Nitrate levels

specopsteam · 09/27/2007, 07:50 AM

Does anyone have any fresh ideas about how i can get my nitrate levels down. They are at 30 PPM in my 55 gal tank which has been stocked for about a month. I have tried 15% water changes, I have tried to reduce the amount of food that goes in the tank. I have Live rock in the tank about 30 pounds of it so far. Could this be what ive read about when it comes to canister filters? or is there some other cause? Im out of ideas on how to get this level down.

I dont feel like the pet store in town is giving me very good advise beause im having more problems with what they tell me and they are only cleared up by people like you helping me

NirvanaFan · 09/27/2007, 07:55 AM

How often do you clean your canister filter? If you have a sump, try throwing in some macroalgae such as chaeto. You should probably clean your canister filter out every two weeks. They tend to be nitrate factories. 30 pounds of live rock isn't that much for a 55 gallon tank. I'd probably try to get about 20 pounds more.

specopsteam · 09/27/2007, 08:02 AM

I have not cleaned my either of my two filters yet. the local pet store advised me not to this early in the game. I am new to the saltwater world so i dont have a sump or anthing like that just hang on the back wet/dry and a canister filter. What is the proper way to clean a canister filter? what do i clean and with what? there is no need to repleace any of the filters so soon correct

jsr · 09/27/2007, 08:20 AM

Anything that traps waste will cause Nitrate spikes if not cleaned regularly. I run poly pads in my sump to catch some of the larger partials that my skimmer will not take in and change them at least once a week or when they are noticeably brown.

CruzinKim · 09/27/2007, 08:21 AM

I hate to say that your LFS may have stirred you completely the wrong way. Others can chime in if I am incorrect. Looking at your setup, the undergravel filter, canister filters and hob wet/dry could all be nitrate factories on our system. I would also add 30lbs more of live rocks.

Typically, in order to keep nitrates low, you need a protein skimmer to remove them before the waste becomes nitrates, but for those that escape, you need something to remove them and this is usually regular water changes and a refugium with macro algae or a denitrator.

You should clean out the canister filters weekly, by thoroughly rinsing the sponges in water leftover from your water changes, so the dirt is removed without killing the beneficial bacteria. I would personally get rid of the undergravel filter as you may have a 1/2" of waster under there that you cannot even get to to clean out. Again, others may chime in withtheir experience.

specopsteam · 09/27/2007, 08:49 AM

thats the feeling that i was getting because it all seemed to go agains what i have read on here and im paying for it now. I will be getting a 75 gal tank here shortly and i plan to drill that and use my current 55 gall as a refugium. Does anyone have suggestions on how to not make this same mistake again. I plan on getting rid of all my filtration systems and using LS and Bioballs along with rock and alge in the refugium does that seem like a workable plan?

papagimp · 09/27/2007, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by specopsteam
I plan on getting rid of all my filtration systems and using LS and Bioballs along with rock and alge in the refugium does that seem like a workable plan?

Leave out the bioballs and it sounds workable. bioballs will act just as the canister, HOB, and UGF do, nitrate factory potential.

Dr Begalke · 09/27/2007, 11:44 AM

Google RC for nitrates

How come no one browses or searches the threads anymore?

There are only 1640 (and rapidly counting) threads on this topic...

arts007 · 09/27/2007, 12:49 PM

Give this a read, some of the options help for some and others do not, but it will give you an idea of what your up against and some of the options to combat it.

CruzinKim · 09/27/2007, 03:44 PM

No, no bioballs. When the detritus collects on the bioballs, it's very difficult to clean off, so another nitrate factory.

Paul B · 09/27/2007, 04:34 PM

A few things, in a tank as new as yours a nitrate reading of 30 is not that bad. That being said, you should have more rock and if you want to run the canister filters, do so with the bio balls inside. Take the bio balls out of your wet dry. When you run a wet dry the way it was designed to run it is very efficient but as you found out you don't have enough rock to process all of the nitrate that the bio balls are producing. They will not be as efficient in your canister but they won't hurt as much either. The canister will basically be used as circulation.
The UG filter should not be run the way the instructions that came with it says of the way your LFS told you to run it. You need to run it backwards and as slow as you can with a filter like a sponge on the intake. Most powerheads are reversable.
If you will be keeping the UG filter in there and running it in reverse, you will occasionally need the canister filter to stir up the gravel and clean the gravel. If you keep the UG filter in there the way you have it, you are in for big problems.
Don't use that filter floss that came with your filters for anything except when you stir the gravel to clean it (every 3 or 4 months)
I hope you are using gravel with that UG and not sand.
If you decide to go without the UG filter and use sand, forget what I said about stiring it up. That is a different system.
You also need to do a lot of reading.
Good luck.
Paul

edandsandy · 09/27/2007, 04:36 PM

I agree, no bioballs or as we call them "nitrateballs!"

loosecannon · 09/28/2007, 07:26 AM

Cruzinkim, I`m going to chime in here. You are 100% right! I was wandering whan some one was going to read that this poor guy has a , Undergravel 1970 , canister 1980, wet-dry 1990. Specopsteam, take out avry thing but the rock! Get at list 30 lbs. moer. Go back to your lfs and put tham all behind bars!

specopsteam · 09/28/2007, 09:03 AM

And they told me it was state of the art! lol looks like i was steered in the wrong direction. What a nightmare now i have to rip it all apart and start over o well guess you have to learn one way or another

Mavrk · 09/28/2007, 12:13 PM

You don't mention substrate. Make sure you get sugar fine (oolitic) aragonite sand, NOT crushed coral.

Mavrk · 09/28/2007, 12:14 PM

Oh, and your bioload seems high for such a young tank.

Paul B · 09/28/2007, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Undergravel 1970 , canister 1980, wet-dry 1990. Specopsteam, take out avry thing but the rock! Get at list 30 lbs. moer. Go back to your lfs and put tham all behind bars!

Actually UG filters came out in the fiftees which is when I started using them. Come to think of it.... I still use one

specopsteam · 09/28/2007, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mavrk
You don't mention substrate. Make sure you get sugar fine (oolitic) aragonite sand, NOT crushed coral.

about this sand, I read somewhere that you should use different layers of different sized sand so that you can max your biomedia everything from suguar fine up to something like 2mm sand i cant remeber the exact specs but is that true or should i stick just with sugar fine aragonite sand?

seapug · 09/28/2007, 02:01 PM

different sand grades are preferred by different creatures, but the conventional wisdom nowadays is to use sugar fine sand because crap tends to settle on top of it, not down inside of it like it does with coral gravel, which can cause the waste issues. In the meantime, clean your canister filter ASAP if you haven't already. You'll probably be shocked at the muck it will have accumulated.

BurntOutReefer · 09/28/2007, 03:26 PM

nothing wrong with a UGF....(and in marine tanks RUGF).
I just stopped using mine.....

specopsteam · 09/28/2007, 04:47 PM

sugar fine (oolitic) aragonite sand

Anyone know any good places to buy this cheap and not get ripped off with sand from Toys R Us?

09/27/2007, 07:50 AM	#1
specopsteam Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Indiana Posts: 156	Nitrate levels Does anyone have any fresh ideas about how i can get my nitrate levels down. They are at 30 PPM in my 55 gal tank which has been stocked for about a month. I have tried 15% water changes, I have tried to reduce the amount of food that goes in the tank. I have Live rock in the tank about 30 pounds of it so far. Could this be what ive read about when it comes to canister filters? or is there some other cause? Im out of ideas on how to get this level down. I dont feel like the pet store in town is giving me very good advise beause im having more problems with what they tell me and they are only cleared up by people like you helping me Last edited by specopsteam; 09/27/2007 at 08:13 AM.

09/27/2007, 08:02 AM	#3
specopsteam Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Indiana Posts: 156	I have not cleaned my either of my two filters yet. the local pet store advised me not to this early in the game. I am new to the saltwater world so i dont have a sump or anthing like that just hang on the back wet/dry and a canister filter. What is the proper way to clean a canister filter? what do i clean and with what? there is no need to repleace any of the filters so soon correct __________________ There is no such thing as death only change RIP Duke I LOVE WILD TURKEY RARE BREED!!!!! Current Tank Info: 55 gal tank, Starting my 75 soon Last edited by specopsteam; 09/27/2007 at 08:10 AM.

09/27/2007, 08:20 AM	#4
jsr Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Cedar Park, TX Posts: 409	Anything that traps waste will cause Nitrate spikes if not cleaned regularly. I run poly pads in my sump to catch some of the larger partials that my skimmer will not take in and change them at least once a week or when they are noticeably brown. __________________ Just my grain of salt... Current Tank Info: 135G Oceanic Mixed, 4 x 140W VHO, Octopus NW200, 3 x Koralia 4's, 30G Sump, 140# Live Rock, 120# Live Sand, ATO

09/27/2007, 08:49 AM	#6
specopsteam Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Indiana Posts: 156	thats the feeling that i was getting because it all seemed to go agains what i have read on here and im paying for it now. I will be getting a 75 gal tank here shortly and i plan to drill that and use my current 55 gall as a refugium. Does anyone have suggestions on how to not make this same mistake again. I plan on getting rid of all my filtration systems and using LS and Bioballs along with rock and alge in the refugium does that seem like a workable plan? __________________ There is no such thing as death only change RIP Duke I LOVE WILD TURKEY RARE BREED!!!!! Current Tank Info: 55 gal tank, Starting my 75 soon

09/27/2007, 12:49 PM	#9
arts007 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 600	Give this a read, some of the options help for some and others do not, but it will give you an idea of what your up against and some of the options to combat it. __________________ Genius is 1 percent inspiration and 99% perspiration, which is why engineers sometimes smell really bad. Current Tank Info: 120g SPS reef tank. 2x 400 watt Reeflux 12k on lumenbrights

09/27/2007, 07:55 AM	#2
NirvanaFan Reef Ninja Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 4,280	How often do you clean your canister filter? If you have a sump, try throwing in some macroalgae such as chaeto. You should probably clean your canister filter out every two weeks. They tend to be nitrate factories. 30 pounds of live rock isn't that much for a 55 gallon tank. I'd probably try to get about 20 pounds more.

09/27/2007, 08:21 AM	#5
CruzinKim Moved On Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: If Not There, Then Here. Posts: 693	I hate to say that your LFS may have stirred you completely the wrong way. Others can chime in if I am incorrect. Looking at your setup, the undergravel filter, canister filters and hob wet/dry could all be nitrate factories on our system. I would also add 30lbs more of live rocks. Typically, in order to keep nitrates low, you need a protein skimmer to remove them before the waste becomes nitrates, but for those that escape, you need something to remove them and this is usually regular water changes and a refugium with macro algae or a denitrator. You should clean out the canister filters weekly, by thoroughly rinsing the sponges in water leftover from your water changes, so the dirt is removed without killing the beneficial bacteria. I would personally get rid of the undergravel filter as you may have a 1/2" of waster under there that you cannot even get to to clean out. Again, others may chime in withtheir experience.

09/27/2007, 11:44 AM	#8
Dr Begalke Moved On Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: OH Posts: 246	Google RC for nitrates How come no one browses or searches the threads anymore? There are only 1640 (and rapidly counting) threads on this topic...

09/27/2007, 03:44 PM	#10
CruzinKim Moved On Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: If Not There, Then Here. Posts: 693	No, no bioballs. When the detritus collects on the bioballs, it's very difficult to clean off, so another nitrate factory.

09/27/2007, 04:34 PM	#11
Paul B Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Long Island NY Posts: 15,549	A few things, in a tank as new as yours a nitrate reading of 30 is not that bad. That being said, you should have more rock and if you want to run the canister filters, do so with the bio balls inside. Take the bio balls out of your wet dry. When you run a wet dry the way it was designed to run it is very efficient but as you found out you don't have enough rock to process all of the nitrate that the bio balls are producing. They will not be as efficient in your canister but they won't hurt as much either. The canister will basically be used as circulation. The UG filter should not be run the way the instructions that came with it says of the way your LFS told you to run it. You need to run it backwards and as slow as you can with a filter like a sponge on the intake. Most powerheads are reversable. If you will be keeping the UG filter in there and running it in reverse, you will occasionally need the canister filter to stir up the gravel and clean the gravel. If you keep the UG filter in there the way you have it, you are in for big problems. Don't use that filter floss that came with your filters for anything except when you stir the gravel to clean it (every 3 or 4 months) I hope you are using gravel with that UG and not sand. If you decide to go without the UG filter and use sand, forget what I said about stiring it up. That is a different system. You also need to do a lot of reading. Good luck. Paul __________________ I used to get shocked when I put my hand in my tank. Then the electric eel went dead. Current Tank Info: 100 gal reef set up in 1971

09/27/2007, 04:36 PM	#12
edandsandy Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: NE Florida Posts: 2,380 Blog Entries: 2	I agree, no bioballs or as we call them "nitrateballs!" __________________ Sandy ><((((º>`•.¸¸.•><((((º>´¯`•><((((º> .¸¸.><((((º>•.¸. , . .•><((((º>.¸¸. Current Tank Info: 375 Reef, 4) Radion LED lights X30 pro, Apex Fusion, Octo Regal 300 E Skimmer, GEO 618 Calcium Reactor 2) Reeflo Snapper pumps, 2)50g refugium, 2) MP 40's

09/28/2007, 07:26 AM	#13
loosecannon Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: port kent Posts: 1,292	Cruzinkim, I`m going to chime in here. You are 100% right! I was wandering whan some one was going to read that this poor guy has a , Undergravel 1970 , canister 1980, wet-dry 1990. Specopsteam, take out avry thing but the rock! Get at list 30 lbs. moer. Go back to your lfs and put tham all behind bars! __________________ I like getting WET! Current Tank Info: 44gal. 40 gal. 75 gal. 30gal. and working on a 75gal. rigt

09/28/2007, 09:03 AM	#14
specopsteam Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Indiana Posts: 156	And they told me it was state of the art! lol looks like i was steered in the wrong direction. What a nightmare now i have to rip it all apart and start over o well guess you have to learn one way or another __________________ There is no such thing as death only change RIP Duke I LOVE WILD TURKEY RARE BREED!!!!! Current Tank Info: 55 gal tank, Starting my 75 soon

09/28/2007, 12:13 PM	#15
Mavrk Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: California - South Bay Area Posts: 2,775	You don't mention substrate. Make sure you get sugar fine (oolitic) aragonite sand, NOT crushed coral.

09/28/2007, 12:14 PM	#16
Mavrk Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: California - South Bay Area Posts: 2,775	Oh, and your bioload seems high for such a young tank.

09/28/2007, 02:01 PM	#19
seapug Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: 4980 ft. Posts: 7,954 Blog Entries: 1	different sand grades are preferred by different creatures, but the conventional wisdom nowadays is to use sugar fine sand because crap tends to settle on top of it, not down inside of it like it does with coral gravel, which can cause the waste issues. In the meantime, clean your canister filter ASAP if you haven't already. You'll probably be shocked at the muck it will have accumulated. __________________ insert clever saying here. Current Tank Info: 200 gallon custom Marineland DD peninsular tank. LPS dominated mixed reef. Previous 90 gallon mixed reef TOTM April 2009.

09/28/2007, 03:26 PM	#20
BurntOutReefer Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Granada Hills Posts: 4,376	nothing wrong with a UGF....(and in marine tanks RUGF). I just stopped using mine.....

09/28/2007, 04:47 PM	#21
specopsteam Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Indiana Posts: 156	sugar fine (oolitic) aragonite sand Anyone know any good places to buy this cheap and not get ripped off with sand from Toys R Us? __________________ There is no such thing as death only change RIP Duke I LOVE WILD TURKEY RARE BREED!!!!! Current Tank Info: 55 gal tank, Starting my 75 soon