carbon and garlic ??? differing views - Page 2

350nine · 12/10/2007, 01:31 PM

Plus I find that fish tend to eat cooked garlic more thant the raw stuff.

hmello@bermexin · 12/10/2007, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vin7250
MAKE SURE YOU SAUTEE THE GARLIC AFTER THE ONIONS HAVE SAUTEED FOR A FEW MINUTES....THEN JUST BEFORE THE GARLIC BROWNS YOU CAN ADD YOUR TOMATOES, SALT & PEPPER, AND A PINCH OF SUGAR TO OFFSET THE BITTERNESS OF THE TOMATOES....THIS WILL INDEED, AFTER TASTE TESTING AND SPICING TO YOUR LIKES, MAKE A TASTY SOUTHERN ITALIAN SAUCE (OR GRAVY AS REAL ITALIANS CALL IT). ADD SAUSAGE, MEATBALLS, AND/OR PORK TO FLAVOR THE SAUCE AND SIMMER FOR HOURS......SORRY FOR THE CAPS GUYS LOL !!!!

Also needs a pinch of ground red pepper for that little bit of zing it gives.

greenbean36191 · 12/10/2007, 04:02 PM

Allicin, which is the compound typically credited for the effects of garlic, is broken down by heat. If you want the benefits of the allicin it would be best not to cook the garlic.

350nine · 12/10/2007, 07:06 PM

Really? Interesting. Is allicin the compound that is reputed to ward off ich? I don't use garlic for ich. I give it to my fish for the same reason I eat it. Because it enhances the food and one's appetite. For ich there's copper. One a side note, I do a lot of back country backpacking here is CA. I always eat a lot of garlic with my evening meals before and during my trips. I find that mosquitoes are less attracted to me when my pores reek of garlic so maybe there is some value here as far as parasite repelence as well. There is not enough data on this subject,just speculations at this point.

greenbean36191 · 12/10/2007, 07:12 PM

Allicin is the compound reputed to improve immunity, ward off parasites, and kill bacteria and fungi. Whether it actually does that in vivo isn't known.

tmz · 12/10/2007, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by greenbean36191
Allicin, which is the compound typically credited for the effects of garlic, is broken down by heat. If you want the benefits of the allicin it would be best not to cook the garlic.

As I understand it the allicin is only of value for an hour or so after the garlic is pressed so commercial concentrate products preserved with citric acid are probably little more than appetite enhancers if that with little or no immuno value. All in all the jury is still out but I would not really on garlic or pepper or other unproven panceas for ich.

greenbean36191 · 12/11/2007, 09:21 AM

Personally, I wouldn't rely on garlic to do anything, but if you're one of the believers in it, you might as well use it in a way that produces the most of the "active ingredient."

fredddy · 12/11/2007, 10:17 AM

Been in the hobby for 3yrs.2 weeks ago yellow tang had black spot(parasitic flat worms)added fresh crushed garlic to food 2 days later black spot gone.Have run carbon all the time in my tanks.tank is doing great.Hope this helps

K' Family Reef · 12/11/2007, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fredddy
Been in the hobby for 3yrs.2 weeks ago yellow tang had black spot(parasitic flat worms)added fresh crushed garlic to food 2 days later black spot gone.Have run carbon all the time in my tanks.tank is doing great.Hope this helps

hi Freddy

glad to hear it worked for your fish! and that your tank is doing well...

the question really about the carbon (to me atleast)
is how long its effective - doesnt seem like there is any clear evidence about this... would seem to change it every couple weeks would be good practice to insure its atleast doing something and not causing any problems/releasing anything back into system

the allicin mentioned here by others
in humans atleast does help w/ parasite control... speaking primarily re CANDIDA ALBICANS... in the system... which can occur in both men and woman caused by weakened immune system (amongst other things - overconsumption of carbs/sugar) which allows for the overgrowth of this in the system... ultimately can become systemic and spread throughout the body causing all sorts of problems (chronic fatigue like symptoms +++)

one way to deal w/ this
is to take fresh garlic mash it up let it sit for 30-45 mins or so then swallow it whole like a vitamin... if in the case of candida in the system - one will soon thereafter get an immune reaction/HOT all over.. this will be the allicin working its magic and killing the candida/parasites... which will then cause symptoms from the die off etc etcETC...

if anyone was interested
might just try this and see what happens! if an 'immune reaction' occurs then atleast one would know its getting rid of something! and that it does work!

iow there are clearly identifiable immune boosting properties
about garlic - but it depends entirely (perhaps) on this allicin... and again the allicin has a 'lifespan'

whether this can work in aquatic environments ???
dont know and if so in what way should it be properly 'administered' would be more like the question to be asked...

if i was to use it again
(vs buying 30$ bottle garlic extreme) would probably do it in the same way it would be used to treat the candida in humans... mash it let it sit (perhaps mixed in w/ food to be fed to fish) then feed the tank... thinking logically about it this might (((perhaps))) give the best results... whether the food can absorb any of it or whether it just washes away in the water - well who knows???

regards

tylorarm · 12/11/2007, 12:30 PM

Are the subjects of garlic and carbon in any way related? Or is this thread examining two separate issues at the same time? Does the use of garlic extreme or garlic guard use up carbon capacity or something? I don't see the connection really between the two. Is there one?

K' Family Reef · 12/11/2007, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tylorarm
Are the subjects of garlic and carbon in any way related? Or is this thread examining two separate issues at the same time? Does the use of garlic extreme or garlic guard use up carbon capacity or something? I don't see the connection really between the two. Is there one?

no just 2 different subjects
common/related to one another only in the way that there is a lot of contradictory/opposing views/info about how they are to be used and how effective they (((may))) be or for how long ETC

if you read thru this thread
it begins to enlighten one on the common views and/or misconceptions regarding these 2 (different) subjects... and there still doesnt seem to be a consensus either or perhaps even any 'data' to back up any 'claim' other then subjective personal experience...

which (may) be the best 'data' of all (or not!)

the use of UV
could be added to this thread... w/ the 'same' type subjective debate behind it as well... w/ a little data here or there to back up one claim against the other

regards

WaterKeeper · 12/12/2007, 12:09 PM

I know chewing on a clove of garlic has warded off many homely women in my life, so I guess it has some virtuous properties. Of course, if I use a carbon filtered gas mask it removes a lot of its fragrant vapors and reduces its effectiveness.

greenbean36191 · 12/12/2007, 01:35 PM

Quote:

the allicin mentioned here by others
in humans atleast does help w/ parasite control...

Has this been demonstrated in vivo (i.e. in living people as opposed to in a petri dish)? I know of a lot of tests showing it's effective against bacteria and fungi and produces a general immune response in the lab but AFAIK there have been no studies showing that allicin administered orally is effective for treating any parasites or infections of any kind in humans.

K' Family Reef · 12/12/2007, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by WaterKeeper
I know chewing on a clove of garlic has warded off many homely women in my life, so I guess it has some virtuous properties. Of course, if I use a carbon filtered gas mask it removes a lot of its fragrant vapors and reduces its effectiveness.

'

ya it comes out smelling like taco bell

"yo quero taco bell???"

K' Family Reef · 12/12/2007, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by greenbean36191
Has this been demonstrated in vivo (i.e. in living people as opposed to in a petri dish)? I know of a lot of tests showing it's effective against bacteria and fungi and produces a general immune response in the lab but AFAIK there have been no studies showing that allicin administered orally is effective for treating any parasites or infections of any kind in humans.

(afaik???)

greenbean

fwiw...
garlic has been used like this for a long time... the 'process' by which it acts/works is clearly documented in people dealing w/ this problem... you might not find as much scientific studies to back it up but it is clearly and definably used in this way... much like coconut oil which has (((CLEARLY))) been shown to boost the immune system in people...

neither of which - get any major studies done bec well

WHO BENEFITS???
(not the drug companies!)

regards

greenbean36191 · 12/12/2007, 05:11 PM

AFAIK= as far as I know.

There have actually been a lot of studies done on the efficacy of garlic/allicin, including a few done with fish. We know that it works as an antimicrobial and promotes a general immune response in vitro, as well as having several other effects such as possibly reducing inflamation. When injected it seems to work too. However, we also know allicin isn't very easily absorbed into the body, it's broken down quickly by heat or acid (like in the stomach), and tests have been unable to find it in the blood when taken orally. All of that suggests that allicin isn't conferring the same benefits in vivo when taken orally. That's not to say that garlic can't do what it's purported to. AFAIK there haven't been any controlled, in vivo studies demonstrating the effectiveness of garlic, so the jury is still out on that one. We may just be looking at the wrong mechanism.

There a numerous folk remedies that have been discredited, even some that seemed to work in the lab, so the simple fact that it's been used that way for a long time and people think it works doesn't mean that it does.

12/10/2007, 04:02 PM	#28
greenbean36191 Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Posts: 10,598	Allicin, which is the compound typically credited for the effects of garlic, is broken down by heat. If you want the benefits of the allicin it would be best not to cook the garlic. __________________ Some say the sun rises in the East. Some say it rises in the West. The truth must be somewhere in the middle. Current Tank Info: tore them down to move and haven't had the time or money to set them back up

12/10/2007, 07:12 PM	#30
greenbean36191 Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Posts: 10,598	Allicin is the compound reputed to improve immunity, ward off parasites, and kill bacteria and fungi. Whether it actually does that in vivo isn't known. __________________ Some say the sun rises in the East. Some say it rises in the West. The truth must be somewhere in the middle. Current Tank Info: tore them down to move and haven't had the time or money to set them back up

12/11/2007, 09:21 AM	#32
greenbean36191 Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Posts: 10,598	Personally, I wouldn't rely on garlic to do anything, but if you're one of the believers in it, you might as well use it in a way that produces the most of the "active ingredient." __________________ Some say the sun rises in the East. Some say it rises in the West. The truth must be somewhere in the middle. Current Tank Info: tore them down to move and haven't had the time or money to set them back up

12/12/2007, 12:09 PM	#37
WaterKeeper Bogus Information Expert Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 16,147	I know chewing on a clove of garlic has warded off many homely women in my life, so I guess it has some virtuous properties. Of course, if I use a carbon filtered gas mask it removes a lot of its fragrant vapors and reduces its effectiveness. __________________ "Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation" Tom Current Tank Info: 130 Now out of service and a 29 Last edited by WaterKeeper; 12/12/2007 at 12:16 PM.

12/12/2007, 05:11 PM	#41
greenbean36191 Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Posts: 10,598	AFAIK= as far as I know. There have actually been a lot of studies done on the efficacy of garlic/allicin, including a few done with fish. We know that it works as an antimicrobial and promotes a general immune response in vitro, as well as having several other effects such as possibly reducing inflamation. When injected it seems to work too. However, we also know allicin isn't very easily absorbed into the body, it's broken down quickly by heat or acid (like in the stomach), and tests have been unable to find it in the blood when taken orally. All of that suggests that allicin isn't conferring the same benefits in vivo when taken orally. That's not to say that garlic can't do what it's purported to. AFAIK there haven't been any controlled, in vivo studies demonstrating the effectiveness of garlic, so the jury is still out on that one. We may just be looking at the wrong mechanism. There a numerous folk remedies that have been discredited, even some that seemed to work in the lab, so the simple fact that it's been used that way for a long time and people think it works doesn't mean that it does. __________________ Some say the sun rises in the East. Some say it rises in the West. The truth must be somewhere in the middle. Current Tank Info: tore them down to move and haven't had the time or money to set them back up

12/10/2007, 01:31 PM	#26
350nine Awaiting Email Confirmation Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: San Francisco Posts: 79	Plus I find that fish tend to eat cooked garlic more thant the raw stuff.

12/10/2007, 07:06 PM	#29
350nine Awaiting Email Confirmation Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: San Francisco Posts: 79	Really? Interesting. Is allicin the compound that is reputed to ward off ich? I don't use garlic for ich. I give it to my fish for the same reason I eat it. Because it enhances the food and one's appetite. For ich there's copper. One a side note, I do a lot of back country backpacking here is CA. I always eat a lot of garlic with my evening meals before and during my trips. I find that mosquitoes are less attracted to me when my pores reek of garlic so maybe there is some value here as far as parasite repelence as well. There is not enough data on this subject,just speculations at this point.

12/11/2007, 10:17 AM	#33
fredddy Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: creston,bc Posts: 39	Been in the hobby for 3yrs.2 weeks ago yellow tang had black spot(parasitic flat worms)added fresh crushed garlic to food 2 days later black spot gone.Have run carbon all the time in my tanks.tank is doing great.Hope this helps

12/11/2007, 12:30 PM	#35
tylorarm Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 759	Are the subjects of garlic and carbon in any way related? Or is this thread examining two separate issues at the same time? Does the use of garlic extreme or garlic guard use up carbon capacity or something? I don't see the connection really between the two. Is there one?