cycling

jguzzino · 01/25/2008, 10:31 PM

I am getting cured liverock from somebody I am wondering how long I need to let it sit in the tank before adding livestock. Also I was told to add damsels on the day I add the live rock because the fish poop feeds the live rock does anyone know about this?

demonsp · 01/25/2008, 10:36 PM

Damsel not needed wait for cycle.You need test kit and monitor levels to tell. To do it right you need to add as much as possible and the sunstrate and then let cycle. But to answer your question 7 to 14 days and you need to test it also.

FranktheTankTx · 01/25/2008, 10:47 PM

Since it's cured rock... you will need something to kick in some ammonia. Like a cocktail shrimp from the grocery store. That's right, I said it... a cocktail shrimp. If you had uncured rock you could just put that in. If it's really good cured rock... your cycle won't be long.

DO NOT TURN THE LIGHTS ON WHILE CYCLING YOUR TANK. Leave it completely dark. Trust me!! You will rid yourself of ALOT of algae if you do this. DO NOT put a fish or damsel in the tank to cycle. Most people hate most damsels because they are so aggressive and territorial. You'll wish you never put him in probably. Just throw the cocktail shrimp in and let it do it's thing. Test, test, test... once ammonia and nitrite hit zero... do a 20% water change and add a small clean up crew to hit some of the brown algae...(that is totally normal for it to grow). Meanwhile, be thinking of what your fish list is going to be. Add least aggressive to most aggressive fish. Something like some green chromis.. or a perc would be a good first fish. Then test, test, test... after a couple weeks, you can add another fish. Begin to add some more clean up crew too.

You'll get there!

demonsp · 01/25/2008, 10:53 PM

Its best to use main lights very little at first and add time as cycle ends. If you leave them off them use them at full time after cycle you will get another algae bloom.

FranktheTankTx · 01/25/2008, 11:02 PM

Don't use them at all while cycling. What are you lighting??? LOL!

You should have a timer... first week on for 2 hours. Next week, on for 3 hours... work your way up to 8-9 hours if you like. Fine by me. But wait until it cycles first. Trust me!!!!

I've seen cyano break out in I don't know how many tanks because they want to light their rock and sand while cycling... makes no sense!!

demonsp · 01/26/2008, 12:26 AM

Your adjusting the system to the lights.If you replace bulbs or increase the size you should also do the same by reducing and bringing up slowly.And why would you want to let cycle then wait a few more weeks for full lights they would still need to be bought up slowly.
This isnt a goldfish pond , its a very sensitive eco system that in its prior state was not available 10 yrs ago.Alot of these fish and coral came from a reef system in the ocean and the least we can do is provide the best possible chance and in most cases is easy from following the basics.

bertoni · 01/26/2008, 12:34 AM

I wouldn't dump a dead shrimp into a tank with live rock. It's not needed, and will pollute the water and possibly kill animals.

demonsp · 01/26/2008, 12:38 AM

Im up in the air about the shrimp.I used it and have way to many critters.But its much better then the damsel myth.

demonsp · 01/26/2008, 12:38 AM

Im up in the air about the shrimp.I used it and have way to many critters.But its much better then the damsel myth.

jguzzino · 01/26/2008, 12:41 AM

well what should i use to get the ammonia going

demonsp · 01/26/2008, 12:46 AM

Ammonia is not what you want but i think i know what you mean.You need Ro minumum water and proper salinity level.Enough LR and Substrate,Proper flow and skimmer (skimmer could wait a few weeks)and a good HOB media filter though its not needed. Let it cycle adding main light time slowly to reduce algea outbreaks. Whene readings drop and level then you come back and thread"cycled now what".
I used fully cured rock and LS and never really saw any cycle but still waited 6 weeks.Slow and easy are the best tools.

bertoni · 01/26/2008, 01:03 AM

The tank has live rock, so there's no need for an ammonia spike. I've set up a number of tanks that never showed ammonia, too.

Many animals that survive the dead shrimp can reproduce and build up to a large population. I'm more worried about the species that don't survive or can't reproduce.

uscharalph · 01/26/2008, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jguzzino
well what should i use to get the ammonia going

You could use a little flake fish food.

cloak · 01/26/2008, 03:00 AM

I wouldn't spend money on live rock only to put it through the ammonia , nitrite, etc process.. This is where that filter sock or sponge comes into play. At least give everything that is living a chance. Cycle the tank with some other sort of filtration before you put that live rock in.

If you know you want angels, cardinals and corydora's in a freshwater tank, why would you put them in before the tank has cycled?

IslandCrow · 01/26/2008, 03:11 AM

bertoni, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think what you're getting at is there's already a sufficient supply of nitrifying and denitrifying bacteria living on and in the rock, so there's no need to introduce ammonia to the system to get the population going.

As for cycling, even when it's not necessary, I think it's necessary. Here's what I mean by that. Even if everything should theoretically be in balance when you start the tank up (using pre-cured/cultured rock, sand, etc.), would you rather deal with any potential problems a new setup may pose with or without having to worry about a bunch of livestock. Your problem may not even be biology or chemistry related. What if you have a small, undetected leak in your plumbing that doesn't become a big leak until the tank's been up and running a couple weeks.

jguzzino · 01/26/2008, 02:08 PM

Well what I have going is the water has been running in the tank for a week now. The guy I bought my sump from had a deep sand bed in it so that has been going in my tank for a week. It has been going through the protein skimmer for a week now and a little waste has gotten in the collection cup. I bought about 70 pounds of live rock from a guy today who is tearing down his tank. Unfortunatley it has some corals on it mushrooms zoos and some hard corals he could not get off, also a bonus pistol shrimp that hitchhiked his system has been set up for 2 years. What do I do now?

bertoni · 01/26/2008, 03:26 PM

I'd wait a couple of weeks for the system to stabilize, and start adding a few snails. I'm assuming everything's in place?

jguzzino · 01/26/2008, 04:42 PM

other than the reefscaping yes

bertoni · 01/26/2008, 06:13 PM

Well, I guess I'd get the reefscaping done, and see how the parameters look after that.

jguzzino · 01/26/2008, 06:40 PM

Ok thanks for the advice

bertoni · 01/27/2008, 01:40 AM

You're welcome! Good luck!

zotzer · 01/27/2008, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jguzzino
Unfortunatley it has some corals on it mushrooms zoos and some hard corals he could not get off, also a bonus pistol shrimp that hitchhiked his system has been set up for 2 years. What do I do now?

Unfortunately???? Sounds more like a bonus to me!!!

People move/upgrade tanks all the time. How do you think they do it? They move LR from one set up to another and are off to the races.

Your rock is already cycled, and my guess is that most of those hitch hikers will survive if you keep salinity, temp and other water parameters in control. They did with mine....mushrooms, capnella, xenia, and all sorts of good critters.

Since this rock came from a live system, though, odds are you won't see any cycle at all (that is, if you got the rock from one tank to another within a couple of hours)

Have fun!!
tracy

01/25/2008, 10:31 PM	#1
jguzzino Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 76	cycling I am getting cured liverock from somebody I am wondering how long I need to let it sit in the tank before adding livestock. Also I was told to add damsels on the day I add the live rock because the fish poop feeds the live rock does anyone know about this?

01/25/2008, 10:47 PM	#3
FranktheTankTx Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 2,306	Since it's cured rock... you will need something to kick in some ammonia. Like a cocktail shrimp from the grocery store. That's right, I said it... a cocktail shrimp. If you had uncured rock you could just put that in. If it's really good cured rock... your cycle won't be long. DO NOT TURN THE LIGHTS ON WHILE CYCLING YOUR TANK. Leave it completely dark. Trust me!! You will rid yourself of ALOT of algae if you do this. DO NOT put a fish or damsel in the tank to cycle. Most people hate most damsels because they are so aggressive and territorial. You'll wish you never put him in probably. Just throw the cocktail shrimp in and let it do it's thing. Test, test, test... once ammonia and nitrite hit zero... do a 20% water change and add a small clean up crew to hit some of the brown algae...(that is totally normal for it to grow). Meanwhile, be thinking of what your fish list is going to be. Add least aggressive to most aggressive fish. Something like some green chromis.. or a perc would be a good first fish. Then test, test, test... after a couple weeks, you can add another fish. Begin to add some more clean up crew too. You'll get there! __________________ Frank the Tank "What, I thought we were in the trust tree... in the nest? Are we not?" Current Tank Info: Custom Rimless 60g (30.5"x24.5"x18.5")

01/25/2008, 11:02 PM	#5
FranktheTankTx Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 2,306	Don't use them at all while cycling. What are you lighting??? LOL! You should have a timer... first week on for 2 hours. Next week, on for 3 hours... work your way up to 8-9 hours if you like. Fine by me. But wait until it cycles first. Trust me!!!! I've seen cyano break out in I don't know how many tanks because they want to light their rock and sand while cycling... makes no sense!! __________________ Frank the Tank "What, I thought we were in the trust tree... in the nest? Are we not?" Current Tank Info: Custom Rimless 60g (30.5"x24.5"x18.5")

01/26/2008, 12:34 AM	#7
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	I wouldn't dump a dead shrimp into a tank with live rock. It's not needed, and will pollute the water and possibly kill animals. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

01/26/2008, 01:03 AM	#12
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	The tank has live rock, so there's no need for an ammonia spike. I've set up a number of tanks that never showed ammonia, too. Many animals that survive the dead shrimp can reproduce and build up to a large population. I'm more worried about the species that don't survive or can't reproduce. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

01/25/2008, 10:36 PM	#2
demonsp Moved On Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: el paso tx Posts: 7,634	Damsel not needed wait for cycle.You need test kit and monitor levels to tell. To do it right you need to add as much as possible and the sunstrate and then let cycle. But to answer your question 7 to 14 days and you need to test it also.

01/25/2008, 10:53 PM	#4
demonsp Moved On Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: el paso tx Posts: 7,634	Its best to use main lights very little at first and add time as cycle ends. If you leave them off them use them at full time after cycle you will get another algae bloom.

01/26/2008, 12:26 AM	#6
demonsp Moved On Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: el paso tx Posts: 7,634	Your adjusting the system to the lights.If you replace bulbs or increase the size you should also do the same by reducing and bringing up slowly.And why would you want to let cycle then wait a few more weeks for full lights they would still need to be bought up slowly. This isnt a goldfish pond , its a very sensitive eco system that in its prior state was not available 10 yrs ago.Alot of these fish and coral came from a reef system in the ocean and the least we can do is provide the best possible chance and in most cases is easy from following the basics.

01/26/2008, 12:38 AM	#8
demonsp Moved On Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: el paso tx Posts: 7,634	Im up in the air about the shrimp.I used it and have way to many critters.But its much better then the damsel myth.

01/26/2008, 12:41 AM	#10
jguzzino Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 76	well what should i use to get the ammonia going

01/26/2008, 12:46 AM	#11
demonsp Moved On Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: el paso tx Posts: 7,634	Ammonia is not what you want but i think i know what you mean.You need Ro minumum water and proper salinity level.Enough LR and Substrate,Proper flow and skimmer (skimmer could wait a few weeks)and a good HOB media filter though its not needed. Let it cycle adding main light time slowly to reduce algea outbreaks. Whene readings drop and level then you come back and thread"cycled now what". I used fully cured rock and LS and never really saw any cycle but still waited 6 weeks.Slow and easy are the best tools.

01/26/2008, 03:00 AM	#14
cloak Moved On Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Stockton, CA Posts: 14,854	I wouldn't spend money on live rock only to put it through the ammonia , nitrite, etc process.. This is where that filter sock or sponge comes into play. At least give everything that is living a chance. Cycle the tank with some other sort of filtration before you put that live rock in. If you know you want angels, cardinals and corydora's in a freshwater tank, why would you put them in before the tank has cycled?

01/26/2008, 03:11 AM	#15
IslandCrow Reef Monkey Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Rockledge, Fl Posts: 5,759	bertoni, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think what you're getting at is there's already a sufficient supply of nitrifying and denitrifying bacteria living on and in the rock, so there's no need to introduce ammonia to the system to get the population going. As for cycling, even when it's not necessary, I think it's necessary. Here's what I mean by that. Even if everything should theoretically be in balance when you start the tank up (using pre-cured/cultured rock, sand, etc.), would you rather deal with any potential problems a new setup may pose with or without having to worry about a bunch of livestock. Your problem may not even be biology or chemistry related. What if you have a small, undetected leak in your plumbing that doesn't become a big leak until the tank's been up and running a couple weeks. __________________ All opinions in the above message should be taken with 35 ppt salt. -Mike C. Current Tank Info: I have a reef screen saver on my phone, does that count?

01/26/2008, 02:08 PM	#16
jguzzino Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 76	Well what I have going is the water has been running in the tank for a week now. The guy I bought my sump from had a deep sand bed in it so that has been going in my tank for a week. It has been going through the protein skimmer for a week now and a little waste has gotten in the collection cup. I bought about 70 pounds of live rock from a guy today who is tearing down his tank. Unfortunatley it has some corals on it mushrooms zoos and some hard corals he could not get off, also a bonus pistol shrimp that hitchhiked his system has been set up for 2 years. What do I do now?

01/26/2008, 03:26 PM	#17
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	I'd wait a couple of weeks for the system to stabilize, and start adding a few snails. I'm assuming everything's in place? __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

01/26/2008, 04:42 PM	#18
jguzzino Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 76	other than the reefscaping yes

01/26/2008, 06:13 PM	#19
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Well, I guess I'd get the reefscaping done, and see how the parameters look after that. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

01/26/2008, 06:40 PM	#20
jguzzino Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 76	Ok thanks for the advice

01/27/2008, 01:40 AM	#21
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	You're welcome! Good luck! __________________ Jonathan Bertoni