd up the back of the tank. Do the carpets move that much, I figured it would bury it's foot in the substrate and be pretty much fixed? As far as the GH and KH fluctuation goes, it does't fluctuate, I just can't tell exactly where it is at on the color chart. It is somewhere between those parameters (GH = 150 KH = 210) for example. All of my corals are small; for example the mushroom only has 3 polyps on it, the finger coral is only about 4" tall, the polyps are on a branch rock with 3 fingers and it is only about 5" tall and 3" wide. The brain is only about 2" tall by 3" wide, the bubble coral skeleton is only 1" X 1", the fox coral is about 1" by 3". The bubble-tip is probably a 3" specimen, the long tentacle is probably a 4" specimen. I plan on buying a small 5" carpet. My Percs do not go in the bubble or long tentacle, that's why I want to try a carpet. The Domino stays in the bubble and the skunk stays in the long tentacle. Thanks for all the input, I appreciate all the info.

[Massengill]

I just looked at the nitrates, it barely indicates on the color chart. They are not quite 0 but less than 20ppm. It only took 10 days to cycle the aquarium. It started developing brown algae within a few days, a few days ago green algae started to grow and is now overtaking the brown. I have to use my algae scraper every other day on the front and side glass. A thin film of green algae appears, if I don't scrape it that often (like wait a week) you can't even see through the front of the glass. I clean the pre-filter to the power head once a week and rinse my foam carbon packs every two weeks replacing them once a month. I just have dolemite in the trays for more surface area for bacteria.

[szwab]

To Reef Central
just an FYI my Haddoni is 15" easy. they are also fairly indescrimenite eaters mine has snacked on a purple tang in the past. might turn out to be a tad large for a 30 gal tank

[kathainbowen]

.... okay, let's back up a minute.

1.) Anemone mobility:
Many anemones can and do move. The different varieties of the bubble tip, long tentacle, sebae, heteractis, condy, and carpet anemones will move. It doesn't matter how much you want them to stay in a spot or how much you encourage it. Sure, there are tricks, but tricks are never absolute certains. If it feels like moving, an anemone will lift up and move, ever if you bury its foot in the sand. And anemones DO climb rockwork. Not all anemones are as apt to climb rocks as others (carpets do generally prefer sand, and bubbles to do seem more apt to stick to rocks), but this is not to say that anemones will not move onto surfaces they don't generally appreciate. This is why it's always recommended that all powerheads be well secured and covered before adding anemones (since it's always possibly that anemones will find the powerhead and get ripped up). Sometimes, like the heliofungia and fungia plates, anemones will also seem to gravitate towards one another once they realize there's something nearby that they don't like (Oh, yes, plates will slowly move! It's a bit creepy!). In addition to that, while they might be happen right now in their spot of choice, this does not mean that they will stay there forward. The nipping of fish, sudden addition of water (from either top-off of water change), a change in temperature, the approach of another anemone, and so many other factors can cause anemones to leave the security of their current spots.

2.) Anemones grow. Just because you got a small one does not mean it will stay small. Nor does it mean it will stay as one (anemones can and do split into multiple smaller offspring). The Georgia Aquarium has an absolutely unbelievably sized rose bubble tip anemone (which my Southern friend, Beth, and I eventually came to the conclusion, could only be described, size-wise, as "large-enough-to-eat-my-head.") Coral grow very slowly, but anemones can grow quite quickly, almost lightning speed when compared to stony varieties of corals.

3.) Re: Clowns hosting....
How long did you give them to try to host? Sometimes, it takes a while for clownfish to take to a host anemone. Given enough time, I've even seen pink skunk clowns take to condylactis anemones (it took six plus months for hosting to happen, but it was well worth it since condys don't always accept clownfish in captivity and vice-versa). You need to give them time, and more time than 5 weeks.

Are your clowns tank-raised? If so, it can take FAR more time, or hosting might NEVER occur. Tank-raised percula and ocellaris clownfish are two species which, for some odd reason, sometimes just never get the concept of going into an anemone. Any tank raised species might not go right for anemones (although, tank raised maroons, clarkiis, tomatos, and cinnamon clowns often seem to be unphased by this). Adding the anemones they naturally host in might help this, but, if they are tank raised and never show an interest in hosting behavior with any anemone or anemone-like object over the course of six-months, it might never happen even with a prefered host.

Take the Heteractis magnifica. Both the percula and the ocellaris clownfish naturally host in this species of anemone (I believe this is the natural predisposition for the percula, while the carpet is the natural predisposition for the ocellaris- but this is often disputed since both species will use either anemone as a host, and since both species are easily confused). However, this species of anemone is very difficult to keep in the home aquarium and substitite anemones often suffice.

It's also possible that your pink skunk clown is also driving the percula and the ocellaris away from the anemones. Keeping multiple clownfish species in a smaller tank is a subject currently in dispute. There are many people in the Reef Discussion forum who have attested to success with keeping multiple clown species in a tank. However, there are perhaps just as many people who will argue that keeping multiple species of clowns in a tank will end in nothing but aggression and death. It's common to see accidental mixing of the ocellaris and percula (since they're very similar in build, coloring, and behavior), and the pink skunk isn't as aggressive of a clown as other species. However, the pink skunk could have already laid claims to the anemones (Even all of them! Clowns can sometimes be anemone possessive over more than one host, even attempting to drive humans away from anywhere near their anemone).



*phew*

Summary.... since I lost myself somewhere halfway through all that....
Give your clowns a little more time before adding another anemone. It might work out if you give them a little more time to settle into your tank and get used to the current anemones.

[Massengill]

Thanks, I think I will get rid of the skunk clowns and just keep the perculas. I guess I will not buy the carpet either. I never wanted the skunks, my wife liked them so I got them. I really like the 3 stripe damsel and the Domino too. I know the domino may take over the long tentacle, but I can't see myself removing it from the tank. Those are absolutely my favorite damsels, and perculas are my favorite clowns. I wil attempt to move my Codi to the other side of the tank and hope it stays there. I appreciate all the help.

[theatrus]

Sounds like a good plan. Best of luck to you

[fishquaria]

From my point of view, that's too many fish for such a small tank. You will have bio load problems and nitrate problems. Your inverts won't be very happy. It's un advisable to keep a carpet anemone in a tank that size let alone more than one anemone. Running a skimmer will just delay the problems you're bound to have. Plus don't mix more than one type of clowns in such a small tank. You'll have more problems than you can deal with. Eventually one of the clowns or two will die. You're then adding three more fish which are damels. You're going to have world war three in that tank of yours. The bioload is too high. You should limit the number of fish to 2 or three. If you must add a damsel, add it last. Mind you one damsel is recommended. More than one and you will have problems.

With all those lights, you will need more than one cooling fan. Don't use bio wheels as the cause high nitrate levels which will affect inverts.

IF this tank is up and running please post some pictures. All in all that's too many things for a thirty gallon tank. It's a ticking time bomb.