best skimmer for up to $500

[Dwarf Seahorses]

Originally posted by Ewan
It's funny you mention this. I visit some forums in the UK and Germany, and the trend in Germany is toward efficient venturis. The UK and US are still working with needlewheels and mesh.

A point of reference would be the Fauna Marin Ultraskims. The Jet (venturi) version is popular in Deutschland, while there is more demand for the NW version in the UK and US. Fauna Marin cites that the Jet version is every bit as consistent and productive as the needlewheel version. The obvious benefit is cheaper replacement parts. There seems to be a greater understanding of what it takes to handle large volumes of air in a skimmer, and this just happens to fall at the same time that we're discovering efficient NW and meshwheel pumps.

Interesting times we live in. I've been in the hobby for about 12 years, and my first skimmer was airstone driven. To be honest, there has been very little innovation until just recently. Now quality manufacturers are re-examining old (proven) methods.

Pair a decent venturi with an appropriate-sized neck, a diffuser plate if needed, and you've got a powerful candidate. I've always been interested in reefkeeping on a worldwide scale, and some places are much farther ahead than others. I'll be interested to see if venturis are reborn in north america...

E.

Hello,

Funny isn't it? I personally don't think venturis will make a comeback in the US anytime soon, I think Americans (I too am one of them so no one take offense please) like to see all the bells and whistles and the "fashion" of new skimmers to take interest in older skimming technology.

I personally think Schuran makes the best venturi skimmers. Schuran builds everything out of the best acrylic and the quality and craftsmanship of everything they build is absolutely impeccable. Without a doubt, out of every European reef forum I have visited not a single person has had trouble with Schuran skimmers. Also, I believe the ratings they suggest (e.g. the jetskim 150 can handle 250 gallon tank) are realistic. Here's a link to Schuran's Aquaflotor Principle.

[Dwarf Seahorses]

EDIT: I meant to say will NOT make a comeback.

[pjf]

Originally posted by Dwarf Seahorses
Best skimmer for under $500? A Schuran Jetskim 150.

Nobody really uses them in the US but ask ANYONE who uses one and they'll tell you they are the best skimmer for the money, much better than deltec and H&S. People who see venturi automatically shoot it down but they obviously haven't seen a Schuran skimmer before.

Good observation. I do notice that along with the Schuran skimmer, the German Tunze skimmer and the Italian Elos skimmer use a refined Venturi principle.

Why is the Schuran better than the H&S and Deltec? On paper, the Schuran skimmers seem to draw relatively modest amounts of air for the advertised capacity. I'm not disagreeing. Everyone's just curious about a skimmer that is rarely marketed in the US.

[Dwarf Seahorses]

Originally posted by pjf
Good observation. I do notice that along with the Schuran skimmer, the German Tunze skimmer and the Italian Elos skimmer use a refined Venturi principle.

Why is the Schuran better than the H&S and Deltec? On paper, the Schuran skimmers seem to draw relatively modest amounts of air for the advertised capacity. I'm not disagreeing. Everyone's just curious about a skimmer that is rarely marketed in the US.

Hello,

Unfortunately I really can't prove why/how Schuran makes a better skimmer than Deltec and H&S. However, it is the experience of a friend who has a 150 gallon FOWLR tank that demonstrated the amount of skimmate a Schuran 150 pulled in comparison to a H&S internal skimmer rated for up to 225 gallons. The schuran pulled a little more than 1/3 skimmate than the H&S did in the same amount of time. Also, his water quality was significantly better with the Schuran than the H&S. I do not have the exact figures of his water chemistry, but he said "much better".

So, unofficially, the Schuran was 33% more "powerful" than the H&S skimmer and also $200 cheaper.

Scurhan even makes FRESHWATER skimmers, so you know they have to be good. They're the only ones who make freshwater skimmers that I know of.

If you google Schuran skimmer reviews or something similar you'll get a lot of European and Canadian reef forums. The posts on these forums speak for Schuran skimmers, quite impressive.

[RichConley]

Originally posted by Dwarf Seahorses
Hello,

Unfortunately I really can't prove why/how Schuran makes a better skimmer than Deltec and H&S. However, it is the experience of a friend who has a 150 gallon FOWLR tank that demonstrated the amount of skimmate a Schuran 150 pulled in comparison to a H&S internal skimmer rated for up to 225 gallons. The schuran pulled a little more than 1/3 skimmate than the H&S did in the same amount of time. Also, his water quality was significantly better with the Schuran than the H&S. I do not have the exact figures of his water chemistry, but he said "much better".

So, unofficially, the Schuran was 33% more "powerful" than the H&S skimmer and also $200 cheaper.

Scurhan even makes FRESHWATER skimmers, so you know they have to be good. They're the only ones who make freshwater skimmers that I know of.

If you google Schuran skimmer reviews or something similar you'll get a lot of European and Canadian reef forums. The posts on these forums speak for Schuran skimmers, quite impressive.

That could just be that the H&S was too big for his tank. A properly sized skimmer will outperform one that is too large.


Skimmers are simple. Assuming similar design, air draw is everything.

[bergzy]

Originally posted by RichConley
That could just be that the H&S was too big for his tank. A properly sized skimmer will outperform one that is too large.


Skimmers are simple. Assuming similar design, air draw is everything.

i agree with you on this one rich.

a properly sized skimmer is very important and i think that people are going more and more oversized 'thinking' they are going to get more skimming.

the hard part about buying a skimmer is understanding and believing the manafactuers claims. they are guidelines at best.

when they say 'rated for 200 gallons moderately stocked'. what is the 'moderately stocked' parameter determination?

it's too bad that manafactuers wont let you 'test drive' skimmers to see if you like them. heck, some top end skimmers cost as much as a good used car...well, good student used car anyway!

[Dwarf Seahorses]

Good observation.

The 150 gallon tank was stocked "averagely" but was fed quite heavily. So considering the bio-load of this FOWLR, it could be considered "heavily stocked".

The Schuran was rated for 250 gallons and the H&S for 225 gallons. As you can see, the ratings are quite similar. After researching extensively (not scientifically, from the standpoint of a hobbyist) on Canadian/European reef forums, most people using Schuran and H&S skimmers apply them on tank sizes suggested by the manufacturer with no problems or "under-skimming".

The research on Canadian/European forums and the real life experiences of a friend and a reef shop owner leads me to believe that A) both skimmers are very good and B) Schuran performs slightly better.

I'm not bashing H&S or Deltec, I'm just explaining what I've personally seen and how that leads me to believe Schuran makes a better skimmer than H&S or Deltec. I'm all for buying non-Schuran skimmers if they perform better and aren't outrageously overpriced, but that skimmer hasn't come along yet.

[mavgi]

Originally posted by RichConley
That could just be that the H&S was too big for his tank. A properly sized skimmer will outperform one that is too large.


Skimmers are simple. Assuming similar design, air draw is everything.

i have a lot of respect to your experience and knowledge but from my experience the result shown different :

i use the ER CS250 in my tank and now the BM250 i believe it's bigger... and i pull more then twice with this skimmer from the ER (wet or dry)both run on my 120 gallon tank .
more then that when i test the 2 skimmer in the sump to compare them .... both of them work and pull skimate and the BM didn't skim less....

[pjf]

FYI - The Singapore Reef Club has a thread discussing a Schuran 150 (1000 liters or 264 gallons) here:
http://www.sgreefclub.com/forum/inde...howtopic=40989

On a related thread, a user compared a Schuran with an H&S:
http://www.sgreefclub.com/forum/inde...ic=16812&st=90
A picture of the two skimmers is halfway down the webpage. At the bottom of the webpage, the user states that the H&S was twice as productive. Unfortunately, it is not clear which Schuran and H&S models were compared.

[Ewan]

I love that board. I've been lurking there for quite some time. Mostly reading equipment reviews, etc. I ought to sign up...

thanks for the links.

-E.

[Dwarf Seahorses]

Thanks for the link pjf.

That's the first side by side comparison that I've seen of a Schuran and a H&S. Looks like the H&S was "better" in the comparison, but again we're not sure on what models the H&S and Schuran was.

However, I'd like to see more than one comparison of the two skimmer before I change my mind on Schuran's. I've seen plenty of posts on Canadian/European forums where people say their Schuran performed better than their deltec and/or H&S.

Thanks again for the link, very informative.

[mnestroy]

How can a skimmer be oversized?

The skimmer itself doesn't know what size tank its attached to. If the skimmer is fed (a recirc model) 200GPH then its going to get 200gph skim if its attached to a 40gallon or a 500gallon....

I can understand a skimmer not being utilized due to it being more effecent than the provided bioload in the tank.

[Ewan]

This is true, mnestroy. Similar to watts-per gallon for lighting, which makes no sense whatsoever, not even as a guideline.

Perhaps it's a better assessment to assume that it takes a certain amount of organics for a skimmer to operate at it's best (?) Similar to the amount of salt in your water. The latest advancements in skimmers allow stable, consistent foam to be produced. Without the foam head collapsing frequently. Skimmers in tanks with very little in terms of waste to remove perform much differently what skimmers that are sized appropriately. If anyone wants to send me a bubbleking to test this theory, I'd be happy to.

Otherwise, with everything else, I tend to oversize BIG TIME (I drive a lifted nissan titan... lol). Maybe it's more than a waste of money when it comes to skimmers...

E.

[pjf]

Originally posted by Ewan
The latest advancements in skimmers allow stable, consistent foam to be produced. Without the foam head collapsing frequently.

What are these advances that allow stable consistent foam to be produced?

[Ewan]

I'll cite the bubble plate on the bubblekings...

It seems that manufacturers have done their research. If I'm not mistaken, a ton of air and water can be quite unpredictable, unless a certain flow is acheived. The BK, BM and Fauna Marin skimmers use this bubble plate to direct the flow of bubbles upward, as a nice homogeneous mixture. This relatively calm management of air and water results in the wastes going UP into the cup, and the water going down and out the outflow, minus some organics.

I had a downdraft that was pure chaos. It could wet skim well, but it was prone to overflows. External, internal, raised up, mod this, mod that, The thing drove me nuts. The bubbles were so chaotic inside that a stable foam was very rare. Large 'burbs' of air would occasionally destroy the foam head. Lots of air, lots of water, but it was as if the air and water wanted to separate immediately... At any cost.

I think design has a lot to do with it. Pumps are coming of age now too. I moded an eheim 1250 last week with enkamat, 3/4" outlet, and new venturi, and I can't believe how well it is working. 17 watts. With the air valve, I can run it at 18watts, which is what works the best for me. Thanks to some very talented people on this board and others, things are being tried, and results are being shared. Even Oliver P. and Klaus Jansen are sharing photos and information with the DIY enthusiasts.

Skimmers certainly have come a very long way recently.

[pjf]

I’m glad that you mentioned consistency in foam production. The bubble plate on the Bubble King skimmer may indeed contribute to its success. Unfortunately, the bubble plate on the similar Bubble Master skimmer has not kept it from being considered finicky and difficult to dial-in. I understand that the BM plate has larger holes and is not as refined as the one on the BK. Is the similarly designed Fauna Marin skimmer more successful with its bubble plate?

The impression is that mesh wheels and other advances that allow higher air-to-water ratios have contributed to more finicky skimmers. Perhaps other features are to blame and the Enkamat mesh may have nothing to do with the overflowing cups. Nevertheless, the perception is that some advances in foam production have increased its variability.

Consistent foam production is near the top of my list of attributes for a new skimmer. My understanding is that recirculating skimmers are more stable and consistent in general than the rest of the pack. The theory is that external recirculating skimmers are not impacted by sump turbulence and varying water levels. Is that your observation as well? In your opinion, what are the most consistent skimmers and why?

[Buddyboy]

Bumpity???

[USC-fan]

DAS ex-2

/thread