water flood

Chrigui · 10/01/2007, 04:54 AM

am using a jebo water pump (cheap product) from my sump to the tank for 6 months now...
and a tunze overflow box.

last week the power went off at night and the the water was flooded from the sump 25% of the water in tank was out. so, when the power is off the return pump uses the gravity i guess and it was doing the overflow's job.

is there and solution for this or any option should i look for when i go buy a new return pump?

crumbletop · 10/01/2007, 05:06 AM

It is probably not the return pump, but the return line. Make sure the outlet from the return line is close to the surface of the display so that not much water will back siphon through when the power is cut. You can also try drilling some small siphon break holes in the return line near the surface, but those can clog.

gowlover · 10/01/2007, 05:08 AM

Just drill a hole below your normal water line on your return line. This way if the power goes out and the water starts to go back into the sump, it will lose siphon due to the hole.

iwishtofish · 10/01/2007, 05:11 AM

A siphon probably occurred in your return line when your pump lost power. Many people drill a small hole ("siphon break") in their return outlet either right at or just below the water line in their display tank. This way, when the return pump stops and a siphon starts, the siphon breaks when the display tank water level drops below that hole.

This is also the main reason people don't keep the water level too high in their sumps - there needs to be room to accommodate the water that comes back down from both the return hose and the overflow in the event of a power loss.

Sorry to hear about your flood!

Chrigui · 10/01/2007, 05:12 AM

thanks guys warming my drill

gowlover · 10/01/2007, 05:12 AM

lol

Playa-1 · 10/01/2007, 05:18 AM

That sounds like a typical syphoning problem that you would see if your return lines were too deep into the tank without some type of a syphon break. A syphon break can be created by drilling a small hole at the base of the return nozzle near the surface of the water. The hole should be drilled so that the water from the tiny hole will go into the tank when the pump is powered up.
The way it would work is when the pump failed for some reason the main tank would begin to syphon into the sump. As soon as the water level were to reach the syphon break hole it would introduce air into the line and break the syphon and that should solve the syphoning issue on the return line.
It could also be several different issues and its hard to know without seeing a photo of the system or a diagram of how it is laid out. You need to leave enough room in the sump so that in the event of a power failure that your sump will be able to hold the water that backflows. Some people install check valves to try and prevent backflow issues but in my experience check valves will fail at some point and they are not a reliable solution.

iwishtofish · 10/01/2007, 05:20 AM

No prob - Just make sure that the hole you drill is big enough to break the siphon, but not bigger than necesssary. Drill it just below the water line (pull it out first

) if your pump is powerful, so water doesn't squirt around. I just started with a smaller hole and tested by killing the power to my pump. And yes, as crumbletop said, these holes can clog or be clogged by a critter (like a snail), so check it periodically! I actually have two holes drilled in mine.

ezrec · 10/01/2007, 08:03 AM

With all of these 'my pumps turned off, and there's water everywhere!" posts, I wonder...

... am I one of the few people that do a full-power-off test every time they change the plumbing or add top-off water?

crumbletop · 10/01/2007, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ezrec
With all of these 'my pumps turned off, and there's water everywhere!" posts, I wonder...

... am I one of the few people that do a full-power-off test every time they change the plumbing or add top-off water?

You may be. I tested my system when I first set it up, and I have a mark in the sump that topoff can't go above without being at risk for an overflow. Actually, I haven't needed that mark since I installed auto topoff about 2 years ago. Also, I have a split return line, and one of the returns is about 1" below the surface. That means the siphon break will be good and reliable. It is good to make sure you have enough room in your sump to avoid an overflow, but there really isn't a need to do a test that often

AZDesertRat · 10/01/2007, 10:58 AM

DO NOT rely on a drilled hole as a siphon break. If you are going to take the time to redo the plumbing do it right the first time and you will never need a drilled hole or check valve aor anything else that requires maintenance.
ALWAYS place your returns close to the surface and ensure you have sufficient room in your sump to contain the small amout of water that will flow back in a power outage. I know from testing I drain a maximum of 3.8 gallons of water from my tank to my sump so I always keep that amount plus some available in my sump at all times. Its easy and foolproof and does not require any cleaning or maintenance like drilled holes or check valves that can still fail due to a flake of dry food, a snail, a grain of sand etc.

Chrigui · 10/02/2007, 06:41 AM

thank you guys for sharing all this information... was wondering if i have a 100g tank build should i share it here or large tank forum ?

Shagsbeard · 10/02/2007, 06:50 AM

either forum would be fine. 100 isn't really considered "large"... more of "good sized". 200+ is "large" though some people have even higher limits. Different people have different levels. They're not going to chase you out of the forum there for "only" having 100 gal.

Chrigui · 10/02/2007, 06:55 AM

hehehe thanks for the tip i will do that its going to be 100g but when counting the refu, sump and frag, will be around 300 to 400.

10/01/2007, 04:54 AM	#1
Chrigui Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 69	water flood am using a jebo water pump (cheap product) from my sump to the tank for 6 months now... and a tunze overflow box. last week the power went off at night and the the water was flooded from the sump 25% of the water in tank was out. so, when the power is off the return pump uses the gravity i guess and it was doing the overflow's job. is there and solution for this or any option should i look for when i go buy a new return pump?

10/01/2007, 05:06 AM	#2
crumbletop Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 4,718	It is probably not the return pump, but the return line. Make sure the outlet from the return line is close to the surface of the display so that not much water will back siphon through when the power is cut. You can also try drilling some small siphon break holes in the return line near the surface, but those can clog. __________________ "Misers get up early in the morning; and burglars, I am informed, get up the night before." - GK Chesterton Current Tank Info: 90 gallon AGA RR. 20 gal sump. 6x54W T5. AquaController Jr.

10/01/2007, 05:08 AM	#3
gowlover Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: NC Posts: 121	Just drill a hole below your normal water line on your return line. This way if the power goes out and the water starts to go back into the sump, it will lose siphon due to the hole. __________________ 70gl, 60lb of live rock, 36" CF 2x96watt actinic and daylight, 400watt 15K MH, Yellow Tang, Wrasse, Foxface, purple anemone, green Goniopora, Mushrooms, Emerald crab, 5 lg turbos Current Tank Info: 70g & 10g

10/01/2007, 05:12 AM	#6
gowlover Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: NC Posts: 121	lol __________________ 70gl, 60lb of live rock, 36" CF 2x96watt actinic and daylight, 400watt 15K MH, Yellow Tang, Wrasse, Foxface, purple anemone, green Goniopora, Mushrooms, Emerald crab, 5 lg turbos Current Tank Info: 70g & 10g

10/01/2007, 08:03 AM	#9
ezrec Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 66	With all of these 'my pumps turned off, and there's water everywhere!" posts, I wonder... ... am I one of the few people that do a full-power-off test every time they change the plumbing or add top-off water? __________________ What, no Aiptasia? Current Tank Info: 55g + 15g sump/refugim Experimental Pest Tank

10/01/2007, 05:11 AM	#4
iwishtofish Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Southern Maryland Posts: 4,949	A siphon probably occurred in your return line when your pump lost power. Many people drill a small hole ("siphon break") in their return outlet either right at or just below the water line in their display tank. This way, when the return pump stops and a siphon starts, the siphon breaks when the display tank water level drops below that hole. This is also the main reason people don't keep the water level too high in their sumps - there needs to be room to accommodate the water that comes back down from both the return hose and the overflow in the event of a power loss. Sorry to hear about your flood!

10/01/2007, 05:18 AM	#7
Playa-1 Moved On Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Laguna Niguel, CA Posts: 7,497	That sounds like a typical syphoning problem that you would see if your return lines were too deep into the tank without some type of a syphon break. A syphon break can be created by drilling a small hole at the base of the return nozzle near the surface of the water. The hole should be drilled so that the water from the tiny hole will go into the tank when the pump is powered up. The way it would work is when the pump failed for some reason the main tank would begin to syphon into the sump. As soon as the water level were to reach the syphon break hole it would introduce air into the line and break the syphon and that should solve the syphoning issue on the return line. It could also be several different issues and its hard to know without seeing a photo of the system or a diagram of how it is laid out. You need to leave enough room in the sump so that in the event of a power failure that your sump will be able to hold the water that backflows. Some people install check valves to try and prevent backflow issues but in my experience check valves will fail at some point and they are not a reliable solution.

10/01/2007, 05:20 AM	#8
iwishtofish Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Southern Maryland Posts: 4,949	No prob - Just make sure that the hole you drill is big enough to break the siphon, but not bigger than necesssary. Drill it just below the water line (pull it out first ) if your pump is powerful, so water doesn't squirt around. I just started with a smaller hole and tested by killing the power to my pump. And yes, as crumbletop said, these holes can clog or be clogged by a critter (like a snail), so check it periodically! I actually have two holes drilled in mine.

10/01/2007, 10:58 AM	#11
AZDesertRat Moved On Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: NW Phoenix Posts: 16,621	DO NOT rely on a drilled hole as a siphon break. If you are going to take the time to redo the plumbing do it right the first time and you will never need a drilled hole or check valve aor anything else that requires maintenance. ALWAYS place your returns close to the surface and ensure you have sufficient room in your sump to contain the small amout of water that will flow back in a power outage. I know from testing I drain a maximum of 3.8 gallons of water from my tank to my sump so I always keep that amount plus some available in my sump at all times. Its easy and foolproof and does not require any cleaning or maintenance like drilled holes or check valves that can still fail due to a flake of dry food, a snail, a grain of sand etc.

10/02/2007, 06:41 AM	#12
Chrigui Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 69	thank you guys for sharing all this information... was wondering if i have a 100g tank build should i share it here or large tank forum ?

10/02/2007, 06:50 AM	#13
Shagsbeard Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Morro Bay, CA Posts: 2,143	either forum would be fine. 100 isn't really considered "large"... more of "good sized". 200+ is "large" though some people have even higher limits. Different people have different levels. They're not going to chase you out of the forum there for "only" having 100 gal.

10/02/2007, 06:55 AM	#14
Chrigui Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 69	hehehe thanks for the tip i will do that its going to be 100g but when counting the refu, sump and frag, will be around 300 to 400.