anenomes for the reef.... carpet or BTA?

ReefEnabler · 01/31/2008, 02:44 PM

Good afternoon everybody,

I am starting a 220G reef soon, and I already have a couple specimens in a holding tank waiting for the transfer

Right now I have 2 percula clowns and 1 elegance coral.

As you can see, my clowns have started hosting in my elegance, which is not such a good thing (cute as it is). I'm doing my best to 'shoe' the clowns out of there now and then. I don't want to lose the clowns or the elegance unless I have to, so I am thinking of getting an anenome in hopes the clowns will go for it and leave mr elegance be.

What is generally considered more 'reef safe'? The carpet anenome, or the BTA? I like both of them so I'd rather choose on compatibility. Which one is more likely to harm other fish (tangs, anthias mostly will be in the tank).

I've seen some tips like "build a mini rock stack and put your anenome on top of it" to keep it from movin higher.

should an anenome be among one of the first things added, so I can make sure its found its 'happy place', before stocking with lots of coral?

lighting will be 3 x 250W mh XM10ks, and 2x140W VHO actinic

Cheers,
Ryan

sk8rreefgeek · 01/31/2008, 02:47 PM

taggin along cuz I was about to buy an elegance myself. Why is it bad that the clowns are in it?

I've heard bubble tips don't move around as much as other anemones, but I could be wrong

ReefEnabler · 01/31/2008, 02:49 PM

"Why is it bad that the clowns are in it?"

the skeleton of the elegance is a series of sharp ridges around where the polyp expands from. at daytime I don't think its so bad, but at night time the polyp isn't expanded. I have seen the clowns 'smashing' up and down on the non expanded elegance, as if to say 'wake up dude, I'm cold wheres my blanket!!'

I think thats when the main damage will occur.

ReefEnabler · 01/31/2008, 02:51 PM

oh, and if you want to get an elegance, MAKE SURE that its an australian coral. Make sure you ask the vendor and they better be positive. indos die most of the time.

also be sure to read this months reef keeping article on the elegance.

I remember reading about a certain RC sponsor who is selling aussie frags of the elegance online, but I can't seem to recall. Hopefully somebody will post it

sk8rreefgeek · 01/31/2008, 03:03 PM

thanks for the info! The elegance is at a pet shop. It looks healthy. ($40)
sorry to hog ur thread, but how long have your clowns been all-up-in-that? lol

ReefEnabler · 01/31/2008, 03:09 PM

I have had both of these guys for about 3.5 months, give or take a week.

for the first 3 months they never came near the elegance.

then a little over a week ago, they started getting friendly with the elegance, occasionally swimming through it really fast etc.

then just maybe 4-5 days ago they have been spending most of the time in there during the day, and just kinda pestering a bit at night time.

" It looks healthy. ($40)"

That is not always a good indication, as they can apparently look great and then take a turn for the worse, and be dead in a matter of days. at the very least, you need to know how long the vendor has had it, and where it came from before buying.

read this article (the one I mentioned before), as it will fill you in on what to look for:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-01/eb/index.php

sk8rreefgeek · 01/31/2008, 03:18 PM

cool man, thanks for the help.

at least this will bump ur thread haha, I'm taggin along too, as I'd like to get my clowns a nice anemone as well

good luck!

seapug · 01/31/2008, 03:34 PM

Carpets have more of a reputation for eating other creatures. The good thing is they tend to live buried in the sand and rarely move or divide. Since they live on the bottom, you need to have very strong lights to make sure they get sufficient intensity.

BTAs are great (I have a few) but they tend to climb up high and wave their tentacles in the current and rapidly multiply, so they can "take over" pretty quick.

Toddrtrex · 01/31/2008, 03:47 PM

What type of carpet are you thinking about? A Haddoni will still in the sandbed/near the sand rock interface.

For a while I had both a Haddoni and a BTA in my 75 ended up selling the BTA, was taking up too much real estate that I wanted to use for SPS, and it liked to split every once in a while. The clones liked to wander until they were happy.

ReefEnabler · 01/31/2008, 03:58 PM

to be honest I haven't learned as much as I need to about carpets yet. I don't even know all the relevant species.

are there many to choose from, or only a small number that are suitable for reefs?

is haddoni the same a saddle anenome?

Thanks a bunch for the replies everbody. I have to say at this point I am leaning towards the carpets over the BTAs.

as stated above, the lighting in my 220 will be 3 x 250W MH using XM10ks, and then 2 x 140W VHO actinics with icecap ballast.

Ryan

Toddrtrex · 01/31/2008, 04:07 PM

The 3 common hosting carpets are, gigantea, haddoni, and mertensii.

And yes, one of the common names for a Haddoni is saddle anemone. Giganteas, are hardest to keep of the 3, and prefer to be on the rocks. I can't speak about mertensii.

Some people have issues with Haddonis eating fish, in the 7+ years that I have had mine, I've only lost one fish -- yellow watchman goby. Your lighting would be great for a Haddoni. Mine is in my 75 under 2*250 DE + 2*54 T5.

Here is an older picture of my two. (( the BTA on the right side was sold. ))

ReefEnabler · 01/31/2008, 04:14 PM

so both the blue and green carpets in there are both haddoni?

hmm didn't know that. I thought blue carpets were a different species, and harder to keep?

anybody know a good link that lists the different carpets, and their species and care requirement info? I'm getting really mixed stuff from different vendor websites (not surprised).

would a carpet be able to live 1 month in a QT using less-than-awesome lighting (135 W PC???)

Toddrtrex · 01/31/2008, 04:16 PM

Yes, they are both Haddonis. I haven't done anything different between the two.

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/carpetanemones.htm

I have never QTed any of my anemones, I personally don't see the need for it.

Twz · 01/31/2008, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sk8rreefgeek
taggin along cuz I was about to buy an elegance myself. Why is it bad that the clowns are in it?

I've heard bubble tips don't move around as much as other anemones, but I could be wrong

Its Actually the other way around the BTA Moves quite a bit compared to others if it dose not the something...
i bought mine stuck it on the rock and it didnt move until my heater screwed up while waiting for a new heater (Had to order it) and trying to keep the water warm then i watched it move about as fast as my sand sifting star fish and it just moved every were!

1swtlx · 01/31/2008, 04:33 PM

+1 on Stichodactyla haddoni (carpet)

I have had mine for 6+ years and is about 18-24" in diameter on average. Always a "one spot" anenome in my case. It has seen 4 tank upgrades and has always picked one spot 1-2 days after acclimation to the new tank. I have lost 3 fish to it over the years and it was always a new fish that got a little too curious. The rest of my fish are smart enough to avoid it.
Currently resides under 2 x 250w SE 14k XM bulbs and doing well.
Have kept it under VHO's as well with success

ReefEnabler · 01/31/2008, 04:37 PM

thanks guys!! I can't wait until I get my larger tank so I can get a haddoni.

the WWM page didn't list perculas as naturally hosting with haddoni, but hey if they can figure out the elegance, I'm sure the haddoni will be a nobrainer for them. I just might stick the elegance in the refugium for a couple days if they are having a hard time saying goodbye.

sk8rreefgeek · 01/31/2008, 04:41 PM

I thought I might have been wrong on that. I didn't think a carpet would kill my YWG tho. that sucks. I'm assuming my 55g is too small for a carpet.
Any "tricks" on keeping a BT in a certain spot? is there a way to predict where they want to go? (more light, heat, or flow)
or do they just have a mind of their own?

I like to keep a lot of open swimming room

Reeftanks6 · 01/31/2008, 04:43 PM

iam interested in this as well want to get one for my clowns when the tank is setup

AquaReeferMan · 01/31/2008, 04:51 PM

I have both a carpet and a gbta in my 125g. Ive had the carpet for about 2 years and the bta for about 1.5 years. Neither one has moved once. Either one would be a good choice. Although my carpet has eaten it fair share of fish, just keep that in mind.

seapug · 01/31/2008, 04:51 PM

BTAs usually settle in a crevice with a vertical profile in good light with moderate currents. Once they find a spot they like they tend not to move unless they divide; at which point the new one will wander off to find a spot it likes, usually not too far away. Put the Nem in first and let it find a spot it likes then arrange everything else around it. Place other corals so they can be moved if needed. Also remember, a BTA thats 3 inches across when "contracted" can easily expand to 9+ inches. When they hit about 10-12 inches in diameter they usually split-- at least that's the pattern with mine.

1swtlx · 01/31/2008, 04:58 PM

Im not encouraging to do this, however my carpet was in a 55g at one time. Then i moved it to the 75g at which point it just grew more. When fully expanded my carpet could take up to 1/3 of the tank. Ive also seen one in the South Carolina aquarium a great deal larger than mine. Just my thought for haddoni is 75g mininum. 55g is just to narrow for long term husbandry

sk8rreefgeek · 01/31/2008, 05:08 PM

ya, I wouldn't want to put a carpet in my 55

thanks for all the info!

Reeftanks6 · 01/31/2008, 05:20 PM

yea thats why i do not want to put a carpet in my tank

ReefEnabler · 01/31/2008, 06:37 PM

hey guys my girlfriend found this youtube video for me, its a really cool haddoni!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=IAUbwpsWaMw

(anybody know how to include a youtube video directly on here?

WarrenG · 01/31/2008, 08:54 PM

Those carpets can get big.

I have a sebae that was bleached when I got it. I fed it a few mysis shrimp every 3-5 days and it got healthy. After about 15 months it's size has stabilized at about 12-14". I bought two tank-raised, 6-month old perculas the same day I got the anenome and within three days they went in to it and have been in it ever since.

It seems to handle moderate flow and moderate light which is at an end of my mixed reef tank. It has not moved in well over a year.

In the wilds I've seen these at only 10 feet deep moving in the surge like a Kansas wheat field.

01/31/2008, 02:44 PM	#1
ReefEnabler Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 3,760	anenomes for the reef.... carpet or BTA? Good afternoon everybody, I am starting a 220G reef soon, and I already have a couple specimens in a holding tank waiting for the transfer Right now I have 2 percula clowns and 1 elegance coral. As you can see, my clowns have started hosting in my elegance, which is not such a good thing (cute as it is). I'm doing my best to 'shoe' the clowns out of there now and then. I don't want to lose the clowns or the elegance unless I have to, so I am thinking of getting an anenome in hopes the clowns will go for it and leave mr elegance be. What is generally considered more 'reef safe'? The carpet anenome, or the BTA? I like both of them so I'd rather choose on compatibility. Which one is more likely to harm other fish (tangs, anthias mostly will be in the tank). I've seen some tips like "build a mini rock stack and put your anenome on top of it" to keep it from movin higher. should an anenome be among one of the first things added, so I can make sure its found its 'happy place', before stocking with lots of coral? lighting will be 3 x 250W mh XM10ks, and 2x140W VHO actinic Cheers, Ryan

01/31/2008, 02:47 PM	#2
sk8rreefgeek Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Lodi, California Posts: 1,352	taggin along cuz I was about to buy an elegance myself. Why is it bad that the clowns are in it? I've heard bubble tips don't move around as much as other anemones, but I could be wrong __________________ It's time for operation crazy-plan Current Tank Info: Drilled 55g, 14g sump, coralife 125 SS: mated pair of b&w misbar clowns, ywg

01/31/2008, 03:03 PM	#5
sk8rreefgeek Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Lodi, California Posts: 1,352	thanks for the info! The elegance is at a pet shop. It looks healthy. ($40) sorry to hog ur thread, but how long have your clowns been all-up-in-that? lol __________________ It's time for operation crazy-plan Current Tank Info: Drilled 55g, 14g sump, coralife 125 SS: mated pair of b&w misbar clowns, ywg

01/31/2008, 03:18 PM	#7
sk8rreefgeek Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Lodi, California Posts: 1,352	cool man, thanks for the help. at least this will bump ur thread haha, I'm taggin along too, as I'd like to get my clowns a nice anemone as well good luck! __________________ It's time for operation crazy-plan Current Tank Info: Drilled 55g, 14g sump, coralife 125 SS: mated pair of b&w misbar clowns, ywg

01/31/2008, 03:34 PM	#8
seapug Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: 4980 ft. Posts: 7,954 Blog Entries: 1	Carpets have more of a reputation for eating other creatures. The good thing is they tend to live buried in the sand and rarely move or divide. Since they live on the bottom, you need to have very strong lights to make sure they get sufficient intensity. BTAs are great (I have a few) but they tend to climb up high and wave their tentacles in the current and rapidly multiply, so they can "take over" pretty quick. __________________ insert clever saying here. Current Tank Info: 200 gallon custom Marineland DD peninsular tank. LPS dominated mixed reef. Previous 90 gallon mixed reef TOTM April 2009.

01/31/2008, 02:49 PM	#3
ReefEnabler Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 3,760	"Why is it bad that the clowns are in it?" the skeleton of the elegance is a series of sharp ridges around where the polyp expands from. at daytime I don't think its so bad, but at night time the polyp isn't expanded. I have seen the clowns 'smashing' up and down on the non expanded elegance, as if to say 'wake up dude, I'm cold wheres my blanket!!' I think thats when the main damage will occur.

01/31/2008, 02:51 PM	#4
ReefEnabler Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 3,760	oh, and if you want to get an elegance, MAKE SURE that its an australian coral. Make sure you ask the vendor and they better be positive. indos die most of the time. also be sure to read this months reef keeping article on the elegance. I remember reading about a certain RC sponsor who is selling aussie frags of the elegance online, but I can't seem to recall. Hopefully somebody will post it

01/31/2008, 03:09 PM	#6
ReefEnabler Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 3,760	I have had both of these guys for about 3.5 months, give or take a week. for the first 3 months they never came near the elegance. then a little over a week ago, they started getting friendly with the elegance, occasionally swimming through it really fast etc. then just maybe 4-5 days ago they have been spending most of the time in there during the day, and just kinda pestering a bit at night time. " It looks healthy. ($40)" That is not always a good indication, as they can apparently look great and then take a turn for the worse, and be dead in a matter of days. at the very least, you need to know how long the vendor has had it, and where it came from before buying. read this article (the one I mentioned before), as it will fill you in on what to look for: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-01/eb/index.php

01/31/2008, 03:47 PM	#9
Toddrtrex Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Carol Stream, IL Posts: 23,162	What type of carpet are you thinking about? A Haddoni will still in the sandbed/near the sand rock interface. For a while I had both a Haddoni and a BTA in my 75 ended up selling the BTA, was taking up too much real estate that I wanted to use for SPS, and it liked to split every once in a while. The clones liked to wander until they were happy. __________________ Click my name and then "visit toddrtrex's homepage" for tank pictures Current Tank Info: 210g reef and 65g reef

01/31/2008, 03:58 PM	#10
ReefEnabler Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 3,760	to be honest I haven't learned as much as I need to about carpets yet. I don't even know all the relevant species. are there many to choose from, or only a small number that are suitable for reefs? is haddoni the same a saddle anenome? Thanks a bunch for the replies everbody. I have to say at this point I am leaning towards the carpets over the BTAs. as stated above, the lighting in my 220 will be 3 x 250W MH using XM10ks, and then 2 x 140W VHO actinics with icecap ballast. Ryan

01/31/2008, 04:07 PM	#11
Toddrtrex Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Carol Stream, IL Posts: 23,162	The 3 common hosting carpets are, gigantea, haddoni, and mertensii. And yes, one of the common names for a Haddoni is saddle anemone. Giganteas, are hardest to keep of the 3, and prefer to be on the rocks. I can't speak about mertensii. Some people have issues with Haddonis eating fish, in the 7+ years that I have had mine, I've only lost one fish -- yellow watchman goby. Your lighting would be great for a Haddoni. Mine is in my 75 under 2250 DE + 254 T5. Here is an older picture of my two. (( the BTA on the right side was sold. )) __________________ Click my name and then "visit toddrtrex's homepage" for tank pictures Current Tank Info: 210g reef and 65g reef

01/31/2008, 04:14 PM	#12
ReefEnabler Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 3,760	so both the blue and green carpets in there are both haddoni? hmm didn't know that. I thought blue carpets were a different species, and harder to keep? anybody know a good link that lists the different carpets, and their species and care requirement info? I'm getting really mixed stuff from different vendor websites (not surprised). would a carpet be able to live 1 month in a QT using less-than-awesome lighting (135 W PC???)

01/31/2008, 04:16 PM	#13
Toddrtrex Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Carol Stream, IL Posts: 23,162	Yes, they are both Haddonis. I haven't done anything different between the two. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/carpetanemones.htm I have never QTed any of my anemones, I personally don't see the need for it. __________________ Click my name and then "visit toddrtrex's homepage" for tank pictures Current Tank Info: 210g reef and 65g reef

01/31/2008, 04:33 PM	#15
1swtlx Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: georgia Posts: 190	+1 on Stichodactyla haddoni (carpet) I have had mine for 6+ years and is about 18-24" in diameter on average. Always a "one spot" anenome in my case. It has seen 4 tank upgrades and has always picked one spot 1-2 days after acclimation to the new tank. I have lost 3 fish to it over the years and it was always a new fish that got a little too curious. The rest of my fish are smart enough to avoid it. Currently resides under 2 x 250w SE 14k XM bulbs and doing well. Have kept it under VHO's as well with success

01/31/2008, 04:37 PM	#16
ReefEnabler Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 3,760	thanks guys!! I can't wait until I get my larger tank so I can get a haddoni. the WWM page didn't list perculas as naturally hosting with haddoni, but hey if they can figure out the elegance, I'm sure the haddoni will be a nobrainer for them. I just might stick the elegance in the refugium for a couple days if they are having a hard time saying goodbye.

01/31/2008, 04:41 PM	#17
sk8rreefgeek Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Lodi, California Posts: 1,352	I thought I might have been wrong on that. I didn't think a carpet would kill my YWG tho. that sucks. I'm assuming my 55g is too small for a carpet. Any "tricks" on keeping a BT in a certain spot? is there a way to predict where they want to go? (more light, heat, or flow) or do they just have a mind of their own? I like to keep a lot of open swimming room __________________ It's time for operation crazy-plan Current Tank Info: Drilled 55g, 14g sump, coralife 125 SS: mated pair of b&w misbar clowns, ywg

01/31/2008, 04:43 PM	#18
Reeftanks6 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: PA Posts: 3,857	iam interested in this as well want to get one for my clowns when the tank is setup __________________ 110g Reef build in progress Current Tank Info: 110 Gallon Reef

01/31/2008, 04:51 PM	#19
AquaReeferMan Got Reef? Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Under the Sea, Pa Posts: 4,593	I have both a carpet and a gbta in my 125g. Ive had the carpet for about 2 years and the bta for about 1.5 years. Neither one has moved once. Either one would be a good choice. Although my carpet has eaten it fair share of fish, just keep that in mind. __________________ Couple SPS/Zoanthid tanks and a couple of FW planted tanks. Current Tank Info: 5 pieces of glass with some silicone and plastic frames holding them together

01/31/2008, 04:58 PM	#21
1swtlx Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: georgia Posts: 190	Im not encouraging to do this, however my carpet was in a 55g at one time. Then i moved it to the 75g at which point it just grew more. When fully expanded my carpet could take up to 1/3 of the tank. Ive also seen one in the South Carolina aquarium a great deal larger than mine. Just my thought for haddoni is 75g mininum. 55g is just to narrow for long term husbandry

01/31/2008, 05:08 PM	#22
sk8rreefgeek Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Lodi, California Posts: 1,352	ya, I wouldn't want to put a carpet in my 55 thanks for all the info! __________________ It's time for operation crazy-plan Current Tank Info: Drilled 55g, 14g sump, coralife 125 SS: mated pair of b&w misbar clowns, ywg

01/31/2008, 05:20 PM	#23
Reeftanks6 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: PA Posts: 3,857	yea thats why i do not want to put a carpet in my tank __________________ 110g Reef build in progress Current Tank Info: 110 Gallon Reef

01/31/2008, 06:37 PM	#24
ReefEnabler Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 3,760	hey guys my girlfriend found this youtube video for me, its a really cool haddoni! http://youtube.com/watch?v=IAUbwpsWaMw (anybody know how to include a youtube video directly on here?

01/31/2008, 08:54 PM	#25
WarrenG Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Sunnyvale, CA Posts: 738	Those carpets can get big. I have a sebae that was bleached when I got it. I fed it a few mysis shrimp every 3-5 days and it got healthy. After about 15 months it's size has stabilized at about 12-14". I bought two tank-raised, 6-month old perculas the same day I got the anenome and within three days they went in to it and have been in it ever since. It seems to handle moderate flow and moderate light which is at an end of my mixed reef tank. It has not moved in well over a year. In the wilds I've seen these at only 10 feet deep moving in the surge like a Kansas wheat field.