Bubbles from overflow in sump

customdusty · 02/21/2008, 09:54 PM

I just got my new tank filled and was testing all of my plumbing and I noticed that I am getting tons of bubbles in my sump coming from the overflow. It is hideously loud and I can't seem to figure out how to stop it without stopping flow back to the tank.

Tank is reef ready with 1" bulkhead/overflow which goes into the sump. The bubbles are coming directly out of the pipe that is submerged in the sump. Return pump is 1000 gph and when running wide open, the bubbles are huge and splashing everywhere. When I turn the return pump down to stop the bubbles, you can barely feel any water coming out of the returns inside the tank - almost no water movement at all.

When I look into the overflow built in the tank, the water goes up and down in cycles, but very fast. It goes up almost 2 inches, then drops 2 inches real fast, with tons of noise and bubbles bursting down below. The bubbles are so intense that the hose and pipes shake like crazy.

Hopefully I am just a newb and this is an easy fix.

Thanks

toeside · 02/21/2008, 10:02 PM

A Durso standpipe is often used to help with the noise.

For trapping the bubbles, some baffles in the sump may help

customdusty · 02/21/2008, 10:13 PM

I am already using a durso standpipe. Below the bulkhead I am using flex tube which I have tried bending in a loop back up, and other directions.

The bubbles are happening in like huge burps, and then after through my baffles and sponge bubble traps, no bubbles are making it back into the tank.

The sound is just awful, I can't have a conversation in the room or watch TV with the tank running. Hard wood floors and tall ceilings amplify it even worse.

asm481 · 02/21/2008, 10:47 PM

you need the hole in the top of your durso to be a bit bigger if it is surging. I would not put a loop in the drain line. run it straight down with a tee on the end just below water level in sump. Try this first and your splashing may be gone. Next step would be a filter sock in the sump but they need to be cleaned like 3 times a week at least.

cdbias2 · 02/22/2008, 10:34 AM

Pics could help.

customdusty · 02/22/2008, 11:18 AM

I searched wtewebmedia and found that this is a fairly common problem. suggestions are to put in a t below the surface in the sump... does anybody have any pictures of this setup?

smalls383 · 02/22/2008, 11:39 AM

I agree with the post above....you need a larger hole in your cap for your standpipe. I had the same problem...my water would rise in the overflow bow about 1/2 ince, then it would sound like someone flushed a toilet as the water lowered. Happened about every minute.

You need to test fit a bunch of different holes into that standpipe.....then it will find a median

Toddrtrex · 02/22/2008, 12:25 PM

What I did when I was having that issue was make sure that the inflow pipe was half way above the water level in the sump. It allows the air to escape without the burping sounds that you are getting.

This is how mine is set up.

customdusty · 02/22/2008, 07:31 PM

My sump is an AGA megaflow so the drain into the sump from the overflow is closed and I can't get access to put the T in. I'm limited to working with the standpipe and maybe the hose before it gets to the drain into the sump.

Knowing this, I opened up the air hole at the top of the stand pipe incrementally with my drill bit set and noticed that each time I opened it up more, the less significant the rise and drop of the water in the overflow was, resulting in a lesser "surge" of bubbles into the sump. Consequentally, the more I opened the air hole, the more the gurgling/draining sound from the standpipe grew. I reached a point where I felt that I could live with the occasional draining sound as opposed to the full blown hot tub noise, maybe with perhaps the pursuit of some sound deadening materials moving forward.

I will keep people posted on how I resolve this.

Thanks for the replies.

toeside · 02/23/2008, 09:24 AM

Hmmm...

The Durso guy says to use a 1-1/4" standpipe for a 1" drain as a 1" pipe gives poor results. If yours is 1", maybe fit it up with a 1-1/4".

It sees to me that the pulsating comes from either, 1) more flow than your drain plumbing can handle, or, 2) some kind of blockage.

Are there any Ls or sharp bends you can take out? Any sections of too narrow pipe or hose you could replace with wider? Any junk like rock rubble in the drain? Could the opening in the bulkhead be too narrow, maybe replace it with one with a wider inside diameter?

Man, I'm hating that you're having this problem... just throwing out some ideas. Any chance you could post a couple of pictures?

toeside · 03/10/2008, 06:52 AM

I battled the same noise issues yesterday, thought I'd pass on what worked for me:

1) a small-ish vent hole in the cap at the top of the downpipe
2) a shorter downpipe
3) a taper to smaller diameter hose at the end of the downpipe
4) carefully adjusting the return flow with a diverting "bleeder" valve.

You did say you may not be able to get to parts of your system, so these may not all work for you.

I posted a page with pictures here about the noise adjustments I made.

Good luck with it. Keep us posted...

jallen100 · 03/10/2008, 07:34 AM

I am having the same surging issue and and the water entering my sump is pretty powerful. Same toilet flushing sound also. You can actually here the water surging through my pipes. I have a Durso overflow on each side of my tank with holes in the top of both of them. 2" pipe all the way from the Durso to my sump, and it just runs straight in to my sump. Any ideas? I have not heard anyone talking about pipe this large so this is why I ask.

customdusty · 03/10/2008, 08:09 AM

Update:

I have changed nothing since opening up the vent at the top of my stand pipe and slowly over the last week, the surging began subsiding. I think it may have had something to do with all of the plumbing being brand new and now everything is broken in and all the films on the pipes are gone.. My ball valve is wide open and the pump is pulling as much as it can, no toilet flushes any more. I am left with just the constant sound of the draining water from the stand pipe, which really isn't too bad and we are quite used to it already. I'm not considering trying to close up the hole I opened on the stand pipe to perhaps lower that sound which I made worse.

My suggestion for people with new systems that are experiencing this problem: Let it run for a few weeks or a month, allow time for things to break in and settle, then devise an action plan.

Who knows, maybe after a while you will be like my fiance who now wants the surging sound back because it sounded like waves crashing on the beach. haha.

02/21/2008, 09:54 PM	#1
customdusty Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Geneva, IL Posts: 1,095	Bubbles from overflow in sump I just got my new tank filled and was testing all of my plumbing and I noticed that I am getting tons of bubbles in my sump coming from the overflow. It is hideously loud and I can't seem to figure out how to stop it without stopping flow back to the tank. Tank is reef ready with 1" bulkhead/overflow which goes into the sump. The bubbles are coming directly out of the pipe that is submerged in the sump. Return pump is 1000 gph and when running wide open, the bubbles are huge and splashing everywhere. When I turn the return pump down to stop the bubbles, you can barely feel any water coming out of the returns inside the tank - almost no water movement at all. When I look into the overflow built in the tank, the water goes up and down in cycles, but very fast. It goes up almost 2 inches, then drops 2 inches real fast, with tons of noise and bubbles bursting down below. The bubbles are so intense that the hose and pipes shake like crazy. Hopefully I am just a newb and this is an easy fix. Thanks

02/22/2008, 12:25 PM	#8
Toddrtrex Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Carol Stream, IL Posts: 23,162	What I did when I was having that issue was make sure that the inflow pipe was half way above the water level in the sump. It allows the air to escape without the burping sounds that you are getting. This is how mine is set up. __________________ Click my name and then "visit toddrtrex's homepage" for tank pictures Current Tank Info: 210g reef and 65g reef

02/21/2008, 10:02 PM	#2
toeside Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Marietta, Georgia Posts: 42	A Durso standpipe is often used to help with the noise. For trapping the bubbles, some baffles in the sump may help

02/21/2008, 10:13 PM	#3
customdusty Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Geneva, IL Posts: 1,095	I am already using a durso standpipe. Below the bulkhead I am using flex tube which I have tried bending in a loop back up, and other directions. The bubbles are happening in like huge burps, and then after through my baffles and sponge bubble traps, no bubbles are making it back into the tank. The sound is just awful, I can't have a conversation in the room or watch TV with the tank running. Hard wood floors and tall ceilings amplify it even worse.

02/21/2008, 10:47 PM	#4
asm481 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Kenosha Wisconsin Posts: 593	you need the hole in the top of your durso to be a bit bigger if it is surging. I would not put a loop in the drain line. run it straight down with a tee on the end just below water level in sump. Try this first and your splashing may be gone. Next step would be a filter sock in the sump but they need to be cleaned like 3 times a week at least.

02/22/2008, 10:34 AM	#5
cdbias2 Appalachian Reef Society Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Alum Creek, WV (No more) Posts: 1,433	Pics could help.

02/22/2008, 11:18 AM	#6
customdusty Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Geneva, IL Posts: 1,095	I searched wtewebmedia and found that this is a fairly common problem. suggestions are to put in a t below the surface in the sump... does anybody have any pictures of this setup?

02/22/2008, 11:39 AM	#7
smalls383 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Saratoga, CA Posts: 483	I agree with the post above....you need a larger hole in your cap for your standpipe. I had the same problem...my water would rise in the overflow bow about 1/2 ince, then it would sound like someone flushed a toilet as the water lowered. Happened about every minute. You need to test fit a bunch of different holes into that standpipe.....then it will find a median

02/22/2008, 07:31 PM	#9
customdusty Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Geneva, IL Posts: 1,095	My sump is an AGA megaflow so the drain into the sump from the overflow is closed and I can't get access to put the T in. I'm limited to working with the standpipe and maybe the hose before it gets to the drain into the sump. Knowing this, I opened up the air hole at the top of the stand pipe incrementally with my drill bit set and noticed that each time I opened it up more, the less significant the rise and drop of the water in the overflow was, resulting in a lesser "surge" of bubbles into the sump. Consequentally, the more I opened the air hole, the more the gurgling/draining sound from the standpipe grew. I reached a point where I felt that I could live with the occasional draining sound as opposed to the full blown hot tub noise, maybe with perhaps the pursuit of some sound deadening materials moving forward. I will keep people posted on how I resolve this. Thanks for the replies.

02/23/2008, 09:24 AM	#10
toeside Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Marietta, Georgia Posts: 42	Hmmm... The Durso guy says to use a 1-1/4" standpipe for a 1" drain as a 1" pipe gives poor results. If yours is 1", maybe fit it up with a 1-1/4". It sees to me that the pulsating comes from either, 1) more flow than your drain plumbing can handle, or, 2) some kind of blockage. Are there any Ls or sharp bends you can take out? Any sections of too narrow pipe or hose you could replace with wider? Any junk like rock rubble in the drain? Could the opening in the bulkhead be too narrow, maybe replace it with one with a wider inside diameter? Man, I'm hating that you're having this problem... just throwing out some ideas. Any chance you could post a couple of pictures?

03/10/2008, 06:52 AM	#11
toeside Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Marietta, Georgia Posts: 42	I battled the same noise issues yesterday, thought I'd pass on what worked for me: 1) a small-ish vent hole in the cap at the top of the downpipe 2) a shorter downpipe 3) a taper to smaller diameter hose at the end of the downpipe 4) carefully adjusting the return flow with a diverting "bleeder" valve. You did say you may not be able to get to parts of your system, so these may not all work for you. I posted a page with pictures here about the noise adjustments I made. Good luck with it. Keep us posted...

03/10/2008, 07:34 AM	#12
jallen100 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Blacklick, Ohio Posts: 220	I am having the same surging issue and and the water entering my sump is pretty powerful. Same toilet flushing sound also. You can actually here the water surging through my pipes. I have a Durso overflow on each side of my tank with holes in the top of both of them. 2" pipe all the way from the Durso to my sump, and it just runs straight in to my sump. Any ideas? I have not heard anyone talking about pipe this large so this is why I ask.

03/10/2008, 08:09 AM	#13
customdusty Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Geneva, IL Posts: 1,095	Update: I have changed nothing since opening up the vent at the top of my stand pipe and slowly over the last week, the surging began subsiding. I think it may have had something to do with all of the plumbing being brand new and now everything is broken in and all the films on the pipes are gone.. My ball valve is wide open and the pump is pulling as much as it can, no toilet flushes any more. I am left with just the constant sound of the draining water from the stand pipe, which really isn't too bad and we are quite used to it already. I'm not considering trying to close up the hole I opened on the stand pipe to perhaps lower that sound which I made worse. My suggestion for people with new systems that are experiencing this problem: Let it run for a few weeks or a month, allow time for things to break in and settle, then devise an action plan. Who knows, maybe after a while you will be like my fiance who now wants the surging sound back because it sounded like waves crashing on the beach. haha.