Piping sump across the house

wiscsaltwater · 03/16/2008, 08:31 PM

Im considering Moving my main display tank to the living room but what i want to do is pipe the tank to a sump across the house and in the basement. (approx 40 feet of piping 1 way) I have a workshop area down in that corner where id like to set up a big sump/refugium along with some fry tanks and culture tanks, basically have all my equipment in this 1 room in the basement and piped up to a display tank across the house.

Anyone see any issues with a system like this other than the obvious extra piping and maybe a little extra wear and tear on pumps pumping the water farther?

gillesec · 03/16/2008, 08:47 PM

This is possible, but you are more then likely going to have to have a pump with a good deal of force. Horizontal piping doesn't typically reduce the pressure, but the distance you are traveling vertically and the amount of bending will affect it greatly. You will need to get an approx height measurement (error on the high side) and you want to find the route with the lowest amount of 90 degree turns and then do research on the pump that will give you the GPH that you want at the specific height. The pump may be rated at 1200 GHH, but at a 10' head you are at half that.

Curve · 03/16/2008, 08:57 PM

I saw a pump the other day that had up to 85 ft. of head pumping ability. It was rated at round 3500 gph at 1 foot.

jh2pizza · 03/16/2008, 09:02 PM

Sounds like the exact same thing I am dong currently. I am going down to the basement and total horiz l is 40' and 12' vertical. There is a head loss calculator on the home page here. I am planning on using either a hammerhead or my current Pan World 200 with 2 - 1.5" drains.(one only for back up, the other a siphon) and a 2" return with spaflex to reduce the head due to bends and fittings.

jh2pizza · 03/17/2008, 06:32 AM

Dbl post

Capt_Cully · 03/17/2008, 07:00 AM

I think it makes a difference what you plan to keep in the display. I see that its a 550!!!! If it's an sps dominated tank you're going to need one heck of a return pipe.

We all know you'll need a huge pump to get water from your sump to your display. How do you plan to get water out of your tank and across 40 horizontal feet. Are you also going to run a booster pump on outgoing water???

jh2pizza · 03/17/2008, 07:05 AM

No booster pump would be needed. It would be no different than you house plumbing. As far as the 550!!!, I an not sure what you are referring to. We are also using a closed loop with 3 sea swirls for circ.

Capt_Cully · 03/17/2008, 07:34 AM

The post at the top says the guy's got a 550.

I'm a little confused. In my house I only have to worry about the water coming in and draining out. I don't have to worry about looping the same water thru my house.

My point was that water comes out of the back or bottom, or thru a tanks over flow right? Then it has to go thru the floor an across 40 HORIZONTAL

Capt_Cully · 03/17/2008, 07:37 AM

sorry, horizontal feet. I mean I'm just not seeing how it's going to make that traverse without some help. If it's graded and gradual, I could see it. But do you want there to be piping crossing your basement in different steps, or would you want to run it across the ceiling, or along the floor. I would think you'd need a booster pump to get it along the horizontal plane.

Am I makin sense or just babbling?

kzickovich · 03/17/2008, 07:40 AM

My lfs told me that 10 feet horz. is = to one foot vert. head loss. I'm doing the same thing right now. Mine is going 20 horz. and about ten vert. Look into the sequence pumps for running it.

Capt_Cully · 03/17/2008, 07:58 AM

So you wouldn't lose that much then over 40 feet then I guess.

I definitely agree with the sequence pump. You'll still need lots of juice. You're also going to have a considerable amount of water in the piping. If you shut off water or lose power. All the water contained in the piping will go into the sump. Make sure you have the extra volume available in the sump and a check valve on the pumps outgoing line as well!

fightingobblers · 03/17/2008, 10:06 AM

Assuming 1 in return and 1.5 inch drain, you'll need a little over 5 gallons of reserve room in the sump for the pipes to drain in a power outage

jh2pizza · 03/17/2008, 11:51 AM

You should play with the return pipe calculations before going with a 1" pipe. You will greatly reduce your flow.

Roy G. Biv · 03/17/2008, 12:03 PM

Measure out the distance exactly and play with this.

http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/hlc2.php

I used 1.5" for the return and 2" for the drain. I use a mag 50 (5000gph) supplying multiple tanks.

jakaufman · 03/17/2008, 01:16 PM

great little head-loss tool there, thanks for the link

03/16/2008, 08:31 PM	#1
wiscsaltwater Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 429	Piping sump across the house Im considering Moving my main display tank to the living room but what i want to do is pipe the tank to a sump across the house and in the basement. (approx 40 feet of piping 1 way) I have a workshop area down in that corner where id like to set up a big sump/refugium along with some fry tanks and culture tanks, basically have all my equipment in this 1 room in the basement and piped up to a display tank across the house. Anyone see any issues with a system like this other than the obvious extra piping and maybe a little extra wear and tear on pumps pumping the water farther?

03/16/2008, 08:57 PM	#3
Curve Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Farmerville, Louisiana Posts: 652	I saw a pump the other day that had up to 85 ft. of head pumping ability. It was rated at round 3500 gph at 1 foot. __________________ If you don't take some meds, you're going to burn out of this hobby everytime a shrimp farts. Current Tank Info: 210 aggresive, 3 gallon led build

03/16/2008, 09:02 PM	#4
jh2pizza Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: zanesville, ohio Posts: 3,439	Sounds like the exact same thing I am dong currently. I am going down to the basement and total horiz l is 40' and 12' vertical. There is a head loss calculator on the home page here. I am planning on using either a hammerhead or my current Pan World 200 with 2 - 1.5" drains.(one only for back up, the other a siphon) and a 2" return with spaflex to reduce the head due to bends and fittings. __________________ Joe and Jeni Friends don't give Friends kenya trees! Current Tank Info: Oceanic 180 in wall, 100 sump, Geo Kalk Reactor, Tunze 9415 skimmer, Geo Media Reactors, Geo 624 CA Reactor

03/17/2008, 06:32 AM	#5
jh2pizza Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: zanesville, ohio Posts: 3,439	Dbl post __________________ Joe and Jeni Friends don't give Friends kenya trees! Current Tank Info: Oceanic 180 in wall, 100 sump, Geo Kalk Reactor, Tunze 9415 skimmer, Geo Media Reactors, Geo 624 CA Reactor

03/17/2008, 07:00 AM	#6
Capt_Cully Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Syracuse, NY Posts: 13,574	I think it makes a difference what you plan to keep in the display. I see that its a 550!!!! If it's an sps dominated tank you're going to need one heck of a return pipe. We all know you'll need a huge pump to get water from your sump to your display. How do you plan to get water out of your tank and across 40 horizontal feet. Are you also going to run a booster pump on outgoing water??? __________________ People say cars are a bad investment. Those people don't have reef tanks. Current Tank Info: 120, Radion Gen 2 Pro x 2

03/16/2008, 08:47 PM	#2
gillesec Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 116	This is possible, but you are more then likely going to have to have a pump with a good deal of force. Horizontal piping doesn't typically reduce the pressure, but the distance you are traveling vertically and the amount of bending will affect it greatly. You will need to get an approx height measurement (error on the high side) and you want to find the route with the lowest amount of 90 degree turns and then do research on the pump that will give you the GPH that you want at the specific height. The pump may be rated at 1200 GHH, but at a 10' head you are at half that.

03/17/2008, 07:05 AM	#7
jh2pizza Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: zanesville, ohio Posts: 3,439	No booster pump would be needed. It would be no different than you house plumbing. As far as the 550!!!, I an not sure what you are referring to. We are also using a closed loop with 3 sea swirls for circ. __________________ Joe and Jeni Friends don't give Friends kenya trees! Current Tank Info: Oceanic 180 in wall, 100 sump, Geo Kalk Reactor, Tunze 9415 skimmer, Geo Media Reactors, Geo 624 CA Reactor

03/17/2008, 07:34 AM	#8
Capt_Cully Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Syracuse, NY Posts: 13,574	The post at the top says the guy's got a 550. I'm a little confused. In my house I only have to worry about the water coming in and draining out. I don't have to worry about looping the same water thru my house. My point was that water comes out of the back or bottom, or thru a tanks over flow right? Then it has to go thru the floor an across 40 HORIZONTAL __________________ People say cars are a bad investment. Those people don't have reef tanks. Current Tank Info: 120, Radion Gen 2 Pro x 2

03/17/2008, 07:37 AM	#9
Capt_Cully Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Syracuse, NY Posts: 13,574	sorry, horizontal feet. I mean I'm just not seeing how it's going to make that traverse without some help. If it's graded and gradual, I could see it. But do you want there to be piping crossing your basement in different steps, or would you want to run it across the ceiling, or along the floor. I would think you'd need a booster pump to get it along the horizontal plane. Am I makin sense or just babbling? __________________ People say cars are a bad investment. Those people don't have reef tanks. Current Tank Info: 120, Radion Gen 2 Pro x 2

03/17/2008, 07:40 AM	#10
kzickovich Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Zion Il Posts: 959	My lfs told me that 10 feet horz. is = to one foot vert. head loss. I'm doing the same thing right now. Mine is going 20 horz. and about ten vert. Look into the sequence pumps for running it. __________________ Ken Current Tank Info: 90 Gal mixed reef 55 Gallon basement pump up Sump 25 Gal fuge 2 Mp40 DIY led light fixture Bubble King Mini 200 Gen2 skimmer BRS Duel reactor

03/17/2008, 07:58 AM	#11
Capt_Cully Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Syracuse, NY Posts: 13,574	So you wouldn't lose that much then over 40 feet then I guess. I definitely agree with the sequence pump. You'll still need lots of juice. You're also going to have a considerable amount of water in the piping. If you shut off water or lose power. All the water contained in the piping will go into the sump. Make sure you have the extra volume available in the sump and a check valve on the pumps outgoing line as well! __________________ People say cars are a bad investment. Those people don't have reef tanks. Current Tank Info: 120, Radion Gen 2 Pro x 2

03/17/2008, 10:06 AM	#12
fightingobblers Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 204	Assuming 1 in return and 1.5 inch drain, you'll need a little over 5 gallons of reserve room in the sump for the pipes to drain in a power outage __________________ It's not worth doing, unless you do it right! Current Tank Info: For Sale

03/17/2008, 11:51 AM	#13
jh2pizza Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: zanesville, ohio Posts: 3,439	You should play with the return pipe calculations before going with a 1" pipe. You will greatly reduce your flow. __________________ Joe and Jeni Friends don't give Friends kenya trees! Current Tank Info: Oceanic 180 in wall, 100 sump, Geo Kalk Reactor, Tunze 9415 skimmer, Geo Media Reactors, Geo 624 CA Reactor

03/17/2008, 12:03 PM	#14
Roy G. Biv Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: New Jersey Posts: 3,646	Measure out the distance exactly and play with this. http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/hlc2.php I used 1.5" for the return and 2" for the drain. I use a mag 50 (5000gph) supplying multiple tanks.

03/17/2008, 01:16 PM	#15
jakaufman Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Cleveland, OH Posts: 288	great little head-loss tool there, thanks for the link __________________ 34g Mixed Reef