Big Calcium problem

llama72 · 10/23/2007, 05:59 PM

My calcium is low and i don't know what to do.

Background:
75gal RR tank (contents listed below)
Used Kent Liquid Calcium
Tested calcium in May: .360
LFS said use "A" and "B"
Changed to Kent A & B
Put 2 capfuls each in daily
Tested Calcium in July: 410
Started putting 3 capfulls daily
Tested Calcium in Sept: 410
Tested Calcium on Oct 13: 240
LFS said go up to 4 capfulls each day
Tested Calcium today, October 23: 260

LFS said he doesn't know what I should do. I am still new to SW so I REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO!!!!

llama72 · 10/23/2007, 06:00 PM

PH = 8.4
Nitrates = 0

BrokeColoReefer · 10/23/2007, 06:01 PM

what test kit are you using? whats you alk when you tested out at 260? My guess is that your alk is high and your system is unbalanced. That would explain your stellar PH level.

llama72 · 10/23/2007, 06:03 PM

Did get the exact # on the ack. Was told it was OK.

llama72 · 10/23/2007, 06:06 PM

did not get the exact ack number. I am not sure of the brand of the kit. I was thinking the same thing but he keeps a chart with everyone's Calcium levels and the other 10 entries on the page were in the 400 or higher range.

trojank · 10/23/2007, 06:07 PM

I use Kent turbo calcium it works great for me. I also had the same problem years ago so I stoped using the two part from kent. I also use kent kh buff. They are both easy to use. Last night looked on the two part solitions web site I think I will be using there products now they are alot cheeper then buying Kent products!

llama72 · 10/23/2007, 06:48 PM

what steps do i need to take to get it up?

The Cardinal · 10/24/2007, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by llama72
what steps do i need to take to get it up?

First you test magnesium and raise this to a good level then you raise your CA with a CA booster. If your mg is not at a sufficient level you will not be able to raise your CA.

llama72 · 10/24/2007, 06:28 AM

I will go out and test my mag and add if necessary. Thank you.

john rochon · 10/24/2007, 06:35 AM

why worry?? your running a mostly softy tank from what I can tell.
360 is no big issue. ALK to me is more important.
if you were all SPS then it would help to boost it.
I've run a tank at 360 CAL for years with SPS and it never was an issue

The Cardinal · 10/24/2007, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by john rochon
why worry?? your running a mostly softy tank from what I can tell.
360 is no big issue. ALK to me is more important.
if you were all SPS then it would help to boost it.
I've run a tank at 360 CAL for years with SPS and it never was an issue

He doesnÂ´t need to worry but he is not providing optimal growth at 260 (360 was in May). Soft corals need calcium as well.

john rochon · 10/24/2007, 10:22 AM

just seen the 260. theres something wrong with either your kit or your making some mistakes. no way you can go from 410 to 260 with what corals your keeping.

cardinal,, softys need very little calcium and even if it was 260 [which I doubt] the softys would still survive just fine. ALK is more of an issue IMO. [I'm not new to reefing

]

llama72 · 10/24/2007, 10:59 AM

well, since i don't have a test kit for mag, nor the 2 LFS in the area, should I go ahead and add some mag booster or wait and order a test kit?

LobsterOfJustice · 10/24/2007, 12:16 PM

Wait and order a kit. Ca, Alk, and Mg are all interconnected.

The Cardinal · 10/25/2007, 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by john rochon
just seen the 260. theres something wrong with either your kit or your making some mistakes. no way you can go from 410 to 260 with what corals your keeping.

cardinal,, softys need very little calcium and even if it was 260 [which I doubt] the softys would still survive just fine. ALK is more of an issue IMO. [I'm not new to reefing ]

IÂ´m sure you have a lot of experience and I wasnÂ´t trying to put you down in any way, I apologise if I came across that way. I do agree that his corals will be fine with a lower calcium but although the calcification need is lower for soft corals I still would say that OPTIMAL GROWTH is achieved at around 420. He might also not desire the tank to remain a soft dominated tank in the long run. Calcification algae will also grow much better at higher CA and MG (again depending if this is desired or not, personally I like the look).

That his calcium has fallen from 410 to 260 could be because his MG or ALK was off the scale and not necessarily due to a mistake when measuring imo (on two occations). Did you change your dosing routine between Sept and Oct and how long time was there between these measurements? How did your ALK change during this period?

Whatever the reason my advise still stands to first test and adjust MG and then CA with a booster.

/Peter

uscharalph · 10/25/2007, 04:29 AM

I buy my water from the LFS and they use: Red Sea Coral Pro for my weekly water changes. The great thing about this is that it really helps keep my parameter in check.

llama72 · 10/25/2007, 10:08 AM

alk = 8.4

I am waiting on the mag test kits. I guesss this may be the problem.

I want to thank all of you for your input and help.

reefshadow · 10/26/2007, 04:04 AM

Hi, Llama-

8.4 DKH is fine for alk, though some like to run it a bit higher. For your tank as long as it is pretty stable I would say it's a great value.

Re the calcium, I see one thing right off the bat that is a huge pet peeve of mine. Neither the LFS nor the package directions can have any idea what amount of supplement you need. They have no idea in the world what your current value is, what your water volume is, and what your target is. The ONLY way to know is to test with a reliable kit, then use a calculator for your particular supplement to judge how much you should add. I like http://jdieck1.home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chemcalc.html , to calculate simply test then follow the directions for your particular supplement. Make sure you calculate the water volume for displacement, depending on how much LR and sand you have.

Any of the calcium chloride based supplements will work, how well they work depends on the supplement. I like the dry ones, you get much more bang for your buck. Using a diluted liquid supplement will usually take ALOT to effect a significant change, for example to raise 75 gallons from 240 ppm to 400 ppm using Kent liquid calcium would take- 454.2 ml; 15.3 fl oz; 90.8 tsp. That is probably about a whole bottle? With 4 capfulls you are probably not even keeping up with demand, much less increasing the value.

From your post it is my feeling that mag is probably not the problem, rather that you aren't supplementing enough relative to demand. Good to check mag though.

In short, never add a suplement blindly unless it is a balanced slow addition such as kalkwasser.

Many soft corals use calcium to grow sclerites that support their tissues. Most branching softies, sarcophytons, gorgonians and others need calcium to thrive long term. In addition, snails, some macro algaes and all calcareous algaes need ample amounts. You will see better growth with many softies if the calcium is correct.

I would start out with weekly testing of ca and alk and then use the calculator to determine what amount of supplementation is right for your tank. Once you have a good handle on the amounts, you can then test every other week and after every water change.

Good luck!

10/23/2007, 05:59 PM	#1
llama72 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: hokes bluff, al Posts: 511	Big Calcium problem My calcium is low and i don't know what to do. Background: 75gal RR tank (contents listed below) Used Kent Liquid Calcium Tested calcium in May: .360 LFS said use "A" and "B" Changed to Kent A & B Put 2 capfuls each in daily Tested Calcium in July: 410 Started putting 3 capfulls daily Tested Calcium in Sept: 410 Tested Calcium on Oct 13: 240 LFS said go up to 4 capfulls each day Tested Calcium today, October 23: 260 LFS said he doesn't know what I should do. I am still new to SW so I REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO!!!!

10/23/2007, 06:01 PM	#3
BrokeColoReefer Hermit Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mountains of Boulder County. Posts: 2,289	what test kit are you using? whats you alk when you tested out at 260? My guess is that your alk is high and your system is unbalanced. That would explain your stellar PH level. __________________ Stay fishy my friends. Current Tank Info: 300 gallon built in plumbed to the basement. 30 gallon surge for flow, GEO protein skimmer, litermeter 3's for continuous water change (1 gallon per day), calc reactors, kalk reactors, 600w MHx2, 6" DSB, 1000 lbs of live rock (300 display, 700 sump)

10/24/2007, 12:16 PM	#14
LobsterOfJustice Recovering Detritophobe Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 7,443	Wait and order a kit. Ca, Alk, and Mg are all interconnected. __________________ If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. I remember when zoanthids were called things like "green" and "orange" and not "reverse gorilla nipple." Current Tank Info: 180g reef with all the bells and whistles

10/25/2007, 04:29 AM	#16
uscharalph Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Long Beach, CA Posts: 1,248	I buy my water from the LFS and they use: Red Sea Coral Pro for my weekly water changes. The great thing about this is that it really helps keep my parameter in check. __________________ Ralph Mendoza Jr. Long Beach, CA Current Tank Info: 80 Gallon Reef Tank

10/26/2007, 04:04 AM	#18
reefshadow Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Central Washington Posts: 1,786	Hi, Llama- 8.4 DKH is fine for alk, though some like to run it a bit higher. For your tank as long as it is pretty stable I would say it's a great value. Re the calcium, I see one thing right off the bat that is a huge pet peeve of mine. Neither the LFS nor the package directions can have any idea what amount of supplement you need. They have no idea in the world what your current value is, what your water volume is, and what your target is. The ONLY way to know is to test with a reliable kit, then use a calculator for your particular supplement to judge how much you should add. I like http://jdieck1.home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chemcalc.html , to calculate simply test then follow the directions for your particular supplement. Make sure you calculate the water volume for displacement, depending on how much LR and sand you have. Any of the calcium chloride based supplements will work, how well they work depends on the supplement. I like the dry ones, you get much more bang for your buck. Using a diluted liquid supplement will usually take ALOT to effect a significant change, for example to raise 75 gallons from 240 ppm to 400 ppm using Kent liquid calcium would take- 454.2 ml; 15.3 fl oz; 90.8 tsp. That is probably about a whole bottle? With 4 capfulls you are probably not even keeping up with demand, much less increasing the value. From your post it is my feeling that mag is probably not the problem, rather that you aren't supplementing enough relative to demand. Good to check mag though. In short, never add a suplement blindly unless it is a balanced slow addition such as kalkwasser. Many soft corals use calcium to grow sclerites that support their tissues. Most branching softies, sarcophytons, gorgonians and others need calcium to thrive long term. In addition, snails, some macro algaes and all calcareous algaes need ample amounts. You will see better growth with many softies if the calcium is correct. I would start out with weekly testing of ca and alk and then use the calculator to determine what amount of supplementation is right for your tank. Once you have a good handle on the amounts, you can then test every other week and after every water change. Good luck! __________________ All Your Coral Are Belong To Us Current Tank Info: 30 Deep Blue shallow mixed rimless, MP10, Ecoxotic LED's, SCA 301 skimmer.

10/23/2007, 06:00 PM	#2
llama72 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: hokes bluff, al Posts: 511	PH = 8.4 Nitrates = 0

10/23/2007, 06:03 PM	#4
llama72 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: hokes bluff, al Posts: 511	Did get the exact # on the ack. Was told it was OK.

10/23/2007, 06:06 PM	#5
llama72 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: hokes bluff, al Posts: 511	did not get the exact ack number. I am not sure of the brand of the kit. I was thinking the same thing but he keeps a chart with everyone's Calcium levels and the other 10 entries on the page were in the 400 or higher range.

10/23/2007, 06:07 PM	#6
trojank Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sacramento CA Posts: 84	I use Kent turbo calcium it works great for me. I also had the same problem years ago so I stoped using the two part from kent. I also use kent kh buff. They are both easy to use. Last night looked on the two part solitions web site I think I will be using there products now they are alot cheeper then buying Kent products!

10/23/2007, 06:48 PM	#7
llama72 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: hokes bluff, al Posts: 511	what steps do i need to take to get it up?

10/24/2007, 06:28 AM	#9
llama72 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: hokes bluff, al Posts: 511	I will go out and test my mag and add if necessary. Thank you.

10/24/2007, 06:35 AM	#10
john rochon Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: canada Posts: 2,082	why worry?? your running a mostly softy tank from what I can tell. 360 is no big issue. ALK to me is more important. if you were all SPS then it would help to boost it. I've run a tank at 360 CAL for years with SPS and it never was an issue

10/24/2007, 10:22 AM	#12
john rochon Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: canada Posts: 2,082	just seen the 260. theres something wrong with either your kit or your making some mistakes. no way you can go from 410 to 260 with what corals your keeping. cardinal,, softys need very little calcium and even if it was 260 [which I doubt] the softys would still survive just fine. ALK is more of an issue IMO. [I'm not new to reefing ]

10/24/2007, 10:59 AM	#13
llama72 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: hokes bluff, al Posts: 511	well, since i don't have a test kit for mag, nor the 2 LFS in the area, should I go ahead and add some mag booster or wait and order a test kit?

10/25/2007, 10:08 AM	#17
llama72 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: hokes bluff, al Posts: 511	alk = 8.4 I am waiting on the mag test kits. I guesss this may be the problem. I want to thank all of you for your input and help.