Need Help With Microbubbles

[milsaltnewbie07]

Hello everyone i just got my sum up and running , and i got tons of Microbbubles, i have tried the sponge on the return pump, and now i place them on the first chamber so when the water goes to the second one there isn't that much flow and pressure. I have a mag 7 return pump can it just be that i have to much flow. The sum is a basic 3 part sump here is a pic. Any suggestions on how to put and end to this. thanks
jorge
[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]

[milsaltnewbie07]

dang no one has advice wao

[DarG]

I use a large filter sock/bag on my drain line at the sump and on my skimmer return. I replace them with clean bags atleast 2X per week. Alot of reefers use them. Many build bubble traps in their sump. Many recommend a reduce flow rather through the sump ... 3X - 5X system volume per hour. If its not the skimmer spitting out bubbles, reducing the flow rate may be the simplest solution.

[ronhjr]

have your return pump face against the back wall, away from the baffle, looks like your return pump is facing the baffle, and Im guessing its just picking up the micro-bubbles as they come over the last baffle.

[humptrax]

how long has the plumbing been set up? with new plumbing, there will be approximately 2 weeks of microbubbles until a slime coat can build on the inside walls.

i had the same problem and it really can be a number of things...

is the water on the return pump side full of bubbles?
are you getting the "whirwind" effect where the pump is drawing water from?
what does your return piping look like? are there any restrictions (from 3/4" reduced to 1/2" on your returns)?
is there a small air leak anywhere on the return?

i remember reading in RK about how the length of the sump is important in releasing these "bubbles" out of the water back into the air. from my personal experience, my microbubble problem disappeared as the tank and its plumbing matured.

good luck. use the RC resources. if you're up late (or early), the search function works (for us poor people/cheapskates).

[milsaltnewbie07]

humptrax
A couple of microbubbles in return side,NO whirlwind effect, no restriction on pump pipe, just 3/4". Ill give it about 2 weeks like you sayd and c whats up thank you all for the comments

[MplsMan]

just an idea...can you put a gate valve on you drain line into the sump amd put just enough back flow into the line to fill it with water. dosent take much. i had to do this with mine, i have a basement sump with a 8' drop to the sump, i had a lot of air that was traveling through the drains into the sump. after doine that it eliminated the microbubbles, if you want i can take a pic of what i did.

[Paulairduck]

You never want to impede the flow coming from the tank (DRAIN),only in special circumstances like the one above with a 8 ft drop, that flow can be controlled with a valve on the discharge of the pump, microbubbles are usually caused by too much flow. Also make sure you use the foam strainer that came with the mag and clean it regularly. For you fuge you only need 200-300 gph to get the chaeto to thrive. Use powerheads or closed loops to maximize flow in the tank.

[MplsMan]

thats what i thought too, but if i open up the drains there is more bubbles then you can imagine, from the air being sucked in and the water traveling 8', so what would your advice be on a solution. i dont want to steer anyone in the wrong direction, this is just what people have told me to do.

[Lucky-rc]

filter socks at your drain ends will cure your problem. You can make your own with craft felt from JoAnn fabrics or any craft store.
If you make them they will cost less than .60 cents each.
I have huge flow going into my sump and I have to double them up but no bubbles what ever, and superb filteration.
Good luck
Lucky

[zachofalltrades]

I just set up a 30 gallon long as a sump/fuge, and I have no filtration material whatsoever. I am having microbubbles, but I can tell plain as day that mine is from the return pump sucking in bumbles that are made from the waterfall effect in the last chamber. The chamber the drain line returns to is filled with so many bubbles I have to cover it, and remove the cover once every couple of days to clean because it is it's own skimmer lol...

But my fuge right after that is clear because I made a baffle out of two pieces of glass. If I had to critique the sump design there though, I would add a second piece of glass to the left of the first piece, that sits about 1" off the bottom to make the water go down then up to the next chamber, and another piece to the left of the other glass divider about 4-5" from the bottom so you can put more water in your system, still have good turnover, and the bubbles have more turns to make. I have no bubbles if I fill mine up enough.

[sjm817]

What is the water level? The first pic looks OK, but the 2nd and the diagram show a large drop to the fuge level which would be a problem. How big is the sump?

A filter sock is also a good idea either way.

[DarG]

Filter socks are great if you change them out regularly. I never used one on the old system but I do on this one. The sump stays debris and detritus free, it traps excess food or waste that goes down the overflow which never hurts and it kills all microbubbles. They do seem to slightly reduce the amount of skimmate produced by the skimmer but this has got to be because the sock is pulling out some of the organics that the skimmer normally would. Not a bad thing that I can see. But you have to replace them with clean ones frequently. They last a long time, you can wash them. Im still using all my original socks from over a year ago. 100 micron polyester felt type. Make your own or buy for 5 or 6 bucks eack or less in bulk. I have about 16 or so that I rotate. I use two at a time, one on drain and one on skimmer return.

[sjm817]

My exp with socks is they have made my skimmers work better. Cant say that I understand why. Maybe the reduction in turbulence in the sump.

[DarG]

Originally posted by sjm817
My exp with socks is they have made my skimmers work better. Cant say that I understand why. Maybe the reduction in turbulence in the sump.

Maybe the reduction of microbubbles in the water. That would make sense possibly for an in sump needlewheel skimmer. Or maybe any skimmer if the microbubbles are severe enough to reduce the water flow of the feed pump enough to effect performance. Just taking guesses here. Normally it would make more sense for the skimmer to skim a little less becuase the sock would remove some organics. This is my experience anyway and that of others when I asked the question before I first started using the sock. But every situation is different as well as everyones experiences.

[saltwater2642]

I'd also put in another baffel on the drain side so water flows over the baffel down under another baffel then over into the refugium. as well as a sock.

[sjm817]

Originally posted by DarG
Maybe the reduction of microbubbles in the water. That would make sense possibly for an in sump needlewheel skimmer. Or maybe any skimmer if the microbubbles are severe enough to reduce the water flow of the feed pump enough to effect performance. Just taking guesses here. Normally it would make more sense for the skimmer to skim a little less becuase the sock would remove some organics. This is my experience anyway and that of others when I asked the question before I first started using the sock. But every situation is different as well as everyones experiences.

I had bubble towers without the socks, so no MB either way. Both the ER NW skimmer and the ATI MW skimmer worked better. I also assumed the socks would take out some of what the skimmer would and see a reduction, but ii has not been the case. It pulls out more, but there are less particles in the skimate. I think it is due to the reduced turbulence and the way the way flows evenly through a sock like a fine screen. This would not apply to an overflow fed skimmer, and possibly not a pump fed external.