Few set up questions

Onte · 01/18/2008, 12:22 PM

This might wind up being more than a few questions, bear with me. Some of these questions might be really dumb and I apologize ahead of time - we're kind of overwhelmed. I think we're over-thinking and over-mad-scientisting.

We put water (tap, yes we know it's a sin and it will not be repeated) and salt in our tank this past weekend. We have not added any sort of water conditioners to the tank because we planned to leave the tank running and circulating for a week, at least. It looks like this bad boy is going to run for at least another week without any addition of substrate and LR and/or DR due to finances and other unavoidable stuff. The skimmer (AquaSea Urchin Pro), the overflows (Tom Aquatics) and sump (Mag 9.5) are all running and seem to be functioning properly. We do NOT yet have a heater and I think this is a large issue (buying one tomorrow). Current temp is way low - 72ish degrees. The heater has not been purchased because we had incorrectly assumed the lights would heat up the water a good bit - they have, just obviously not enough.

1 - We have a lot of undissolved salt (we think it's salt) lying on the floor of the tank. I have been extremely concerned about this salt and I have been attempting to suck it out with a turkey baster. Am I correct in thinking we do not want any of these salt granules lurking around the bottom of the tank and that it's not a good thing to drop substrate on top of this stuff?

2 - Our sump, overflows and skimmer came with various large-weave foams to cover intakes/outflows, etc. Are these worth using and should we continue to use and clean them on a regular basis? It seems they really slow down flow and we are concerned that the 2 in line after the refugium will filter out pods and beneficial algae. Anything to be concerned about?

3 - Moderate amount of white mist in the tank - I read in another thread, this morning, that this could possibly be calcium and that proper water temp may resolve this issue. Should I not be concerned with the white mist until we attain proper water temp?

Or am I actually staring at chlorine/chlorimine particles reflecting light?

4 - Our salinity is low, 1.019. We have not added additional salt because we haven't attained proper water temp (again, heater being bought tomorrow). Is this the correct attitude to take?

5 - On a whim, we tested Nitrates, Alk and Ph last night. Ph is reading 8.6, Alk is 0, Nitrates are 0. Other than salinity, should we be concerned about any of these other parameters until after substrate and LR are added?

6 - How long can this thing run with nothing but salt water in it? Like I mentioned earlier, the original plan was to start adding substrate/LR this weekend but due to unanticipated events, we're going to have to hold off.

7 - What in the world should the water level look like in the refugium? Here's a shot of our current configuration - you kind of have to hold our tongue right and squint to see the water level in the refugium.

I know I'm forgetting something. Thanks for your time, Ladies and Gents! (Don't poke fun at our awesome lime green carpet, you know you want it!)

el Deutche · 01/18/2008, 12:36 PM

Is there a way you can get a better pic of the refugium?

WaterKeeper · 01/18/2008, 12:39 PM

Hi Onte,

Much of you problems may be centered around the use of tap water. Going by the current pH of 8.6 I might conjecture that your tap has a very high pH, say in the 9-10 range. That would explain the precipitate and the cloudy water you are seeing. Check that tap water pH too.

You can't "see" chlorine or chloramines. That is like trying to see dissolved sugar. Chlorine will dissipate upon standing but chloramines are used as they are far more stable. Unless a dechlorinating agent is used they may still be present in your tank.

Those foam filter on intakes are there to protect the critters in your tank from being sucked into the equipment. Yes, they do need weekly cleaning but that is better than needing to remove a mangled fish.

As long as you replenish the water lost due to evaporation with fresh water you tank is fine for a long, long time as is. You really don't want to add anything yet until you get some heaters, get the salinity to the proper 1.025 level, lower pH to the 8.2-8.3 range, removed any chloramines and figured out how to get hold of a source of distilled or RO/DI water. It is a long list but needs to be done even before you add LR.

Good luck.

Onte · 01/18/2008, 01:46 PM

Close-up of the refugium:

Thanks for the advice Waterkeeper - that helped quite a bit!!!

_E_ · 01/18/2008, 01:58 PM

Onte,
No need to get in a hurry with anything...reef keeping is all about patience. You can leave your tank like it is for a long time without any worries.
I would definitely get the heater and have it up and running. That should help to dissolve the rest of the salt. Keep the pumps on circulating the water (and you can even reach in and stir up the salt debris to help). It may take a good 24 hours at temp to see the water clear.
I would steer away from using the tap water in the future if at all possible. I would bet that the high pH is attributable to it. Most "marts", pet stores, and even some grocery stores sell reverse osmosis, de-ionized (RODI) water. Get a couple of 5 gallon containers and keep them around the house full of this water for top off water and water changes. The cost of this is minimal, about 20-30 cents a gallon.
The water height in the sump is hard to tell from the picture but looks like it might be OK. Is the water overflowing the baffles? Are all pumps well under water? If you shut off your pumps is there enough empty space in the sump for the water in the tubing to drain to without overflowing?
With the foam filters, you should definitley keep the ones on the intakes in the tank. They are designed to keep fish out of your overflows. The ones in the sump are there to filter out big particles and are more debatable. I personally run a sock filter on the overflow drain pipe because I don't like debris in the sump. Some don't use them at all and do just fine. The only caution is, if you use them, keep them clean.
Eric

Deb91 · 01/18/2008, 03:09 PM

If I were you I would empty the water out and eighter buy ro/di water or buy a ro/di unit. The only money you will be waisting is the salt.Why are you going to waist your money on electric to run tap water anyway? If you had live sand and live rock in there then that would be a different ball game. You still have a chance to start out on the right foot if you just wait till you have money to to it right.

el Deutche · 01/18/2008, 03:36 PM

i agree w/ everyone, use RO water. I started with just tap water and had a terrible diatom problem. All of my rocks (DR) looked liked giant turds. Bought a RO unit and it went away. Use it all the time for top offs and water changes.
Water in your fuge looks good to me.
By the way. I like the carpet

Onte · 01/18/2008, 04:37 PM

Any recommendations on a heater? How about an RO/DI unit? El husband has been researching these two items for the last couple nights; just wanted to see what peoples' opinions are on these. Not concerned about cost as much as reliability and performance.

I greatly appreciate all the feedback so far!!! This is helping me out quite a bit.

el Deutche · 01/18/2008, 09:53 PM

These are what I got, and have had no problems. Still get some feedback from others.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...52&pcatid=3852

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...3&pcatid=12093

Also, all I got was a RO unit 24gpd 3 stage, not a RO/DI. I recently bought a 6mo old used 180gal set up that has one of these. Haven't picked it up yet, in the process of getting a house.

http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewIt...ct~SP1711.html

otrlynn · 01/18/2008, 10:06 PM

Regarding heaters, you may want to consider two somewhat smaller heaters vs. one heater rated for your tank capacity. If one were to fail, chances are that the other one would hold the tank temperature at a less-than-lethal point, giving you time to notice the temperature change and replace the failing unit before you lose livestock. Also make sure that you have a thermometer to keep track of tank temp.

macronut · 01/18/2008, 10:24 PM

i have used the vistherm stealth heaters and found they are reliable. I agree with the previous post. get two heaters of smaller wattages to meet the wattage you need for your tank. Example....if you need 300watts for your tank, get two 150 watters. In doing so if one would ever fail you have one still working. Just my opinion.

I think your setup looks nice so far. good luck and remember to be patient, don't skimp on proper equipment, and be patient. In doing so your final result will be very self rewarding and gratifying. Happy reefing!

01/18/2008, 12:22 PM	#1
Onte Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 71	Few set up questions This might wind up being more than a few questions, bear with me. Some of these questions might be really dumb and I apologize ahead of time - we're kind of overwhelmed. I think we're over-thinking and over-mad-scientisting. We put water (tap, yes we know it's a sin and it will not be repeated) and salt in our tank this past weekend. We have not added any sort of water conditioners to the tank because we planned to leave the tank running and circulating for a week, at least. It looks like this bad boy is going to run for at least another week without any addition of substrate and LR and/or DR due to finances and other unavoidable stuff. The skimmer (AquaSea Urchin Pro), the overflows (Tom Aquatics) and sump (Mag 9.5) are all running and seem to be functioning properly. We do NOT yet have a heater and I think this is a large issue (buying one tomorrow). Current temp is way low - 72ish degrees. The heater has not been purchased because we had incorrectly assumed the lights would heat up the water a good bit - they have, just obviously not enough. 1 - We have a lot of undissolved salt (we think it's salt) lying on the floor of the tank. I have been extremely concerned about this salt and I have been attempting to suck it out with a turkey baster. Am I correct in thinking we do not want any of these salt granules lurking around the bottom of the tank and that it's not a good thing to drop substrate on top of this stuff? 2 - Our sump, overflows and skimmer came with various large-weave foams to cover intakes/outflows, etc. Are these worth using and should we continue to use and clean them on a regular basis? It seems they really slow down flow and we are concerned that the 2 in line after the refugium will filter out pods and beneficial algae. Anything to be concerned about? 3 - Moderate amount of white mist in the tank - I read in another thread, this morning, that this could possibly be calcium and that proper water temp may resolve this issue. Should I not be concerned with the white mist until we attain proper water temp? Or am I actually staring at chlorine/chlorimine particles reflecting light? 4 - Our salinity is low, 1.019. We have not added additional salt because we haven't attained proper water temp (again, heater being bought tomorrow). Is this the correct attitude to take? 5 - On a whim, we tested Nitrates, Alk and Ph last night. Ph is reading 8.6, Alk is 0, Nitrates are 0. Other than salinity, should we be concerned about any of these other parameters until after substrate and LR are added? 6 - How long can this thing run with nothing but salt water in it? Like I mentioned earlier, the original plan was to start adding substrate/LR this weekend but due to unanticipated events, we're going to have to hold off. 7 - What in the world should the water level look like in the refugium? Here's a shot of our current configuration - you kind of have to hold our tongue right and squint to see the water level in the refugium. I know I'm forgetting something. Thanks for your time, Ladies and Gents! (Don't poke fun at our awesome lime green carpet, you know you want it!)

01/18/2008, 12:36 PM	#2
el Deutche Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: NW Ohio Posts: 134	Is there a way you can get a better pic of the refugium? __________________ Those who would sacrifice Liberty for Security deserve neither. - Benjamin Franklin Current Tank Info: 180gal

01/18/2008, 12:39 PM	#3
WaterKeeper Bogus Information Expert Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 16,147	Hi Onte, Much of you problems may be centered around the use of tap water. Going by the current pH of 8.6 I might conjecture that your tap has a very high pH, say in the 9-10 range. That would explain the precipitate and the cloudy water you are seeing. Check that tap water pH too. You can't "see" chlorine or chloramines. That is like trying to see dissolved sugar. Chlorine will dissipate upon standing but chloramines are used as they are far more stable. Unless a dechlorinating agent is used they may still be present in your tank. Those foam filter on intakes are there to protect the critters in your tank from being sucked into the equipment. Yes, they do need weekly cleaning but that is better than needing to remove a mangled fish. As long as you replenish the water lost due to evaporation with fresh water you tank is fine for a long, long time as is. You really don't want to add anything yet until you get some heaters, get the salinity to the proper 1.025 level, lower pH to the 8.2-8.3 range, removed any chloramines and figured out how to get hold of a source of distilled or RO/DI water. It is a long list but needs to be done even before you add LR. Good luck. __________________ "Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation" Tom Current Tank Info: 130 Now out of service and a 29

01/18/2008, 03:09 PM	#6
Deb91 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Scituate,Ma. Posts: 577	If I were you I would empty the water out and eighter buy ro/di water or buy a ro/di unit. The only money you will be waisting is the salt.Why are you going to waist your money on electric to run tap water anyway? If you had live sand and live rock in there then that would be a different ball game. You still have a chance to start out on the right foot if you just wait till you have money to to it right. __________________ Deb Current Tank Info: None running now.

01/18/2008, 03:36 PM	#7
el Deutche Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: NW Ohio Posts: 134	i agree w/ everyone, use RO water. I started with just tap water and had a terrible diatom problem. All of my rocks (DR) looked liked giant turds. Bought a RO unit and it went away. Use it all the time for top offs and water changes. Water in your fuge looks good to me. By the way. I like the carpet __________________ Those who would sacrifice Liberty for Security deserve neither. - Benjamin Franklin Current Tank Info: 180gal

01/18/2008, 01:46 PM	#4
Onte Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 71	Close-up of the refugium: Thanks for the advice Waterkeeper - that helped quite a bit!!!

01/18/2008, 01:58 PM	#5
_E_ Professional Lurker Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Du Quoin, Illinois Posts: 1,169	Onte, No need to get in a hurry with anything...reef keeping is all about patience. You can leave your tank like it is for a long time without any worries. I would definitely get the heater and have it up and running. That should help to dissolve the rest of the salt. Keep the pumps on circulating the water (and you can even reach in and stir up the salt debris to help). It may take a good 24 hours at temp to see the water clear. I would steer away from using the tap water in the future if at all possible. I would bet that the high pH is attributable to it. Most "marts", pet stores, and even some grocery stores sell reverse osmosis, de-ionized (RODI) water. Get a couple of 5 gallon containers and keep them around the house full of this water for top off water and water changes. The cost of this is minimal, about 20-30 cents a gallon. The water height in the sump is hard to tell from the picture but looks like it might be OK. Is the water overflowing the baffles? Are all pumps well under water? If you shut off your pumps is there enough empty space in the sump for the water in the tubing to drain to without overflowing? With the foam filters, you should definitley keep the ones on the intakes in the tank. They are designed to keep fish out of your overflows. The ones in the sump are there to filter out big particles and are more debatable. I personally run a sock filter on the overflow drain pipe because I don't like debris in the sump. Some don't use them at all and do just fine. The only caution is, if you use them, keep them clean. Eric

01/18/2008, 04:37 PM	#8
Onte Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 71	Any recommendations on a heater? How about an RO/DI unit? El husband has been researching these two items for the last couple nights; just wanted to see what peoples' opinions are on these. Not concerned about cost as much as reliability and performance. I greatly appreciate all the feedback so far!!! This is helping me out quite a bit.

01/18/2008, 09:53 PM	#9
el Deutche Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: NW Ohio Posts: 134	These are what I got, and have had no problems. Still get some feedback from others. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...52&pcatid=3852 http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...3&pcatid=12093 Also, all I got was a RO unit 24gpd 3 stage, not a RO/DI. I recently bought a 6mo old used 180gal set up that has one of these. Haven't picked it up yet, in the process of getting a house. http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewIt...ct~SP1711.html __________________ Those who would sacrifice Liberty for Security deserve neither. - Benjamin Franklin Current Tank Info: 180gal

01/18/2008, 10:06 PM	#10
otrlynn Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Chester County PA Posts: 1,508	Regarding heaters, you may want to consider two somewhat smaller heaters vs. one heater rated for your tank capacity. If one were to fail, chances are that the other one would hold the tank temperature at a less-than-lethal point, giving you time to notice the temperature change and replace the failing unit before you lose livestock. Also make sure that you have a thermometer to keep track of tank temp. __________________ Lynn 1 horse, 1 dog, 2 cats, small pond with a few koi. The fish tank is gone.

01/18/2008, 10:24 PM	#11
macronut Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Indianapolis IN Posts: 405	i have used the vistherm stealth heaters and found they are reliable. I agree with the previous post. get two heaters of smaller wattages to meet the wattage you need for your tank. Example....if you need 300watts for your tank, get two 150 watters. In doing so if one would ever fail you have one still working. Just my opinion. I think your setup looks nice so far. good luck and remember to be patient, don't skimp on proper equipment, and be patient. In doing so your final result will be very self rewarding and gratifying. Happy reefing!